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Do the Brits Honor Snipers Who Picked Off George Washington's Men?

By Blurtman (20/20 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 20, 6:18pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (1)   17,097 views   84 comments   watch (1)   share   quote  

I know that Chris Kyle was payback for Saddam attacking us on 9/11, but to Iraqis, he was an invader and occupier. And are we to salute the sniper who was picking off citizens resisting the occupation?

Not saying he wasn't brave, and that we should not trivialize service people whose job is to keep their fellow soldiers safe. But one can say that about any troops, the Wehrmacht, Saddam's Revolutionary Guards, etc.

The guy was there for false reasons, and was quite skilled at killing members of the Iraqi revolutionary army and resisting citizens. Brave? Sure. Hero?

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45   Ironman (125/133 = 93% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:31pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Even if I do make a mistake, I'll still be far superior to you because I'm willing to correct my mistakes and change my position when there is good reason to do so.

The problem is there never is a good reason to do so.

...Even when he's provided FACTS that contradict his position...

46   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:31pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

The problem is there never is a good reason to do so.

Perhaps to you. I'll flip flop like John Kerry at the International House of Pancakes if there is cause to do so. For example, when a study came out that GMO foods caused a majority of rats to develop cancerous tumors, I changed my stance on GMO foods. Then when that study was revealed to use rats genetically modified to grow tumors and the study failed to mention that, I changed my position again.

Changing one's position is not a sign of weakness, but strength. However, I reserve the right to be skeptical. A skeptic demands to be convinced by evidence. The religious refuse to be convinced by evidence.

Now how about you? When was the last time you sincerely changed your mind?

47   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:35pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

I loved that movie. He was a hero. No one goes into battle to lose a war.

Now imagine that Chris Kyle was born in Iraq and he shot American soldiers to protect his family, his neighbors, his countrymen, of which over one million were killed during the American-Iraq war. Would you still call him a hero?

If no, then you are a hypocrite. And that's the point Blurtman was making.

48   Macropodia (29/31 = 93% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Why don't you man up and admit that by posting a two word reply,"True dat", to a 3 paragraph 8 sentence 97 word thread header, without referencing what part you were replying to, you basically proclaimed that you agreed with the whole and complete thread header?

If you did not, you would have singled out the part that you were referring to.

And in publicly acknowledging your acceptance of the complete thread header, committed the most Freudian of slips, agreeing that Saddam attacked the USA on 9/11, going against the jist of every other post you've ever made on the subject.

So c'mon...man up...the cats outta the bag.
you voted for McCain because of Palin, didn't cha?

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

Double Translation

Just be man enough to admit that you misunderstood what I said

49   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:42pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

Changing one's position is not a sign of weakness, but strength. However, I reserve the right to be skeptical. A skeptic demands to be convinced by evidence. The religious refuse to be convinced by evidence.

Now how about you? When was the last time you sincerely changed your mind?

All the time. I never had a problem changing my mind when new information comes to light. Just yesterday after Obama's speech I changed the grade I gave him for handling the economy from D+ to B-. The economy is steadily creating jobs, our deficits are on the decline, and interest rates are still low.
His foreign policy still sucks (F) because he is a little bit of a wimp when it comes to the Mid East. If he takes out Iranian nukes he will deserve an "A"

50   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:45pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

SoftShell says

Why don't you man up and admit that by posting a two word reply,"True dat", to a 3 paragraph 8 sentence 97 word thread header, without referencing what part you were replying to, you basically proclaimed that you agreed with the whole and complete thread header?

Because that was not my intention and I will not lie about my intentions. I was agreeing with Blurtman's fundamental point, that the classification of people as heroes or villains is determined not by their actions, motives, or results, but rather by which side they arbitrarily wound up being on.

The fact that you didn't get that point is your failing, not mine.

51   dublin hillz   2015 Jan 21, 2:45pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Considering that eastwood made the film, I don't really see what the controversy is about. It went pretty much as expected. To hear both sides of the story, the source would need to be professors or independent journalists. Usually, history is written by winners. The soviets made films all the time glorifying their soldiers and partisan insurgents in the fight against the nazis.

52   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:47pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I loved that movie. He was a hero. No one goes into battle to lose a war.

Now imagine that Chris Kyle was born in Iraq and he shot American soldiers to protect his family, his neighbors, his countrymen, of which over one million were killed during the American-Iraq war. Would you still call him a hero?

Absolutely not. The Iraqis can call him a hero like Bin Laden. I would call him the number one target for our snipers.

Dan8267 says

If no, then you are a hypocrite. And that's the point Blurtman was making.

Horrible logic. Just like your "cops are evil" logic.

53   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:47pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

dublin hillz says

Considering that eastwood made the film

...I'm surprised that it didn't involve Chris Kyle shooting empty chairs to pieces.

By the way, the chair won that debate.

54   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Horrible logic. Just like your "cops are evil" logic.

It's sad that you can't understand Blurtman's point.

55   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:51pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Horrible logic. Just like your "cops are evil" logic.

It's sad that you can't understand Blurtman's point.

His point is....we are the bad guys.
My point is.....we are the good guys.
How come you can't understand my point?

56   Macropodia (29/31 = 93% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 2:52pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

The point is not what you intended, but what you conveyed to others.

If you cannot coherently state your thoughts to the owners of 15000 separate ip addresses within a 24 hour period, you forfeit the right to bitch about the resulting comments referencing your incoherent post.

All this could have been avoided if only you had the tenacity to highlight and click the 'quote' link....

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

Why don't you man up and admit that by posting a two word reply,"True dat", to a 3 paragraph 8 sentence 97 word thread header, without referencing what part you were replying to, you basically proclaimed that you agreed with the whole and complete thread header?

Because that was not my intention

57   justme (9/9 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 5:14pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

sbh says

the 30 looters he said he and a mate shot from atop the N.O. Super Dome right after Katrina;

Not to mention that shooting people for looting is not how things are done in a nation that supposedly operates under the principle called "the rule of law".

But if Chris Kyle could make up stories about shooting looters, one has to wonder what kind of criteria he used to decide whether to shoot Iraqis that appeared in his way. I can imagine that the guy was quite the war criminal.

58   WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch (39/39 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 5:45pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Horrible logic. Just like your "cops are evil" logic.

It's sad that you can't understand Blurtman's point.

His point is....we are the bad guys.

My point is.....we are the good guys.

How come you can't understand my point?

That's not the point. The point is, to Iraqis and Vietnamese, we're the foreign invaders. Just like the British at the Battle of New Orleans to us.

59   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:24pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Horrible logic. Just like your "cops are evil" logic.

It's sad that you can't understand Blurtman's point.

His point is....we are the bad guys.

My point is.....we are the good guys.

How come you can't understand my point?

That's not the point. The point is, to Iraqis and Vietnamese, we're the foreign invaders. Just like the British at the Battle of New Orleans to us.

The ones we were really fighting after the fall of Baghdad were the extremists who were responsible for the massive number of suicide bombers that targeted their own people at at weddings and funerals. These extremists did not want democracy peace, they wanted power and Islam.
We may have been the invaders and you may not support the war, but to hate our men and support the other side is plain wrong.

60   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:26pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

sbh says

I give him a pass for what he did as a soldier with his assignment over there. Fighting urban guerrillas blurs the lines of warfare ethics and fucks up our soldiers' psyche. I don't blame him for wigging out any more than I blame the guy who killed him. The disgusting injustice of that war is not on the soldier, it's on the Bush administration.

Hey I agree. The sun must have rose from the West today.

61   Blurtman (20/20 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:27pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

he ones we were really fighting after the fall of Baghdad were the extremists

Absolute bullshit, and have you ever considered writing for Fox News?

62   WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch (39/39 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:29pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

The ones we were really fighting after the fall of Baghdad were the extremists who were responsible for the massive number of suicide bombers that targeted their own people at at weddings and funerals. These extremists did not want democracy peace, they wanted power and Islam.

Not at all.

Some were extremists, and although the Pentagon hemmed and hawed for months and months, it was eventually revealed the "Foreign Fighters" who made up most of the extremists were Saudis and Egyptians, the usual Takfiri Terrorists.

Many of the fighters were Sunnis that dumbass Bremer decided to simply lay off everybody remotely related to the Ba'ath party without any attempt to figure out who was a bad guy and who was just Ahab the Post Office Deliveryman. Unemployed guys laid off by a unelected and foreign occupation force generally aren't happy folks. Note we took care NOT to do that in Germany 1945-1946.

As for the bombing of shrines and weddings, those were mostly Sunni attacks on the Shi'a majority.

While the Takfiri and Ba'athists were attacking the Shi'a, all you heard about was how bad the Shi'a militias were. Gee, can't think of a reason why the Shi'ites would want a militia when they're the victim of daily attacks the Occupiers can't prevent.

63   Blurtman (20/20 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:33pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

And the rightful Fallujah uprising were Shia. Al Qaeda hates the Shia.

That dumb ass draft dodging criminal Dick Cheney instantly transformed folks rightfully resisting an occupation into terrorists and "extremists." George Washington was a fucking extremist.

64   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:34pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Blurtman says

Strategist says

he ones we were really fighting after the fall of Baghdad were the extremists

Absolute bullshit, and have you ever considered writing for Fox News?

There was a reason why Bush declared victory on the aircraft carrier. The war against Saddam was over. He did not anticipate taking on extremists for years to come. That was the second mistake he made.

65   WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch (39/39 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:37pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

There was a reason why Bush declared victory on the aircraft carrier. The war against Saddam was over. He did not anticipate taking on extremists for years to come. That was the second mistake he made.

They had no idea their dumbass policies would create an insurgency. But of course, they were trapped by their extremist Neoliberal ideology to ban unions, fire most of the public workers, etc.

Later they "revised" the victory speech to only be about the invasion, and not the occupation.

It was also only supposed to cost a few billions dollars and be paid for out of Iraqi Oil Revenues.

Bwahahahahah., hhahahahaha, hahahahahah

No matter how much trouble Saudi terrorists and terror financiers cause the USA, from 9/11 to the Iraq Occupation, you will never hear a Saudi-American Politician in Congress talk about the need to bomb Riyadh or launch drones to kill various Princes and other Terror Financiers and Supporters.

66   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:45pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

There was a reason why Bush declared victory on the aircraft carrier. The war against Saddam was over. He did not anticipate taking on extremists for years to come. That was the second mistake he made.

They had no idea their dumbass policies would create an insurgency. But of course, they were trapped by their extremist Neoliberal ideology to ban unions, fire most of the public workers, etc.

Later they "revised" the victory speech to only be about the invasion, and not the occupation.

It was also only supposed to cost a few billions dollars and be paid for out of Iraqi Oil Revenues.

Bwahahahahah., hhahahahaha, hahahahahah

That is the problem we face with the Mid East. We have failed to realize that religion reigns supreme in these countries. We helped Bin Laden fight off the Russians and in turn he stabbed us in the back. We got rid of a bad dictator and in return we became the target of extremists.
The moral of the story is ......the Mid East is just not ready for democracy, they need cruel dictators to rule them. We need to install our own Western friendly cruel dictators, and look the other way when they do something we don't like. Once we know they are ready for democracy, we can help establish democracy. In the long run that is what will be the best for democracy, and best for the Mid East. It won't be good for Islam, but who cares.

67   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

I never had a problem changing my mind when new information comes to light. Just yesterday after Obama's speech I changed the grade I gave him for handling the economy from D+ to B-. The economy is steadily creating jobs, our deficits are on the decline, and interest rates are still low.

You are missing a lot of information. O gets a F- on everything, except as zzyzzx once said, "fucking up".

68   WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch (39/39 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:48pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

We helped Bin Laden fight off the Russians and in return he stabbed us in the back.

Blowback, the reward for interfering. We also were mum on the Chechen Mountain Barbarians, also backed by Sauds and Takfiris, until 9/11.

Putin beat them to a pulp, Grozny is rebuilt with beautiful glass skyscrapers, and except for another desperate Takfiri attack a while back, Chechnya is again another proud part of Mighty Russia - the only Christian Country will a long proven history of taming Muslims.

69   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

Strategist says

I never had a problem changing my mind when new information comes to light. Just yesterday after Obama's speech I changed the grade I gave him for handling the economy from D+ to B-. The economy is steadily creating jobs, our deficits are on the decline, and interest rates are still low.

You are missing a lot of information. O gets a F- on everything, except as zzyzzx once said, "fucking up".

he he he. Spoken like a true Republican.

70   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 6:53pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

We helped Bin Laden fight off the Russians and in return he stabbed us in the back.

Blowback, the reward for interfering. We also were mum on the Chechen Mountain Barbarians, also backed by Sauds and Takfiris, until 9/11.

I actually prefer the Russian, Chinese, and Indian way of dealing with crazy extremists. Shoot first and ask questions later. It's much more effective than our stupid way of giving undue rights and tolerance to those who want to kill us. We should outsource our war against Islam to these countries. Much cheaper and effective.

71   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 7:01pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

he he he. Spoken like a true Republican.

Or a conservative Libertarian.

72   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 7:09pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

sbh says

Hey I agree.

You simply can't be wrong every time, Strat. You were due.

No SBH, No. You were the one that was due. You lucky guy.

sbh says

Strategist says

The ones we were really fighting after the fall of Baghdad were the extremists who were responsible for the massive number of suicide bombers that targeted their own people at at weddings and funerals.

And, see? It took no time at all for you to revert to form.

You mean facts?

sbh says

You might try to take this moment when you recognize the non-traditional type of combat we're discussing, as a springboard to recalibrating your grasp of non-traditional intelligence gathering. We were clearly the invading force in Iraq, and we should never have been there. It was the same as if Mexico had committed a terrorist act against Putin and he retaliated by invading Texas, dispatching snipers to "overwatch" ground ops, and torturing pissed off cattle ranchers who came into town to defend their own.

Thanks for agreeing with me. There is hope for you in hell.

73   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 7:41pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

His point is....we are the bad guys.

My point is.....we are the good guys.

How come you can't understand my point?

Actually, no, Blurtman isn't saying America is the bad guys. You miss the point again.

As for your point that America, a nation that has committed the atrocities of slavery, dozens of genocides, and the nuclear bombing of two cities full of civilians and children, can do no wrong is understood and reject as ridiculous.

Regarding Chris Kyle, you are not honoring him, but only a cartoon of him. If you would denounce Kyle acting exactly as he did for exactly the same reason, but born Iraqi instead of American, then you are not honoring him at all.

74   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 7:41pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

SoftShell says

The point is not what you intended, but what you conveyed to others.

That's a nonsensical statement like most of what you said.

75   WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch (39/39 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 7:52pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

I actually prefer the Russian, Chinese, and Indian way of dealing with crazy extremists. Shoot first and ask questions later. It's much more effective than our stupid way of giving undue rights and tolerance to those who want to kill us. We should outsource our war against Islam to these countries. Much cheaper and effective.

The only main difference is that they find the source and kill it. Russians hunt down the Wahabi Leaders and ambush them. We drone attack some schmucks in Yemen, when we should bomb the Royal Palaces in Riyadh. Because the Sheiks are most generous not only to terrorists, but to the US Congress and Presidential Campaigns.

76   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 8:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

sbh says

The decentralization of the self is necessary to morality.

You need to dumb that down for people like Strategist.

The same act, performed for the same reason, is morally equal to itself regardless of the flag being waved by the performer.

Shit, I failed. Still too intellectual for Strategist.

77   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 8:23pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

The same act, performed for the same reason, is morally equal to itself regardless of the flag being waved by the performer.

You dumb fuck you are still confusing morality and ethics.

There is dumb and then there is so dumb that you do not know that you do not know. This is your home base.

78   Strategist (30/30 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 8:42pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

sbh says

Dan8267 says

If you would denounce Kyle acting exactly as he did for exactly the same reason, but born Iraqi instead of American, then you are not honoring him at all.

The decentralization of the self is necessary to morality. If you run the myriad events of human history through only the personal lens the world has no form. This is Strat's blindspot.

Dan8267 says

sbh says

The decentralization of the self is necessary to morality.

You need to dumb that down for people like Strategist.

The same act, performed for the same reason, is morally equal to itself regardless of the flag being waved by the performer.

Shit, I failed. Still too intellectual for Strategist.

Bad as you misinformed fellows are, I am going to go easy on you today. It is my birthday today, and I have a special treat waiting for me. If my prayers are answered it will be 4 hot naked women. But tomorrow is a different day.

79   Patrick (184/184 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 8:55pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

thunderlips11 says

We drone attack some schmucks in Yemen, when we should bomb the Royal Palaces in Riyadh. Because the Sheiks are most generous not only to terrorists, but to the US Congress and Presidential Campaigns.

this.

for example:

http://www.thenation.com/blog/170496/loophole-allows-saudi-arabian-businesses-spend-freely-our-election

80   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 9:02pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

How can this be?, McCain Feingold doesn't cover this problem... and McCain is such a fine upstanding asshole.

Once again government intervention exacerbate the very problem they are trying to solve...

81   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 10:14pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

You dumb fuck you are still confusing morality and ethics.

There is dumb and then there is so dumb that you do not know that you do not know. This is your home base.

Wow, it's like arguing with a 5-year-old that was shaken as a baby.

82   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 21, 10:18pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

Wow, it's like arguing with a 5-year-old that was shaken as a baby.

I was thinking the same

83   Dan8267 (73/74 = 98% civil)   2015 Jan 22, 7:15am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

84   indigenous (51/51 = 100% civil)   2015 Jan 22, 8:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Dan8267 says

Dan's mirror...

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