patrick.net

 
register or log in

#housing #investing #politics #more
10,861 registered users, 6 online now: Hater, iwog, SharpTrash, Straw Man, WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch, YesYNot
public post private group chat

Fed Buys 71% of US Treasuries! We Have to Abandon Free Market Principles....

  share  

By Blurtman   2014 Jul 28, 12:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   18,843 views   137 comments   watch (0)   quote  

No Surprise, Fed Was Biggest Buyer of Treasuries in 2013

"THE Federal Reserve financed most of the government’s deficit in 2013, in sharp contrast to the year before, when the Fed did not add to its holdings of Treasury securities. The American private sector appears to have been a net seller of Treasuries in 2013, but the foreign private sector was a substantial buyer, according to government estimates released this week.

In 2013, the government issued a net $759 billion in Treasury securities to the public. That was the lowest figure in six years, as the budget deficit declined because of a healthier economy, which increased tax receipts, and to government austerity that cut spending.

The Fed bought a net $543 billion of Treasuries during 2013. That was not a record amount — in 2011 it had purchased $656 billion — but it enabled the Fed to finance 71 percent of the net Treasury borrowing during the year. That was the highest proportion since the government resumed running deficits in 2002. The 2011 purchases amounted to 61 percent of the money the government borrowed that year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/22/business/economy/no-surprise-fed-was-biggest-buyer-of-treasuries-in-2013.html

« First     « Previous     Comments 98-137 of 137     Last »

98   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 9:48am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Zak says

Yeah right. Hard working guy who just wants to have what little he is saving not be inflated away to nothing is poison.

I was talking about Mell. I don't know what politics you subscribe to.

99   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 9:52am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Zak says

It is situated on a natural shipping route on the great lakes, and also had major rail line installed there. It basically was a "fortress area" as you call it. How the tide has turned:

Again......it was not a fortress area. It was an economic powerhouse that boasted jobs as the only draw.

You live in San Diego for Christ sake. I'd say without a doubt that nearly everyone in the world wishes they had enough money to retire there regardless of the job situation.

Regarding Oakland, there will always be jobs there because the city sits square between two fortresses where millionaires and billionaires will call home for the next 100 years.

100   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 9:56am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

bgamall4 says

They are paying cash. But they are bankrolled by the banks.

No, the working class is bankrolled by the banks. They are almost entirely dependent on banks to afford real estate at all. Without lending, the working class doesn't own jack shit.

The rich however will always be bankrolled because they have the credit ratings, the capital assets, and the family money.

I have no idea why you people pray for bank failures, but you're praying for your own fiscal extermination. The aristocracy isn't going to suffer.

101   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:06am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Without lending, the working class doesn't own jack shit.

You can't buy a life style on debt. Not for very long.
It's a stupid idea for anyone to try to compensate income with debt.

The system you defend is basically use debt to participate the speculation game with the rich, instead of focusing on skills and earning an income through work.

Again it's a corrupt system where the rich win all the time, and that leads to the inequalities we see now.

102   Zak     2014 Jul 30, 10:08am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

>I have no idea why you people pray for bank failures, but you're praying for your own fiscal extermination. The aristocracy isn't going to suffer.

yeah, well, clearly you don't understand us at all, because we don't "pray for bank failures". We "pray" for common sense to return to allow standard bankruptcy law to apply and liquidate any bank or auto company that fails instead of this garbage bail out nonsense. There are plenty of good banks (and credit unions) to buy up the assets of the bad banks. We also "pray" for an end to personal tax rates of 40-50% while capital gains rates are at 15% and the profits are floated offshore anyway. And we "pray" for an end to $100k police officer jobs and insane public employee compensation that causes our taxes to be so high in the first place.

103   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:16am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

The system you defend is basically use debt to participate the speculation game with the rich, instead of focusing on skills and earning an income through work.

You're wrong.

Credit is the key to survival and ultimately wealth. A farmer who can't afford a farm but knows he can earn enough money to pay the interest and feed his family lacks only credit. A fisherman who can't afford a boat but knows he can catch enough fish to pay the interest and feed his family lacks only credit. A carpenter who can't afford the proper tools but knows he can earn enough money to pay the interest and feed is family lacks only credit.

The gap between sustenance wages working for someone else, where you can't hope to save any money, and adequate wages that will see an increase in your standard of living often times can only be bridged with debt.

Now we don't live in that type of economy anymore. We live in a perverted economy where the effects of extreme wealth concentration make these types of ventures impossible. A farmer can't make money buying a farm on credit because some asshole who speculated in oil can pay cash for the farm and operate it at a bigger profit because he's not paying interest. A fisherman can't make money buying a boat on credit because some asshole who inherited a fortune paid cash for a seafood company and doesn't have the overhead. Etc. etc.

That doesn't mean credit is bad. I made most of my money because I had the ability to borrow. All the billionaires in the world relied extensively on credit and most of the millionaires. If the system is to be fixed, fixing the wealth disparity problem is the ONLY path forward.

104   corntrollio     2014 Jul 30, 10:20am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

You live in San Diego for Christ sake. I'd say without a doubt that nearly everyone in the world wishes they had enough money to retire there regardless of the job situation.

The weather is nice, sure, but too much military trash there and the restaurants are merely okay. If I were picking cities in California, which is an overpriced place for retirement, San Diego probably wouldn't be the first one.

105   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:24am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Credit is the key to survival and ultimately wealth. A farmer who can't afford a farm but knows he can earn enough money to pay the interest and feed his family lacks only credit. A fisherman who can't afford a boat but knows he can catch enough fish to pay the interest and feed his family lacks only credit. A carpenter who can't afford the proper tools but knows he can earn enough money to pay the interest and feed is family lacks only credit.

You are talking of debt to create production. This is exactly what is not happening in the US. What we are seeing is not debt to buy a farm, it's debt to buy a house with granite countertops at 10x annual revenues with the expectation that this house will continue to appreciate.

iwog says

made most of my money because I had the ability to borrow.

No. You made your money in a speculative game based entirely on your market timing abilities. Most people cannot do that and shouldn't even try. Yet the system you defend is basically pushing them to do that. Who profits most from this game? The rich, absolutely.

106   Zak     2014 Jul 30, 10:25am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of the people that "live" in San Diego "reside" elsewhere for tax purposes. Especially those that are retired.

107   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:27am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Zak says

We "pray" for common sense to return to allow standard bankruptcy law to apply and liquidate any bank or auto company that fails instead of this garbage bail out nonsense. There are plenty of good banks (and credit unions) to buy up the assets of the bad banks.

That's not the way it works!!!!!!!

You type it but you don't get it. On the one hand, people scream "Too big to fail!!! Let them die!!!". On the other hand, people say "No bailouts!!! Let them get liquidated!!!!".

Where is Washington Mutual now? Where is Wachovia? Where is Downy? Where is Indymac?

They got gobbled up and the too big to fail banks got bigger.

How many car companies existed before the Great Depression? How many car companies existed after?

108   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:33am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

You are talking of debt to create production. This is exactly what is not happening in the US. What we are seeing is not debt to buy a farm, it's debt to buy a house with granite countertops at 10x annual revenues with the expectation that this house will continue to appreciate.

It's a separate issue. People don't want to "invest" in a house with granite countertops. They want to invest in a farm or a mine or a shop or a restaurant or a beanie baby factory.

They can't buy a 40-acre farm because those cost $1 million. There is no fucking reason on God's green earth that farms should cost $1 million, but they do because farms are in limited supply and multi-millionaires all want one. The same goes for storefronts, restaurants, mines, factories, and everything else.

It's the gross distortions created by an economy where a billionaire can literally buy an entire city and bulldoze it without a reduction in his standard of living that forces people to borrow into places that are very poor prospects.

Obviously people borrow for stupid consumer reasons too, but don't fault someone for wanting a little tiny capital asset like a house and is willing to take some crazy risks to get there.

109   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:35am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

No. You made your money in a speculative game based entirely on your market timing abilities.

I built a law firm before I had a penny to my name thank you very much. I had to sign numerous credit agreements to get there including a $40,000 contract with the phone company and their stupid yellow pages.

110   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:39am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Where is Washington Mutual now? Where is Wachovia? Where is Downy? Where is Indymac?

There wasn't a depression. If there had been, there wouldn't be any BAC, WFC, GS or MS around. You can't blame the concentration on deflation when it's due to the gov intervention.

Incidentally that's also why there won't be a depression in 2017. The government will just push the current system to its logical conclusion: give minimum welfare to 80% of the people while 19% will be on the debt treadmill to pay for a low middle class lifestyle, and 1% will profit from the overall situation.

111   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:42am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

There wasn't a depression. If there had been, there wouldn't be any BAC, WFC, GS or MS around. You can't blame the concentration on deflation when it's due to the gov intervention.

Again that's not the way it works. There hasn't been a single depression in history that resulted in a few big companies dissolving into a laundry list of small companies.

Why do you think a recession or a depression is also called a consolidation?

Heraclitusstudent says

You can't blame the concentration on deflation when it's due to the gov intervention.

Sorry to say this because you're generally a thoughtful person, but this is total bullshit. Consolidation is the natural result of any unregulated economy. Where's the government interference in a Monopoly game? Doesn't stop a single person from owning everything.

112   corntrollio     2014 Jul 30, 10:42am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

including a $40,000 contract with the phone company and their stupid yellow pages.

Wow, you got hosed on that one. Maybe this was back when the Yellow Pages meant something, but now they're a complete and utter ripoff. Those salesguys are relentless, however.

A lot of Yellow Pages salespeople are fraudsters. They will send an invoice to your office if you're a doctor, dentist, lawyer, accountant, or other professional even without talking to you first, in the hopes that your office staff will pay it without questioning because it looks legit. A lot of these Yellow Pages companies sometimes publish books that aren't even tied to your local area and don't have great circulation, so they're a complete ripoff.

113   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:44am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

corntrollio says

Wow, you got hosed on that one. Maybe this was back when the Yellow Pages meant something, but now they're a complete and utter ripoff. Those salesguys are relentless, however

Nope, it was worth it and built our business from 1992 onward. It was $40,000 per year give or take until the internet took off and we found cheaper alternatives.

This was also ONLY with Pacific Bell.

114   Strategist   548/549 = 99% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:47am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Heraclitusstudent says

The system you defend is basically use debt to participate the speculation game with the rich, instead of focusing on skills and earning an income through work.

You're wrong.

Credit is the key to survival and ultimately wealth.

He is right Herac, people get loans to buy homes which ultimately becomes their pot of gold. Same goes for businesses. Even the rich borrow money to make more money.
It takes money to make money, and borrowing is same as renting money, with interest being the price of money.

115   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 10:52am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

There is no fucking reason on God's green earth that farms should cost $1 million, but they do because farms are in limited supply and multi-millionaires all want one. The same goes for storefronts, restaurants, mines, factories, and everything else.

The one big reason there is so much cash in the system is because of debt. The more you push debt, the more cash there is. You can't complain about this amount of cash corrupting everything without looking at the other side: which is how much debt people have.

Yet, as it stands now, authorities are doing everything they can to encourage more debt, wtih absolutely no regard as to where the cash is going (to the rich) and you condone that.

116   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:01am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

He is right Herac, people get loans to buy homes which ultimately becomes their pot of gold.

I mean no offense but if you think buying a house on debt is a pot of gold, or productive in anyway, you are either crazy or very gullible. Unfortunately many people in California think like you.

117   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:03am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

The one big reason there is so much cash in the system is because of debt. The more you push debt, the more cash there is. You can't complain about this amount of cash corrupting everything without looking at the other side: which is how much debt people have.

$10,000 cash in a society where the richest man in town owns $1 billion is more money than $0 cash in a society where the richest man in town owns $100. Infinitely more.

My issue isn't the fact there is too much cash in the system, my issue is the fact that all that cash (and now capital) is in the hands of so few people.

It doesn't matter if it's now where the money supply is trillions of dollars or after the biggest depression in history where the money supply is $1 million for the whole planet. YOU aren't going to be at the table. I'm not either. The worse the depression, the bigger the concentration of wealth at the bottom of the cycle. Bill gate can stand to lose 50 billion dollars. I can't stand to lose $5 million. What can you stand to lose?

You want a fire sale. What you don't understand is that a fire sale only happens if almost everyone else is economically slaughtered and can't bid. This means the richest man in town gets it all. Watch "It's a Wonderful Life" and watch what happens.

118   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:05am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Sorry to say this because you're generally a thoughtful person, but this is total bullshit. Consolidation is the natural result of any unregulated economy. Where's the government interference in a Monopoly game? Doesn't stop a single person from owning everything.

This doesn't apply to the financial industry as it stands now. A deflationary collapse would be the equivalent of a neutron bomb exploding over Manhattan. All the big banks would fail. The only banks that would survive would be small specialty banks with lower leverage.

119   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:06am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

I mean no offense but if you think buying a house on debt is a pot of gold, or productive in anyway, you are either crazy or very gullible. Unfortunately many people in California think like you.

They don't want a pot of gold. They want either themselves or their kids to someday, somehow emerge from feeding the landlord. Debt really is the only way they will ever accomplish it.

120   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:08am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

This doesn't apply to the financial industry as it stands now. A deflationary collapse would be the equivalent of a neutron bomb exploding over Manhattan. All the big banks would fail. The only banks that would survive would be small specialty banks with lower leverage.

You aren't listening. This happened in 1929. NOTHING you're saying will happen happened. Wealth was consolidated into the hands of very few and remained there until EXTREMELY radical government intervention and ultimately World War II.

121   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:14am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

My issue isn't the fact there is too much cash in the system, my issue is the fact that all that cash (and now capital) is in the hands of so few people.

One side issue to this discussion is that the cash is in more hands than you say it is. Boomers who have accumulated at least a $ million are probably more than 10 millions, maybe closer to 20 millions. These people are not rich. They are just middle class people who need this cash for retirement considering the low return the get on it. These are the people buying every rentals cash, not the billionaires.

122   Strategist   548/549 = 99% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:17am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

Strategist says

He is right Herac, people get loans to buy homes which ultimately becomes their pot of gold.

I mean no offense but if you think buying a house on debt is a pot of gold, or productive in anyway, you are either crazy or very gullible. Unfortunately many people in California think like you.

I have lots of friends who bought homes in the 80's and 90's with a mortgage. Every one of them is sitting on a pot of gold. Homes I purchased, and I have never sold one, turned out to be the best investments I ever made. The 2008 collapse was just another opportunity to buy more.

123   Strategist   548/549 = 99% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:18am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

iwog says

My issue isn't the fact there is too much cash in the system, my issue is the fact that all that cash (and now capital) is in the hands of so few people.

One side issue to this discussion is that the cash is in more hands than you say it is. Boomers who have accumulated at least a $ million are probably more than 10 millions, maybe closer to 20 millions. These people are not rich. They are just middle class people who need this cash for retirement considering the low return the get on it. These are the people buying every rentals cash, not the billionaires.

There is a lot of truth in this.

124   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Heraclitusstudent says

One side issue to this discussion is that the cash is in more hands than you say it is.

Watch what happens to that cash in a deflationary depression when families need that money to buy food because there are no jobs.

Heraclitusstudent says

Boomers who have accumulated at least a $ million are probably more than 10 millions, maybe closer to 20 millions.

Watch what happens to that money when the stock market crashes.

Heraclitusstudent says

These are the people buying every rentals cash, not the billionaires.

The 1% in this country are those paying cash and might be able to lay their hands on a million or two. That means 99% are fucked. How is this going to turn out okay?

125   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:33am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

You aren't listening. This happened in 1929. NOTHING you're saying will happen happened. Wealth was consolidated into the hands of very few and remained there until EXTREMELY radical government intervention and ultimately World War II.

The banking system was very different in 1929. There were simple bank runs and the banks didn't lose much money. The financial system outside banks is where money was lost and it is much larger now.

"Over the entire period 1930-1933, one-third of all US banks failed. However, deposit losses remained limited even during this turbulent period at a cumulative 4% (with an annual peak of 2.15% in 1933) of total deposits (of all commercial banks). "

"The degree of concentration in the banking industry was much lower then than it is today. In the mid-1930s, the top three banks held about 11% of the total assets of the industry; in 2008 they held about 40%."

"the financial sector outside banking did suffer losses. Banks thus appear to have been an island of relative stability. "

http://www.voxeu.org/article/lessons-banking-profits-great-depression

In 2008 following Lehman, credit was frozen, had the government not saved AIG, all these large banks would have failed. Falling asset prices would have forced liquidations, leading to more falling prices. Not to mention derivatives. This would have literally shredded their balance sheets.

126   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:35am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

I have lots of friends who bought homes in the 80's and 90's with a mortgage. Every one of them is sitting on a pot of gold. Homes I purchased, and I have never sold one, turned out to be the best investments I ever made. The 2008 collapse was just another opportunity to buy more.

Well... the best you can say is it worked so far....

127   Heraclitusstudent   95/95 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 11:41am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

My issue isn't the fact there is too much cash in the system, my issue is the fact that all that cash (and now capital) is in the hands of so few people.

We agree on the situation but see different flaws. The current way people are pushed into debt for non-productive use is a large part of: why there is so much cash and also why so many people are struggling to get by.

A lot of people who just want a normal house have to get in debt up to the eyeballs. Who profit from this? Not these people. They will struggle all their lives to pay up. But someone receives this money. Generally older people, and then the rich who have inflated assets.

128   Zak     2014 Jul 30, 12:02pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

>You type it but you don't get it. On the one hand, people scream "Too big to fail!!! Let them die!!!". On the other hand, people say "No bailouts!!! Let them get liquidated!!!!".

uhh, those things are not opposites at all. in fact, they are the same thing. AIG was "too big to fail". we should have let it die. it shouldn't have gotten a bailout. It should have been liquidated.

When Lehman when through bankruptcy, it was split up and sold to a variety of other banks. By definition, 1 less means some kind of consolidation. Nothing to fear there. What is to fear is the damage inflicted on the smaller banks by propping up the unprofitable actions of AIG. Multiply this by all the TARP "bailouts".

129   Zak     2014 Jul 30, 12:10pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

>Watch what happens to that cash in a deflationary depression when families need that money to buy food because there are no jobs.

During the great depression a LOT of people moved back to the country and farmed food with relatives. You MAY be right that people are no longer able to support themselves and may die, just from a lack of any basic ability to care for themselves outside of a supermarket society. If that happens, the government should just raise my tax rate to 95%, and they can just be in charge of feeding everyone and determining who gets what, because we just can't have people dying from their own stupidity.. it's not fair.

130   Bellingham Bill   23/23 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 3:35pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

They can't buy a 40-acre farm because those cost $1 million. There is no fucking reason on God's green earth that farms should cost $1 million

http://www.almondboard.com/Growers/Documents/The%20Economics%20of%20Growing%20Almonds.pdf

1 ton per acre production . . . $4000 per ton from the packer. Operating costs are around $3000, so 40 acres nets around $40,000, provided you can get the water.

$40,000 / $1M = 4% ROI

hard work tho doing something actually productive, much easier just buying 5-8 houses and renting them out. Parasitism always wins . . .

131   Bellingham Bill   23/23 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 3:53pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Zak says

we just can't have people dying from their own stupidity.. it's not fair.

the Market can't provide for all. We had 200 million less people here in 1930 than now (not that people "went back to the farm" 1930-40, the actual census numbers don't support that history).

It's not just a supermarket society we live in, we've alienated capital -- the means of production -- itself from the workforce.

More people on the farm isn't going to result in more production. We're kinda tapped out here already.

But we don't have a production problem, we have a distribution problem.

1 out of 20 households are clearing 1 out of 3 of the nation's income dollars now. This is a tremendous money pump OUT of the paycheck economy,

FIRE is killing us, along with our $2T health sector, and our $500B/yr trade deficit.

Things started getting squirrelly here when we lost our trade surplus.

blue is trade surplus / GDP, red is total debt / GDP (right axis)

The word Government shares the greek root of "cyber", to steer or pilot a boat.

Our government hasn't been doing all that great a job of steering things, since 1970 or whenever.

exploding housing and health costs, cheap imports at the cost of 8 million mfg jobs . . . we've really let things get out of control here.

132   iwog   549/549 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 4:24pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Bellingham Bill says

$40,000 / $1M = 4% ROI

That is what makes financing a farm impossible. That 4% needs to go to the bank. Farming is now an activity suitable only for the aristocracy.

133   Zak     2014 Jul 30, 5:33pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

>No, I suggest you don't wax nostalgic about what you missed out on. Be careful what you wish for.

you're right. I should just be grateful that the 40% coming out of my paycheck isn't because of communism! Ugg. how dare i suggest that it might be nice to pay only 15% tax as if my income were capital gains. I am just a stupid peon worker. I should be grateful these kind people want to take care of me so well. They have my best interest at heart .. you swear! They really do need to read my email and listen to my phone calls because TERRORISM! my poor pea brain is incapable of any reason or self direction of my life.. CAPITULATE TO THE STATE! chant it with me!

134   ja   13/13 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 30, 7:12pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

That doesn't mean credit is bad. I made most of my money because I had the ability to borrow. All the billionaires in the world relied extensively on credit and most of the millionaires. If the system is to be fixed, fixing the wealth disparity problem is the ONLY path forward.

I totally agree.. if a farmer is able to get value from the land, then the interests payments for the use of the land are the fair and efficient market price

But the fact that is efficient doesn't mean it's well distributed and that it could even be more efficient if it was so.

We should forbid inheritance

Piketty to the rescue?

135   Bellingham Bill   23/23 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 31, 12:46am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

ja says

We should forbid inheritance

nah, just tax parasitical economic activity directly.

Piketty didn't go anywhere near this remedy for some strange reason.

It's like Henry George and his movement didn't even exist.

I haven't read all of Piketty (who has?) but on page 21:

"they might also take decades, during which landlords and oil well owners might well accumulate claims on the rest of the population so extensive that they could easily come to own everything that can be owned, including rural real estate and bicycles, once and for all.”

the rich can corner real estate, they cannot corner bicycles! One of these the market can make new supply, but for the other, it cannot!

he falls into the same trap of not understanding the difference between land and actual capital:

“Residential real estate can be seen as a capital asset that yields “housing services,” whose value is measured by their rental equivalent.”

yes it can, but that's not all what's going on. Unlike all other forms of capital, housing is bid up by the masses, since we all must have tenancy in it, and such tenancy ( leasehold or fee simple) is sold on the bid.

136   Bellingham Bill   23/23 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 31, 12:53am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Zak says

I should just be grateful that the 40% coming out of my paycheck isn't because of communism!

9% of your paycheck is retirement and health insurance prepays for your old age pension and health needs. This is an entirely appropriate service of government, since we don't want people losing their pensions should their insurance company go BK or otherwise abscond with the dough.

5-10% is state taxation. Roads, prisons, education, all the services your state provides.

20%+ goes to the Feds, and 10% of that is simply our defense expense:

CAPITULATE TO THE STATE!

A people get the government they deserve.

137   ja   13/13 = 100% civil   2014 Jul 31, 8:02pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Bellingham Bill says

the rich can corner real estate, they cannot corner bicycles! One of these the market can make new supply, but for the other, it cannot!

If making a bycicle depends 9.99% on having the machines and the material, not the labor, what is labor worth?

The value of you labor is a capital you are born with. Regular asset's capital not. It's traded, or inherited. On the long term, prone to concentration if you just considere it stocastic process:

« First     « Previous     Comments 98-137 of 137     Last »

home   top   users   about   suggestions   contact  
topics   random post   best comments   comment jail  
patrick's 40 proposals  
10 reasons it's a terrible time to buy  
8 groups who lie about the housing market  
37 bogus arguments about housing  
get a free bumper sticker: