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California Slaughter: The State-Sanctioned Genocide of Native Americans

By Blurtman   2016 Aug 17, 10:15pm   18 links   7,466 views   80 comments   watch (2)   quote      

The tally is relentlessly grim: a whole settlement wiped out in Trinity County “excepting a few children”; an Indian girl raped and left to die somewhere near Mendocino; as many as 50 killed at Goose Lake; and, two months later, as many as 257 murdered at Grouse Creek, scores of them women and children. There were the four white ranchers who tracked down a band of Yana to a cave, butchering 30. “In the cave with the meat were some Indian children,” reported a chronicle published later. One of the whites “could not bear to kill these children with his 56-calibre Spencer rifle. ‘It tore them up so bad.’ So he did it with his 38-calibre Smith and Wesson revolver.”

There have been books written about the systematic slaughter of California Indians, but none as gruesomely thorough as Benjamin Madley’s An American Genocide, from which the above accounts come. He estimates that between 9,000 and 16,000 Indians, though probably many more, were killed by vigilantes, state militiamen and federal soldiers between 1846 and 1873, in what he calls an “organized destruction” of the state’s largely peaceful indigenous peoples.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/26/california-native-americans-genocide-490824.html?google_editors_picks=true

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41   Patrick   1733/1733 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 4:54pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ironman says

When User A can post what ever they want but block User B, C, or D from responding to that post (through ignore), that's not an open conversation or free speech.

Ah, you're referring to the "hide me from that guy" part of ignore. (When you ignore a user, he disappears for you, but your comments also disappear from his view, at least while he's logged in.) Neither one can see the other.

So you're saying that since you can't see what Dan is saying when you're logged in, you don't get a chance to reply to what he's saying. I can see your point.

The reason that ignore is mutual is because people were uncomfortable using the ignore option if they felt the guy was then mocking their comments without their knowledge. So making ignore mutual seemed like a good idea, and so far it does seem to have encouraged people to use the ignore function and maybe chilled the flame wars a little.

I don't want to stifle debate, but maybe some individuals just should not interact with each other if there's no hope of their ever getting along. That doesn't stop you from saying anything you want to to everyone else.

42   just any guy   182/182 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 4:57pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

California Slaughter: The State-Sanctioned Genocide of Native Americans

43   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 4:57pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

I don't want to stifle debate, but maybe some individuals just should not interact with each other if there's no hope of their ever getting along.

Or wanting to debate in good faith...

44   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 5:15pm  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Why is it that you are putting forth reasoned arguments here but act like a child when actually responding to people's posts day-to-day? I take it that you want ignore removed so you can troll more people rather than really wanting a 'back and forth display of opinions on a topic.'

45   indigenous   249/249 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 5:39pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The crimes of the past done by people long dead have no relevance to the world now.

Yes dumb ass their legacy lives on.

46   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 5:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

indigenous says

crimes of the past done

THE PROPHECY OF RUNNING BEAR

in the times before

the white man came

when the red man lives in peace

and smoked the pipe

and hunted the buffalo

without wasting

we were told by our elders

that the white man will come

and make war

and destroy

and enslave the innocent woman

and make things bad

now that time has come

and we are sad

very sad

so we await the new time of the red man

and until then

we have

half off potato skins

at Apache Dawn Casino and Grill

with your purchase of surf and turf meal for two

and if you buy now

you will also receive

half off bud light

47   Blurtman   409/409 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

P N Dr Lo R says

The point is, white, western Europeans did so much more with the country than the Indians ever would have.

"Doing more" is relative and a matter of opinion. Nonetheless, if I promise to do more with your property and resources, I assume you will have no problem with me taking them. In fact, that is the one defense that will get one off for having robbed a bank.

48   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:14pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

"Doing more" is relative and a matter of opinion. Nonetheless, if I promise to do more with your property and resources, I assume you will have no problem with me taking them. In fact, that is the one defense that will get one off for having robbed a bank.

Pick your culture. Western culture or native American culture which included ample amounts of blood sacrifice and cannibalism. Relative indeed!

49   Blurtman   409/409 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:16pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Pick your culture. Western culture or native American culture which included ample amounts of blood sacrifice and cannibalism. Relative indeed!

I'd rather live in North America before the white man arrived. It is an extreme mischaracterization to describe the indigenous peoples as cannibals and savages.

50   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:16pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Francis Parkman, who was undoubtedly a product of his era, went into graphic detail describing the act of cannibalism amongst the American Indians. Particularly, after the battle of Fort William Henry where the Ottawa tribesman feasted on their English captives much to the horror of the French, who were powerless to stop them.

"...He Presently saw a large number of them squatted about a fire, before which meat was roasting on sticks stuck in the ground; and approaching, he saw that it was the flesh of an Englishman, other parts of which were boiling in a kettle, while near by sat eight or ten of the prisoners, forced to see their comrade devoured. The horror stricken priest began to remonstrate, on which a young savage fiercely replied in broken French: "You have French taste, I have Indian. This is good meat for me."; and the feasters pressed him to share it."

-Montcalm and Wolfe

51   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:17pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

It is an extreme mischaracterization to describe the indigenous peoples as cannibals and savages.

It's an extreme mischaracterization to idealize a version of native life which can only be seen in Disney movies.

Blurtman says

I'd rather live in North America before the white man arrived.

Then you clearly let bias and liberal regressive tribalism warp your brain function.

52   Blurtman   409/409 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:23pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Then you clearly let bias and liberal regressive tribalism warp your brain function.

No. I like clean water and air and trees and wildlife. And while I might work from dusk to dawn, I think it would be a better life.

53   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:29pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

No. I like clean water and air and trees and wildlife. And while I might work from dusk to dawn, I think it would be a better life.

So you are also in favor of the elimination of about 260,000,000 people to return the North American continent to it's limited farming/hunter-gatherer carrying capacity?

Pollution is a function of population and the Western world, better than any culture on earth, has managed to eliminate most of the harmful effects of large population and pollution.

Do you know why the Aztecs were in decline? Why the Inca and the Maya were almost extinct when Spain showed up? It's because they were incapable of sustainable farming and they destroyed their environment. There's a book called "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" that you need to read immediately.

You might also ask yourself why in 20,000 years of occupation, natives in North America existed in such small numbers. The real reason is that they were incapable of dealing with their own depletion of natural resources. It's a fact that's well studied and well supported.

54   zzyzzx   559/559 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:43pm  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Why would you be entitled to do that? I started with nothing. I worked at Jack in the Box and pumped gasoline. I couldn't afford to go to college until I was 30. My wealth belongs to me and only the events from 1966 onward leading to the acquisition of that wealth are relevant to any conversation.

Corrected:
I started with nothing. I worked at Jack in the Box and pumped gasoline. I married a rich lawyer.

55   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:44pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

an extreme mischaracterization

iwog says

act of cannibalism

most of this "nice indian" shit was cooked up by communists in the 60s and baked into the burgeoning Hippie movement.

Native americans were not nice. They are to this day highly unsavory types. yes they were cannibals. yes they were extremely violent.

most of what liberals assume about native americans is LSD induced circle jerking

56   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 18, 7:46pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

zzyzzx says

Corrected:

I started with nothing. I worked at Jack in the Box and pumped gasoline. I married a rich lawyer.

Nope, nice try however.

57   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 8:04pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ironman says

Wow, you being here for half a day makes you an expert!! Congratulations on YOUR trolling your FIRST day here!

Naah, I've been around long enough to see how you respond to posters. Your response to me was pretty typical of your posts.

58   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 8:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ironman says

I knew you were an Alt account, I can tell by your writing style.

Isn't it you that has all the alt accounts on here?

Ironman says

So why don't you cry about it.

Naah, you've been doing more than enough of that on this thread for everyone.

59   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 8:51pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ironman says

I knew you were an Alt account

so he can contradict himself without losing credibility

60   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 8:56pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The Original Bankster says

so he can contradict himself without losing credibility

My views are consistent. You however just post stuff you don't believe to get a rise from others.

61   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 9:03pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

everything I state I believe in 100%.

62   Rashomon   266/266 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 9:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Sure you do.

63   BlueSardine   505/512 = 98% civil   2016 Aug 18, 9:21pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

How about an annual "IgnoreFree" day where all 'ignores' are disabled?
It would allow a years worth of stockpiled ammunition to be detonated under a controlled setting...

Patrick says

I disagree. Users A's right to ignore user B does not stop user B from communicating with all other users.

You're free to speak, and other individuals are free to ignore you.

But user A should never have the right to prevent all other users from hearing user B.

64   TwoScoopsMcGee   1154/1154 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 9:22pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

There's a book called "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" that you need to read immediately.

A main point I took away from that book: Elites will often run the whole thing off the cliff than give up elite status.

Last egg of the sooty tern!

65   BlueSardine   505/512 = 98% civil   2016 Aug 18, 9:24pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Why inject Chicago into the thread??

FortWayne says

just remember there was a generation that slaughtered each other on a daily basis. And it wasn't racist either, everyone fucking slaughtered everyone.

66   neplusultra57     2016 Aug 18, 9:50pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

So you're saying that since you can't see what Dan is saying when you're logged in, you don't get a chance to reply to what he's saying. I can see your point.

With all due respect, Patrick, that's not his point. His point is that he can't at will force Dan to see him. That's what sends him into fits. Free speech is always required to accommodate privacy. A moron in America gets to yell his bilge but he isn't allowed to pierce the personal veil of privacy. It's to your credit that such a degree of privacy is supported on this forum. It's funny how Republicans cry about having to see homosexuals act like homosexuals, "forced viewing" it was called, but cry foul when they can't force others to watch them take a dump on stage.

Patrick says

I don't want to stifle debate

It absolutely does not stifle debate. Nothing you have ever done stifles debate.

67   just_passing_through   31/31 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 10:21pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Rashomon says

You're still free to say what you want to say. It just means other people don't have to listen.

Damn straight.

Words don't hurt me.

Seeing pictures of fat men's dicks does though.

68   just_passing_through   31/31 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 10:26pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

No. I like clean water and air and trees and wildlife. And while I might work from dusk to dawn, I think it would be a better life.

One thing about the Indians: They kept the lawn mowed!

(with fire)

69   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   174/174 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 10:33pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

thanks goodness for smallpox

can you imagine how high California's tax rates would have been if those people lived?

70   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 10:35pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

thank goodness for white people.

71   The Original Bankster   69/69 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 18, 10:35pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

72   Strategist   1233/1236 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 19, 5:27am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

Strategist says

So what are you suggesting?

Facing reality. Admitting how the USA started and explaining why this behavior is or is not OK. And taking an open mind about it.

Been there done that. Now what?

73   BlueSardine   505/512 = 98% civil   2016 Aug 19, 5:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

FIFY...

just_passing_through says

One thing about the Indians: They kept the lawn mowed!

(with fire buffalo)

74   Patrick   1733/1733 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 19, 7:22am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

thunderlips11 says

Last egg of the sooty tern

?

75   Patrick   1733/1733 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 19, 7:28am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ranina ranina says

How about an annual "IgnoreFree" day where all 'ignores' are disabled?

I'm thinking that perhaps ignores should time out after a year. People change, maybe they'll get along after that. And one click year isn't too much work if you want to ignore someone again.

In The Evolution of Cooperation ( https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Cooperation-Robert-Axelrod/dp/0465021212 ) Axelrod proves that tit-for-tat is the best strategy for dealing with Prisoner's Dilemma in theory, but occasional attempts to cooperate after the other side has "defected" (as he puts it) might manage to establish mutual cooperation, which is the best for everyone.

76   Blurtman   409/409 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 19, 9:18am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

Been there done that. Now what?

Hoe about something like this: "Our country has profited greatly from taking other people's land and resources, and killing them in the process. I say we return to these tried and true roots of what made us great, and so, fellow Americans, if elected....."

77   Strategist   1233/1236 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 19, 9:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

Strategist says

Been there done that. Now what?

Hoe about something like this: "Our country has profited greatly from taking other people's land and resources, and killing them in the process. I say we return to these tried and true roots of what made us great, and so, fellow Americans, if elected....."

I say we maintain our constitution, capitalism and democracy. Our true wealth and prosperity will be derived, not from stealing other peoples wealth, but by producing wealth through hard and smart work. Lets give every citizen a chance to succeed without giving them handouts.

78   Blurtman   409/409 = 100% civil   2016 Aug 19, 11:13am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

I say we maintain our constitution, capitalism and democracy. Our true wealth and prosperity will be derived, not from stealing other peoples wealth, but by producing wealth through hard and smart work. Lets give every citizen a chance to succeed without giving them handouts.

I dunno. Without the killing, raping and stealing part, I am afraid this will not sell.

79   Strategist   1233/1236 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 19, 4:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Blurtman says

Strategist says

I say we maintain our constitution, capitalism and democracy. Our true wealth and prosperity will be derived, not from stealing other peoples wealth, but by producing wealth through hard and smart work. Lets give every citizen a chance to succeed without giving them handouts.

I dunno. Without the killing, raping and stealing part, I am afraid this will not sell.

In that case, lets take all the Saudi oil and give it to all humans. Natural resources belong to all humans.

80   iwog   1469/1470 = 99% civil   2016 Aug 19, 5:09pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The thing about injustice is that every race, religion, and color has suffered it at some point or another. I'm Irish so when do I get a check??

Someone pay me reparations. I think y'all owe Patrick money too.



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