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Why do cops shoot first in the US? Is it fear of a breakdown of social order?

By Blurtman   2016 May 27, 7:32am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   1 link   8,654 views   85 comments   watch (1)   share   quote  

Scenes From Paris Protests (and an Update from Alison)

Especially note around the 4 minute mark where one guy uses a big piece of metal to puncture the window of a cop car then another guy throws in what appears to be a burning road flare or maybe a molotov cocktail. The cop calmly gets out and is confronted by another guy who tries to beat him with a big stick. The cop calmly fends off the blows and finally somebody pulls away the guy with the stick. Imagine this in the US. There would be so many dead civilians.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/05/scenes-from-paris.html

Need to keep the sheeple in their place?

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46   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 10:15am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

FortWayne says

I think that boy drinks way too much left wing coolaid

You to come to this blog to
a) see something you DON'T believe in religiously,
b) feel smug regurgitating memes you get daily from right wing propaganda, that bargain-priced billion dollar a year investment elites use to render us feckless and afraid while extracting to overseas the essence of our society while we constantly fight and die in wars to supposedly protect what, a flag? Oil Wealth? Weapon maker's profits?
c) GET FREE INVESTING ADVICE from someone who actually does get investing results BECAUSE HE CULTIVATES SKILLED CRITICAL THINKING!!!

You product! you Blue Kool-Aid Bastard, are as mentally disabled as your evil avatar!

47   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 10:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

we have the government deciding what bathroom an individual uses, how much they are enslaved through taxes, how they can insure themselves for health, the minutiae of how they run there business, when they can defend themselves against the enemy, how they can travel, what their children will be taught, what drugs they will take both recreationaly and for health, what they will hear on the air waves through radio or television, not to mention the endless regulations regarding how you use your property, conduct your business, or conduct yourself, or go to war with.

Isn't that what happens because we allow it to happen by staying uninvolved in government?

Notice that none of those preoccupations you mention affects the rate of wealth extraction from our society? --or into who's coffers that wealth insanely enriches

Doesn't that contradict the droning right wing memes that government is useless, inefficient, and should be destroyed? --because the donor class derives perfect performance for their investments and management of our government with laser beam-like accuracy!

Elites are just waiting for a black-swan crisis to emerge, the government debts will be called due, and elites will BECOME the government, temporarily of course at first, while societal pain is intensified to the point where government directly by the wealthy is seen as the only viable solution offered to us WITHOUT US EVER INSISTING ON OUR INVOLVMENT!

Guaranteed that you will like your life a lot less when the government of the people is taken completely away. You will get to stand by as always knowing that you allowed it to happen. Memes will surely be offered to cast blame for your misery elsewhere, while the internet is reconfigured to maximize profits and mind control with unhindered efficiency.

48   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 10:32am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Isn't that what happens because we allow it to happen by staying uninvolved in government?

jazz music says

Notice that none of those preoccupations you mention affects the rate of wealth extraction from our society? --or into who's coffers that wealth insanely enriches

That has to do with this:

49   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 10:46am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Horrific that you would post that particularly daft meme claiming control of our government not mattering.

A hard rain is surely going to fall on us cowards.

50   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 11:07am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Horrific that you would post that particularly daft meme claiming control of our government not mattering.

So you are extolling the virtues of government?

Which part? The wars, the taxation, the regulation, the education, the laws?

jazz music says

A hard rain is surely going to fall on us cowards.

Splain your self?

51   Ironman   607/642 = 94% civil   2016 May 28, 11:19am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

bob2356 says

The problem is police forces are becoming more military. Police are supposed to be basically social workers dealing with drunks and dysfunctional families most of the time, not special ops teams.

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city? We had that happen in Ferguson and Los Angeles. Pussy cat cops are no match for hordes of rioters bent on destruction. A display of overwhelming force is the best deterrent we have.

Yep...

There's a reason the cops are stocking up on all this military hardware. If Bob would come out of the barn once a while to see what's really going on in the country, it would be very aware to him.

52   P N Dr Lo R   130/131 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 11:30am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city

Did you ever notice that when the police force is successful in quelling a riot the response from the rioters is "the police over-reacted".

53   Ironman   607/642 = 94% civil   2016 May 28, 11:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

P N Dr Lo R says

Did you ever notice that when the police force is successful in quelling a riot the response from the rioters is "the police over-reacted".

Yep, those party-pooper cops ruin all the fun...

54   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 4:17pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

P N Dr Lo R says

Strategist says

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city

Did you ever notice that when the police force is successful in quelling a riot the response from the rioters is "the police over-reacted".

And when they don't succeed in quelling a riot, it's the cops fault like it was when LA was burning down.

55   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 4:21pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

A hard rain is surely going to fall on us cowards.

Oh God, Shakespeare is calling for overthrowing the government. Hey, you can do it peacefully in November, you know.

indigenous says

Splain your self?

He means a Hail Storm.

56   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 4:35pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

extolling the virtues of government?

Which part?

Oh you will extol government too once it is completely dismantled and split up like the proceeds of a heist between robbers of the donor class.

When you find your life rudely shortened and even rendered to your lords over mundane life necessities like food and health. When you abandoned those poor, unfortunate and needy, you will realize that, you really abandoned yourself because you aren't really like one of the elites after all are you? You'll probably see this while the whip-crackers and enforcers are coming at you and yours with new fervor and even glee.

Elite pigs have been manipulating government policy with laser-like precision to their enrichment and your downfall especially well in the last 40 years.

Do elites and their agents know something about government that you don't?

Fuck yeah, huh? --So much so they have to hide out much more as they increase their broadcasting of government ineptitudes. Well of course it is inept, as far as it goes for us, with ELITE tentacles pulling all the strings, we have no stake of any consequence. Translation: no representative fears any of us. But alas, Hitler was correct about repeating the biggest lies until they become commonly shared truths. (ref: Mine Kampf, vol. I, ch. X)

Newsflash: Government is a NOT bunch of unreachable idiots. Government is simply a GREAT GREAT tool, so it is like a gun in that what matters most is which end of it you are on. Hint, elites are holding the trigger and we are in the sites. Our founding fathers crafted OUR government as well as they could to keep us from coming to this brink of becoming a crushed people. Some of our BETTER presidents over the last 150 years warned us about this corruption of our system. Even fuckin' Abe Lincoln, okay?

But many other distractions worked out to silence us all on behalf of our lords. Even in the throes of wage slavery, they persuade you to think you are just like them: With Hollywood-Reagan's betrayals there was the original tinkle down economics WHICH elites are still using against some of their more faithful followers. Meanwhile it was necessary to bust union power, stack the SCOTUS in favor of monopolizing everything a little bit profitable, and start offshoring in a major way. Prosperity always just around the bend.

Then in the wake of the dotcom collapse when economic pain really set in, there was the "you got a mortgage, you're a millionaire just like us" A ROYAL SCAM that it seems HAD everybody and their brother deliriously blinded and distracted and on a flag-waving spending spree until banks dropped the hammer on multi-trillions in CDOs in 2007, and elite's media kept people in denial all the way through 2008 in many cases. MEANWHILE, hehehe, the cheap money of that period was instrumental in fueling vast tides of mergers and acquisitions that greatly consolidated wealth and power so rapidly into fewer hands.

Now there is the scam of getting all your retirement money into equities so it can be lost all in one day. There is no place to safely park your retirement now. Housing revenue streams are greatly transferred to the donor class with each and every collapse and 'jobless recovery' cycle. Still, the only wealth that is still out of the lion's grasp is housing which won't be worth shit for awhile when the equities markets tank, banks close to revalue your holdings and jobless people can't afford to mortgage nearly nonexistent future earnings.

Only those who can make ends meet long term without employment, and maybe short term without some essential banking and food services, will be able to hang on to their stake in housing. Enforcement is already fully geared up for the next cycle of martial law.

These are the miseries past present and future we could have saved ourselves from if we weren't so easily distracted and scared away from our own interests. Moooooo, how ironic that Reagan was this cowboy actor ROTFLMAO!--you can't make this shit up. No wonder people all over the planet are laughing at us Americans. I understand though. I am one of us. it's the media: we were all raised by it, we are practically helpless against it.

Again a hard rain is surely going to fall on us cowards. You won't find the elites as they will be on the high seas in yachts, they will be safe in mountain resorts all over the world from you, me and even global warming too! Everywhere they already have domestics, deluxe catering, special enforcers, deluxe airports and special banking services. They are all set to go as soon as the SHTF, or preferably just before the SHTF.

Sorry to have to break this to you. You are not like the elites, you and yours will be crushed along with the rest. That is what tinkles down my friend.

57   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 4:40pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Oh you will extol government too once it is completely dismantled and split up like the proceeds of a heist between robbers of the donor class.

When you find your life rudely shortened and even rendered to your lords over mundane life necessities like food and health. When you abandoned those poor, unfortunate and needy you will realized that really abandoned yourself because you aren't really like one of the elites after all are you? You'll probably see this while the whip-crackers and enforcers are coming at you and yours with new fervor and even glee.

Beautiful, Shakespeare, beautiful. Perfect for a documentary on Venezuela.

58   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 5:05pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Beautiful, Shakespeare, beautiful

... and it can't happen here. There is non-Shakespearean writing all over the world about it. There are movies being seen about it already, but it can't happen here. Beautiful, Beautiful, Shakespeare.

You were one of those mortgage-rich deliriously blinded and distracted and on a flag-waving spending spree. Actually nuvo-liberal financially but taught that's what good conservatives do.

Sorry to have to break it to you too. You are not like the elites, you and yours will be crushed. That is what tinkles down my friend. And those who engineered the bubble profited from it mightily, unlike their pawns.

59   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 5:14pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Shakespeare is calling for overthrowing the government

Explain.

60   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 5:39pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Sorry to have to break this to you. You are not like the elites, you and yours will be crushed along with the rest. That is what tinkles down my friend.

That was very aesthetic or maybe anesthetic?

BTW not so honest Abe got 800,000 Americans killed with his Hamiltonian ideals, and practiced front running to line his own pocket at the taxpayers expense.

This is still accurate:

61   bob2356   179/180 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 7:17pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Ironman says

There's a reason the cops are stocking up on all this military hardware. If Bob would come out of the barn once a while to see what's really going on in the country, it would be very aware to him.

Yes there is a reason cops are stocking up, because the military is giving it away free. Feel free to tell us what's really going on in the country. That will be a joke coming from someone who can't figure out what is really going on in ocean county. I'll wait for you to answer, as in waiting forever as always.

62   Ironman   607/642 = 94% civil   2016 May 28, 7:18pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Thanks for proving my point, now back to the barn for you!

63   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 7:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Strategist says

Shakespeare is calling for overthrowing the government

Explain.

You explain. Exactly how do you propose to make changes that benefits society as a whole?

64   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 7:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

You explain. Exactly how do you propose to make changes that benefits society as a whole?

Lots of ways. You proposed revolution. I propose you man up and start questioning authority. Get off your knees. Become active in your community if you can.

65   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 28, 7:59pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

Strategist says

You explain. Exactly how do you propose to make changes that benefits society as a whole?

Lots of ways.

Go ahead I'm listening.

jazz music says

You proposed revolution.

Hell no. Democracies don't need revolutions. We can peacefully change our government every 2years.

66   Ironman   607/642 = 94% civil   2016 May 28, 8:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

Democracies don't need revolutions. We can peacefully change our government every 2years.

Ever hear the quote, "The Definition of Insanity"?

67   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 8:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

This is still accurate:

No it is still a pathetic meme to prep you mentally to accept losing official ownership of your government. I wasn't going to throw that in your face but you insist. Almost all the work of government is to benefit those who drive it.

Because government is a tool, not a people. And guns don't kill people. And drugs are not evil. And government is the only tool you have to apply force to the elites. You just never use it. Maybe not even once every 4 years. Heheheh.

Do you drive government? I didn't think so. Who do you think drives it? --you have just discovered who is benefitting from policy. AND IN A HUGE WAY so much so that elites elevate those in government to life of luxury in exchange to corrupt government policy all the time.

You ignored the essence of my remark about Lincoln so I assume you have no idea what was meant. Abraham Lincoln said this:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money-power of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Other of the better presidents expressed similar concerns about the thrones that we created for corporations for reasons of societal benefit. (ironically)

68   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 8:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

We can peacefully change our government every 2years.

You think so? The coming election is a spectacle to generate a frenzy of hyper patriotism for some candidates of extraordinary means. Corporations even write our laws now via ALEX.

You brought up overthrowing the government, why did you do that?

69   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 8:59pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

I'm listening.

Are you? Get involved locally. Your opinions will evolve as you do that.

Is there is something that you think the elites are not doing right. Drive the government, that's what it is there for.

70   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 28, 9:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

jazz music says

You ignored the essence of my remark about Lincoln so I assume you have no idea what was meant. Abraham Lincoln said this:

And you ignored mine about what a fuck he was and as corrupt as they come.

Government is a thing that is used by people to follow there own interest, and since it has reached the tipping point all those who benefit from it's coercion will vote for it's metastasizing into more and more.

Will it change? Yes it will get worse and worse and towards the turn of the century it will implode as the Dollar will no longer be the reserve currency and it's people will not be productive. IOW Rome here he we come

71   BlueSardine   173/175 = 98% civil   2016 May 28, 10:24pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

He may have liked that. I don't think he's had one of those since georgies bit the dust.,..

turtledove says

When I was in Paris back in 2005, I was shocked to see their airport security. They had army looking guys with giant guns everywhere. This was post-9/11, so we had already had the TSA here in the US. Our TSA was nothing compared to the Gestapo feeling you had at CDG airport. Then, when I was boarding the plane, they were pulling people out of line and searching them right then and there. Dan would have had a stroke.

72   bob2356   179/180 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 4:36am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Ironman says

Thanks for proving my point, now back to the barn for you!

You haven't had a point in 40,000 comments. Other than your obsession with barns and farm animals in every post you make. Just because that kind of thing is the social norm for you and your family tree with no branches doesn't mean that the rest of us have any interest in hearing about it. But I can understand, since it's the only life you've known, that you don't know how to have any type of discussion with normal people without bringing it up.

Like I said I will be waiting for an answer to my question, which you are far too ignorant and uneducated to provide, forever. Thanks for proving my point.

73   Quigley   171/173 = 98% civil   2016 May 29, 5:34am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Back to the original topic of police shooting people without cause or restraint, here's a gross example:
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/young-widow-demanding-justice-cop-145625769.html

74   jazz music   150/150 = 100% civil   2016 May 29, 6:48am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Quigley says

here's a gross example:

Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery said, according to The Arizona Republic. "After carefully reviewing the relevant facts and circumstances, we have determined that the use of deadly physical force was not justified in this instance."

The county Attorney agrees apparently. That's impressively uncorrupt of him.

In general police are making the streets safe for themselves. They enjoy official policies that make it easy for them to get away with shooting us.

The missing ingredient that would possibly transform these situation for all is diligent oversight by local citizens. Civil oversight has the potential of mending a lot of really corrupt, criminal and brutal practices on the part of police and curbing this infamous criminal conspiracy to silence that exists if there is no effective oversight. Police default to fearing each other and, correct me if I'm wrong, the same fear driven system also exists naturally between the courts, the prosecutors and the police.

75   bob2356   179/180 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 7:18am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

Which is not my point, BTW your link is broken.

The point is read the article. In it they point out that the cops had a very workable policy in Compstat which was abandoned because of the back lives matter bullshit.

The article didn't say anything about compstat being abandoned. The article offered the OPINION that the cause of the increase in violence in SOME cities is that cops are backing off enforcing because they are concerned about hostility. It is a conjecture, not a fact.

Yet your article very much cherry picks and makes no secret of heavy bias. It totally ignores the cities where crime and violence went down in 2015. It totally ignores that crime and violence for the entire country went down in 2015. Compstat itself is pretty controversial. Read the recently released audit of the use of compstat in NYC. Lots of data manipulation going on. Grand larcenies become larcenies, regular larcenies become unreported, etc., etc.. Cities that didn't use compstat had the same crime decreases as cities that did the last 20 years. There was a general decrease in crime and violence nationwide. How did that happen?

It's worth noting that the violence increase is in the cities that were most aggressive with things like compstat, stop and frisk, broken windows, military training. Why would that be? Lack of trust in the police forces using confrontational tactics maybe? Why aren't police in cities with crime decreases backing off also? Why are they not afraid of the "fergason effect"? Also the increase is mostly in what is called hyper segregated cities. Why would that be?

Compstat is a tool, nothing else. It can help. It can make things worse if used poorly or to implement an agenda. Effective leadership of the police force is the key to control crime, not the tools used.

Like everything else, you have found someone who's opinion agrees with what you want to believe and think you have found the answers to the secrets of the universe. There is a lot more complexity than pointing your finger and saying see there's the reason.

76   P N Dr Lo R   130/131 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 8:02am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

bob2356 says

It's worth noting that the violence increase is in the cities that were most aggressive with things like compstat, stop and frisk, broken windows, military training.

And yet it was stop and frisk and broken windows that was most effective in bringing the mayhem of New York City in the 70's and 80's under control by the 90's, but now those have been abandoned. What's wrong with broken windows thinking, do you just let a neighborhood go to hell? The point is the impulses are there all along, they were just brought to heel for a time.

77   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 29, 5:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

bob2356 says

The article offered the OPINION that the cause of the increase in violence in SOME cities is that cops are backing off enforcing because they are concerned about hostility. It is a conjecture, not a fact.

"As a result of the anti-cop campaign of the last two years and the resulting push-back in the streets, officers in urban areas are cutting back on precisely the kind of policing that led to the crime decline of the 1990s and 2000s. Arrests and summons are down, particularly for low-level offenses. Police officers continue to rush to 911 calls when there is already a victim. But when it comes to making discretionary stops—such as getting out of their cars and questioning people hanging out on drug corners at 1:00 a.m.—many cops worry that doing so could put their careers on the line. Police officers are, after all, human. When they are repeatedly called racist for stopping and questioning suspicious individuals in high-crime areas, they will perform less of those stops. That is not only understandable—in a sense, it is how things should work. Policing is political. If a powerful political block has denied the legitimacy of assertive policing, we will get less of it."

Oh ok reason enough to dismiss the article, clearly you know more than they do...

I will add my anecdotal experience. My business was broken into a while back. It was one in a string of robberies of similiar type businesses. By using a computer model the police were able to predict the most likely next target and staked out that business and nailed the thieves red handed. Needless to say I like the idea of using data to manage crime.

bob2356 says

Yet your article very much cherry picks and makes no secret of heavy bias. It totally ignores the cities where crime and violence went down in 2015. It totally ignores that crime and violence for the entire country went down in 2015. Compstat itself is pretty controversial. Read the recently released audit of the use of compstat in NYC. Lots of data manipulation going on. Grand larcenies become larcenies, regular larcenies become unreported, etc., etc.. Cities that didn't use compstat had the same crime decreases as cities that did the last 20 years. There was a general decrease in crime and violence nationwide. How did that happen?

The biggest downside of using statistics to manage is bogus reporting, (the old lies, damn lies, and statistics trope) the upside is that it takes much of the politics and BS out of the evaluation. The good far out weighs the bad on this. Ideally it would be like baseball where every thing is statisticized honestly. But to think it is perfect is naive.

Was this a bogus statistic as well?

"In New York City in 1990, for example, there were 2,245 homicides. In 2014 there were 333—a decrease of 85 percent. The drop in New York’s crime rate is the steepest in the nation, but crime has fallen at a historic rate nationwide as well—by about 40 percent—since the early 1990s. The greatest beneficiaries of these declining rates have been minorities. "

bob2356 says

It's worth noting that the violence increase is in the cities that were most aggressive with things like compstat, stop and frisk, broken windows, military training. Why would that be?

Don't know but broken windows is an irrefutable success.

bob2356 says

Compstat is a tool, nothing else. It can help. It can make things worse if used poorly or to implement an agenda. Effective leadership of the police force is the key to control crime, not the tools used.

And good leadership uses data to make decisions. Otherwise it is just politics as usual, you don't have to look any further than the beltway to see what a joke that is.

bob2356 says

Like everything else, you have found someone who's opinion agrees with what you want to believe and think you have found the answers to the secrets of the universe. There is a lot more complexity than pointing your finger and saying see there's the reason.

Another case of projecting, blah blah blah

I will say that one of the biggest factors that goes unreported is demographics. People don't commit as much crime when they get older. Which makes me wonder about the huge increase in 20 somethings in near future.

78   marcus   182/183 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 5:45pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

It seems to me it's often a simple incompetence issue of one kind or another. The people becoming police are not the people who should be.

Yes, once an incident happens there's the fraternal police behavior of defending each other, which aggravates the problem. But the real problem is training and even how they hire in the first place. I'm guessing too often they don't have procedures for determining whether a person is qualified to make those kind of decisions under pressure.

I'm not saying this is easy. But somehow too many people are getting through to those jobs that are maybe fine in day to day police work, but can't handle the more intense situations that come up. IT's supposed to be a slightly more risky work than other jobs. That's why they get a full pension after only working 30 years. But if they are going to shoot someone every time they see a .00001% chance of harm to themselves in a situation, then they are too big of a pussy for that kind of work.

79   indigenous   217/217 = 100% civil   2016 May 29, 5:50pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

New comment by marcus in Why do cops shoot first in the US? Is it fear of a breakdown of social order?:
"It seems to me it's often a simple incompetence issue of one kind or another. The people becoming police are not the people who should be.

Yes, once an incident happens there's the fraternal police behavior of defending each other, which aggravates the problem. But the real problem is training and even how they hire in the first place. I'm guessing too often they don't have procedures for determining whether a person is qualified to make those kind of decisions under pressure.

I'm not saying this is easy. But somehow too many people are getting through to those jobs that are maybe fine in day to day police work, but can't handle the more intense situations that come up."

I wonder if they could use that in the schools?

80   Strategist   452/453 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 6:02pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

marcus says

It seems to me it's often a simple incompetence issue of one kind or another. The people becoming police are not the people who should be.

How do you know? You are ignoring the countless incidents where no one got hurt. The real problem is the media that turns a shooting incident into some kind of a national disaster.

81   APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   357/357 = 100% civil   2016 May 29, 6:40pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Most cops these days seem really effeminate and talkative, like TRUMPLIGULA!

A real cop could handle everything in complete silence.

Occasionally he'd need to stick out a hand, grip a neck and crush the life out of an ASSHOLE! in silence, but other wise, no sweat, no strain.

82   marcus   182/183 = 99% civil   2016 May 29, 6:59pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

How do you know? You are ignoring the countless incidents where no one got hurt.

I should have said (meant to say) some of the people, or too many of the people becoming police are not the people that should be. The point being that given the fact that it's a good paying job with good benefits, there should be aptitude tests before hiring (not that it's easy to test how people perform under life threatening pressure), and far better training.

The cost of training would be far less than the cost of reputation lost and law suits payed out to families of murdered civilians.

Strategist says

The real problem is the media that turns a shooting incident into some kind of a national disaster.

It's actually an example of the media still functioning as it should, probably because social media makes it harder for these murders to remain hidden.

83   bob2356   179/180 = 99% civil   2016 May 30, 4:52am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

P N Dr Lo R says

bob2356 says

It's worth noting that the violence increase is in the cities that were most aggressive with things like compstat, stop and frisk, broken windows, military training.

And yet it was stop and frisk and broken windows that was most effective in bringing the mayhem of New York City in the 70's and 80's under control by the 90's, but now those have been abandoned. What's wrong with broken windows thinking, do you just let a neighborhood go to hell? The point is the impulses are there all along, they were just brought to heel for a time.

That is an amazing fact, especially since Bratton didn't become police chief until 1995 or so and started the broken windows program after that. Nothing wrong with broken windows. If cops see something going on and stop it then it's a good idea. If it becomes harassing people and causing resentment then it's a bad idea.

I notice you say nothing about the huge expansion of the NYC police force under bratton paid for by clinton's community policing program. Don't you think that has any relevance at all?

84   bob2356   179/180 = 99% civil   2016 May 30, 6:03am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

indigenous says

As a result of the anti-cop campaign of the last two years and the resulting push-back in the streets, officers in urban areas are cutting back on precisely the kind of policing that led to the crime decline of the 1990s and 2000s. Arrests and summons are down, particularly for low-level offenses

indigenous says

Oh ok reason enough to dismiss the article, clearly you know more than they do...

I know there is nothing there to back up her assertion other than I say so. Your favourite kind of article. Arrests and summons are down. Really? Down how much? What urban areas? Compared to what? Compared to where? Over what time frame?

If you want to actually learn something, as opposed to looking for someone who's opinion backs up your opinion, read NYU law school research into crime reduction. released last year. https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/what-caused-crime-decline
Sorry but it's not a video, you actually have to read it and it's long. Page 77 (page 83 on a my pdf viewer) has NYC statistics. Note the pre comstat trends, post comstat trends, and number of police pre and post comstat. Yes I do think I know more than your article does, since the article doesn’t offer anything other than it's true because I say so, just like you.

indigenous says

Was this a bogus statistic as well?

"In New York City in 1990, for example, there were 2,245 homicides. In 2014 there were 333—a decrease of 85 percent. The drop in New York’s crime rate is the steepest in the nation, but crime has fallen at a historic rate nationwide as well—by about 40 percent—since the early 1990s. The greatest beneficiaries of these declining rates have been minorities. "

Absolutely bogus. Proving once again you don't know what statistics are or how they are used. Why start at 1990? Compstat didn't get fully up and running in NYC until 1995-1996 (NYC is very fuzzy about when it was actually fully in place and operational). What about the sharp decline between 1990 and 1996. Why not start at 1996 or whenever compstat was fully in place and operational? Why not compare the rate of decline pre compstat to post compstat? Sorry I forgot you don't understand rates. Crime fell at a historic rate nationwide, including cites not using compstat at all. What does that say? Do you ever think about what you read?

indigenous says

I will say that one of the biggest factors that goes unreported is demographics. People don't commit as much crime when they get older. Which makes me wonder about the huge increase in 20 somethings in near future.

Look in the brennan report and you will find that demographics had very little to do with the drop in crime. Which surprised me a lot. "I will say"???, yep that says it all. Nothing like in depth research.

indigenous says

I will add my anecdotal experience. My business was broken into a while back. It was one in a string of robberies of similiar type businesses. By using a computer model the police were able to predict the most likely next target and staked out that business and nailed the thieves red handed. Needless to say I like the idea of using data to manage crime.

Nothing at all wrong with using data to manage crime. It's a good idea. But it's only a small part of a much larger picture. at most 5-15% of the overall crime reduction the last 20 years in the cities that used it. It's not like some kind of magic.

Bottom line your absurd statement "the cops had a very workable policy in Compstat which was abandoned because of the back lives matter bullshit." remains just that. Absurd.

85   NuttBoxer   166/168 = 98% civil   2016 May 31, 1:16pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Strategist says

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city? We had that happen in Ferguson and Los Angeles. Pussy cat cops are no match for hordes of rioters bent on destruction. A display of overwhelming force is the best deterrent we have.

Are you high? After the King verdict I didn't see cop one in South Central, but I did see Korean's blasting looters from their store roofs. It's kind of the point of this thread that police will almost never put themselves in harms way. They'll wait for the national guard(again see King riots), before they set foot in any riot area.

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