patrick.net

Be sure to thank her for me.

I sense tension in the air, at least for a few more weeks. Dad probably took out a nice Heloc on a depreciating 'asset' and is not only underwater, but saddled with his spoiled actress-to-be.
If she's in L.A., have her check out 'Central Casting' on Flower, in Burbank. At least she'd be acting and get 80.00 a day. Just a thought--

Is her dad a union worker or something?

Nomograph says

I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. Even in high school I was able to hustle up better than minimum wage.
Good for her. Settling for rock bottom is nothing to be proud of, and it's good to hold yourself to high standards.

Is zero wage better then minimum wage?

Nomograph says

I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. Even in high school I was able to hustle up better than minimum wage.

That's fine, if you possess the traits to effectively do so.
Otherwise it's like if she refuses to so Extra work, because she's holding out for a staring role. i.e. delusional.

Sounds like a spoiled brat to me. Dad should cut off funding for her and see how fast she gets a job.

I too worked many relatively low paying jobs when in college and earlier, but only one of the many jobs was minimum wage, and that was a part time job at an animal hospital when I was in high school.

Holding out for something better than minimum wage isn't delusional. Waiting tables pays at least twice minimum wage, at a good restaurant, maybe five times minimum wage, or more. Not that it isn't fairly intense work ( you know if you've ever done it).

I agree that she sounds a bit spoiled, but it might not even be quite the truth. For example what if there was one or two particular minimum wage job she didn't want to do, and the story became that she wouldn't do any minimum wage jobs ?

zzyzzx says

Sounds like a spoiled brat to me. Dad should cut off funding for her and see how fast she gets a job.

The judge says "you have to pay". Dad and Mom have been divorced for a number of years. My guess is that he would have paid for something more senseable (a real University) but not for a profit making acting school.

My "favorite" part-time job between semesters? Working in a 7UP bottling plant. Pure hard manual labor!

My GPA skyrocked the following semester! Did NOT want to that for a living ever again!!!

jvolstad says

My "favorite" part-time job between semesters? Working in a 7UP bottling plant. Pure hard manual labor!

My GPA skyrocked the following semester! Did NOT want to that for a living ever again!!!

I used to do construction, waited tables and delivered pizza. Did some random odd jobs I could find. That did it for me too.

But my folks weren't supporting me like the subject in the story, which is probably why I had to learn to make it on my own. As long as someone is paying the bill there is usually no real motivation to change.

Heh, I remember having a similar conversation with my father the summer after my junior year of high school. Its a shock to learn how little the world in general cares about your personal comfort level when you've been surrounded by a loving family who take care of everything your whole life. Give the kid a break, she'll learn. And I hope things work out for her; its an awful time to be entering the job market.

I wouldn't work for minimum wage either unless I was starving and homeless. Judging this girl based solely on that fact is pretty stupid, spoiled brat or not. If everyone shared her sentiment, perhaps minimum wage wouldn't be so disgustingly low.

jvolstad says

This girl is trying to find part-time employment over the summer, but refuses to consider any minimum wage jobs.

This isn't really a good standard. Even a bagger/cashier job at a supermarket typically pays more than minimum wage. Are you saying she refuses to scrape the bottom of the barrel? If so, good for her.

Almost all college campus jobs pay more than minimum wage too. I know plenty of people who have worked "low wage" jobs while a student, but I know very few who worked for minimum wage unless they worked at McDonald's or Taco Bell.

I've never worked for minimum wage either when I was in school I did the math and found that after buying lunch, transportation expenses, taxes, etc. I would basically be working for free.

I worked for cheap when I was in high school. Want me to walk next door and push your mower around using your gas? Sure, if you throw in a sandwich and a drink.

Oh wait, you want me to drive across town and use my own mower and gas? Screw that.

I did actually take some part-time low-wage work in 2001 when I got laid off, and I regretted it. A huge timesink to barely scrape by that I later realized I should have bypassed. I didn't have family to support at the time should have found some other way to make it by until I got a real gig. I realize many here think it's perfectly acceptable to ask another person to waste large chunks of their lifespan on meaningless tasks for a pittance, and this is a crying shame.

Now the flipside of this is why an "acting school" cost $50K and why parents agreed to fund that. They must think there's a payoff, and if they do fine that's their business and they should stop grousing.

Nomograph says

jvolstad says

College Student refuses minimum wage jobs

I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. Even in high school I was able to hustle up better than minimum wage.

Good for her. Settling for rock bottom is nothing to be proud of, and it's good to hold yourself to high standards.

EMan says

Is her dad a union worker or something?

I know quite a few union workers. They are all poor to lower middle class, are lifelong apartment renters, drive beat up cars, and have basically zero career growth opportunities. How crappy is your life that you are so jealous of them?

Let other pens dwell on guilt and misery -- Jane Austen

I'd think you should know some school teachers, (which in CA are unionized, as we all know). Are they "lifelong apartment renters, drive beat up cars, and have basically zero career growth opportunities"?

Fisk says

Are they "lifelong apartment renters, drive beat up cars, and have basically zero career growth opportunities"?

Of course not, your way up there making 70K a year and living in the lap of luxury as a teacher in California (that is after doing all the additional classes and the 10 years that it would take you to get WAY up to that 70k level.

It's the big time. Easy money.

shrekgrinch says

Rouxben says

I wouldn't work for minimum wage either unless I was starving and homeless.

That's the point.

I think it is exactly the point. We humans learn through experiences. When we are permanently surrounded by comforts we forget just how hard someone had to work to get to that point and no longer appreciate it.

In our society way too many just became lazy and complacent, like union workers, I see people who would rather sit on government hand out with no shame while refusing work that will pay well enough.

Nomograph says

I've never worked for minimum wage in my life. Even in high school I was able to hustle up better than minimum wage.

Good for her. Settling for rock bottom is nothing to be proud of, and it's good to hold yourself to high standards.

You have no problem mocking and belittling people who are struggling to do the right thing and make ends meet, unless they're in a union of course.

Like a clergy refusing charity for those that don't convert, you'd sooner spit on your fellow man than see him succeed by his own free will. People like you are why I have no faith in humanity.

Don't preach about responsibility to someone who is willing to work for minimum wage when your own self-deserving ass would admittedly be taking hand-outs from the taxpayers.

klarek says

You have no problem mocking and belittling people who are struggling to do the right thing and make ends meet, unless they're in a union of course.

wtf are you talking about??? You're the one who comes on here preaching, mocking, and belittling. Not Nomo.

tatupu70 says

You're the one who comes on here preaching, mocking, and belittling. Not Nomo.

Practically every thread he chimes in on contains a message along the lines of "you need to stop being angry, stop watching Fox News, and stop blaming others for your misery." The offense he takes at people calling out the absurd b.s. going on today is hilarious, but his sermons are insulting. Lucky for him that you're always on his toes and ready to kiss his ass when people call him out for his sanctimonious b.s. FFS, he's mocking people for working for minimum wage. It doesn't get much lower than that.

Nomograph says

I don't know where you people get these fantasies about teachers raking in high salaries...it's complete nonsense.

It's not the salaries that are huge, it's the benefits. When you figure in the value of their lavish pensions and health benefits, you have to about double their actual salary to make a comparison to private industry.

zzyzzx says

It's not the salaries that are huge, it's the benefits. When you figure in the value of their lavish pensions and health benefits, you have to about double their actual salary to make a comparison to private industry.

Lavish? I must remind myself that if by some miracle I live long enough to collect some sort of government retirement, to invite you over. We'll have tea, you in your cheap HMO wheelchair me in my gold-plated hospital bed. Then we can reminisce about how people in government employ were once upon a time promised maybe slightly better benefits than private industry to compensate for the fact that the pay sucked and so did the working conditions, and oh yeah no bonuses or stock options tossed around when times were good. Then Lucy pulled the football away and Charlie Brown hit the ground and was disappointed again. Oh the gold plating will turn out to be gold spray paint.

This thread is useless without pics of the student in question.

Vicente says

Lavish? I must remind myself that if by some miracle I live long enough to collect some sort of government retirement, to invite you over. We'll have tea, you in your cheap HMO wheelchair me in my gold-plated hospital bed. Then we can reminisce about how people in government employ were once upon a time promised maybe slightly better benefits than private industry to compensate for the fact that the pay sucked and so did the working conditions, and oh yeah no bonuses or stock options tossed around when times were good. Then Lucy pulled the football away and Charlie Brown hit the ground and was disappointed again. Oh the gold plating will turn out to be gold spray paint.

I don't know who you normally hang out with but getting a pension, espically a lavish teacher's pension, is way better than what most people get, which is no pension. That and significant bonuses and stock options aren't the norm, unless you are on the Board of Directors. Most people don't get them at all or would gladly trade them in for a pension. The 8K bonus I once got doesn't nearly make up for years of pensions payments than teachers get. And I have to work year round!

zzyzzx says

you have to about double their actual salary to make a comparison to private industry.

what complete and utter BS. I pay in to my pension fund, it comes out of my salary (instead of SS). They pay in too, as an employer would match your FICA (or is it the employer pay in a bit more) if you are in private industry.

Now in some places it might be slightly different. If you have lessor health benefits than me in private industry or you think my pension costs way more to the employer than SS then add 5K or maybe 10K if you want to really exaggerate.

But I'm pretty sure you would prefer to just lie about it instead.

I know I know, you confuse what I get for a pension with the cost, compared to SS. I'm pretty sure you were talking about the comparative cost to the employer. The rest is just envy. You could have gotten a government job, if you had known you were going to be so envious. Also, why aren't you complaining about mailmen, cops, all the countless clerical jobs. The really sweet pensions are in Police and Fire. Ours are not nearly as good. I think that is because they (in some cases) risk their lives.

zzyzzx says

The 8K bonus I once got doesn't nearly make up for years of pensions payments than teachers get. And I have to work year round!

Amazingly, I work year round too. A dull staff IT job. During the 90's every 2nd friend was telling me what a FOOL I was for not joining their startup company. The "lavish pension" is a ridiculous talking point. Sure maybe somewhere somebody is getting double the retirement payout you are, but it ain't me. Just like somebody hit the lottery or a CEO is sitting on a gold toilet somewhere taking a dump on the head of the peasants I can always find someone I can envy. You don't aim high enough if you are envying the clerks who will someday be in the next bed over at the same retirement home sipping the same prune juice.

Got WORK to do, later.

jvolstad says

Is zero wage better then minimum wage?

Sometimes, yes. I can't speak of this individual. However, depending on what she does with her time, refusing to work for minimum wage might be a prudent idea.

Usually young people have time on their side. However, in one respect this is not true for the Millennials. When it comes to getting out from under college debt, young people do NOT have the luxury of time. There is only a short reprieve from the time you graduate from college to the time interest starts accruing on the college loans. Once interest starts, it is unlikely that a minimum wage job will even cover the interest, nonetheless the principle. The cost of that loan could skyrocket like an ARM reseting.

As such, it is very wise for the young to seek the fastest way to pay off these debts, which can easily reach over $250k in some cases. Now let's give this young lady the benefit of a doubt. Let's presume she is interested in paying off these large debt accrued earning a higher degree for the sole purpose of being economically more productive, rather than her just being lazy.

Time spent working the minimum-wage job, a McJob so to speak, is time that cannot be spent looking for other jobs, interviewing, learning a skill that would be in demand in her field, or even taking a coop that is relevant to her profession.

Now, I paid my own way through college, but I didn't do it with McJobs. I did it by taking jobs that were relevant to my career so that the work experience would make me more valuable once I graduated. Doing so is especially important since there are so many college graduates nowadays. Employers care far more about real-world (i.e., paid) experience than degrees or non-paid experienced.

It could very well pay off for this college sophomore to hold out for a better paying and more relevant job. This, of course, depends on how actively she pursues work in her field.

I wouldn't recommend working at McDonalds for any college student. It is a waste of time that could be used getting experience that will be useful once he/she graduates. One of the toughest times to get a job is when your fresh out of college. Having three or four "real jobs" under your belt makes a huge difference.

It would be interesting to hear this woman state her case for refusing the low paying job. Absent that, I wouldn't judge her harshly.

EMan says

shrekgrinch says

Rouxben says

I wouldn't work for minimum wage either unless I was starving and homeless.

That's the point.

I think it is exactly the point. We humans learn through experiences. When we are permanently surrounded by comforts we forget just how hard someone had to work to get to that point and no longer appreciate it.

In our society way too many just became lazy and complacent, like union workers, I see people who would rather sit on government hand out with no shame while refusing work that will pay well enough.

Oh, I retract my comment then. Your logic clearly justifies a federal minimum wage that doesn't afford a reasonable standard of living by any stretch of the imagination in most of the country.

Anyone refusing to work for it must be some kind of freeloading hillbilly that needs some "life experience" lessons to teach them about all the hard work that went into others' wealth.

Just read all the comments.

Wow.

Vicente says

Sure maybe somewhere somebody is getting double the retirement payout you are, but it ain't me.

You missed my point entirely. Those who work in private industry don't get pensions! It's not a matter of someones pension being double it's a matter of something on the order of thousands of dollars per month lavish teachers pension vs ZERO.

Does your employer not have a 401K or some sort of retirement plan zzyzzx? If they do not, are you not socking away something?

What is so magic about a "pension" to you? If my employer pays me $50K and socks away $10K a year into a defined benefits plan or pension, how is that different than yours paying you $60K and reminding you to save some of it? Pensions are part of a compensation package indeed, and typically the total compensation is lower in public sector than private.

E.g. this Wisconsin study showed public sector compensation 4.8% lower than private when matching education etc.

http://www.epi.org/page/-/old/policy/EPI_PolicyMemorandum_173.pdf?nocdn=1

Interesting article here about pensions sometimes outperforming 401K.

http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/retirement/2006/12/22/do-pensions-beat-401ks.aspx

Turns out when given the tiller, over half of participants put ALL or NONE of their money into equities. They ignore the advice to spread their risks around, and consequently often suffer for it. The idea that everyone should be their own money manager has worked out to the advantage of Wall Street hovering up fees but has demonstrably NOT delivered it's claimed benefits to retirees.

klarek says

tatupu70 says

You're the one who comes on here preaching, mocking, and belittling. Not Nomo.

Practically every thread he chimes in on contains a message along the lines of "you need to stop being angry, stop watching Fox News, and stop blaming others for your misery." The offense he takes at people calling out the absurd b.s. going on today is hilarious, but his sermons are insulting. Lucky for him that you're always on his toes and ready to kiss his ass when people call him out for his sanctimonious b.s. FFS, he's mocking people for working for minimum wage. It doesn't get much lower than that.

taputu has been whining about foreclosures and housing prices dropping since day one. He is probably one of those who bought into the bubble and got ticked off for not cashing out fast enough, so now whines every day how life is not fair.

Rouxben says

Oh, I retract my comment then. Your logic clearly justifies a federal minimum wage that doesn't afford a reasonable standard of living by any stretch of the imagination in most of the country.

I've done it, it is quite possible. A lot of people do it, yes you can't have a mansion a red corvette and 20 weeks paid vacation with it, but somehow most people pull it off just fine. Having a pulse does not entitle you to the fruits of others labor.

EMan says

I've done it, it is quite possible. A lot of people do it, yes you can't have a mansion a red corvette and 20 weeks paid vacation with it, but somehow most people pull it off just fine. Having a pulse does not entitle you to the fruits of others labor.

Oh yes it's so easy to live on minimum wage:

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html

Because everybody on minimum wage, is just a college kid under mom and dad's insurance plan making beer & iPod money. They are never 40+ with maybe kids of their own and medical problems and a broken water heater. Walmart encourages it's workers to apply for all sorts of government aid because they know something you do not, the minimum wage is when things are great just scraping by and with the wind against you it is not nearly enough.

Vicente says

What is so magic about a "pension" to you? If my employer pays me $50K and socks away $10K a year into a defined benefits plan or pension, how is that different than yours paying you $60K and reminding you to save some of it?

Big difference if it's a defined benefits plan because you get that for as long as you live. The 10K will only get me pennies compared to the thousands you'll be getting each month as part of your pension. That and it's more lile they really need to be socking away a lot more then 10K per year per employee into the pension fund (unless they want it to go bankrupt). In your secnario if it's a combined contribution plan, then it could be roughtly equivalent, I think (unless income taxes makes it otherwise).

The girl's in college and doesn't have to work, obviously. She'll be working the rest of her life (unless she marries money); let's give her a break.

When I see kids enjoying summer, hanging around the pool instead of working, I say more power to 'em. Youth is the time for care-free screwing off.

Insofar as her choice of careers - her dad is paying for it (dearly might I add). It's none of our business what she's majoring in, it's his dime. And acting can be beneficial to many professions - acting like you care, acting like work's important...

zzyzzx says

Vicente says

What is so magic about a "pension" to you? If my employer pays me $50K and socks away $10K a year into a defined benefits plan or pension, how is that different than yours paying you $60K and reminding you to save some of it?

Big difference if it's a defined benefits plan because you get that for as long as you live. The 10K will only get me pennies compared to the thousands you'll be getting each month as part of your pension.

I'm pretty sure that being a right winger requires certain deficits or challenges in many areas. Especially Math, Finance and Economics.

10K@ 5% for 40 years, grows to 1.27 million.

If you annuitize 1.27 million for 20 years (at only 4%) it would pay 100,000 per year back for 20 years. The teacher only gets their ending salary which is way less than that for the rest of their life. 20 years is a reasonable or slightly high estimate for average number of years lived after retirement (near 65). Very few teachers retire before 65, and if they do, it's probably without full pension.

It's the wonders of compound interest. Actually CalStrs pension fund invests in real estate, the stock market and various other securities and has historically done better than 5%.

You might want to look in to that compound interest thing zzyzzx. It's pretty cool. In Mathematics, it's the concept of exponential growth.

I'm a teacher with a decent pension. People can't retire with their full ending salary without working 40 years (about 76K if they worked 40). I'm sure you are aware that most pensions are based on a formula, that is a multiple(factor) times the number of years worked times ending salary( or times avg three years highest salary).

marcus says

You might want to look in to that compound interest thing zzyzzx. It's pretty cool. In Mathematics, it's the concept of exponential growth.

In concept it's great. In reality it doesn't always provide exponential growth if markets collapse. I know people who have less than 10 grand in their 401k's and they are in their 50's. Your concept also doesn't account for a lot of other perks too, and pension spiking which really should be addressed.

I used my texas instruments calculator and 835/ month payed in to come up with that number (1.27 million)

Here's a web site you can try, the number is slightly less, in part because 835 is $1.67/month too high, and also because it's contributed monthly.

Try here using 10,000 per year.

Very simple financial calculator http://www.bloomberg.com/personal-finance/calculators/retirement/