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We have to prosecute Trump to find out what he's guilty of.

By Tenpoundbass   May 19, 3:50pm   1 link   969 views   45 comments   watch (1)   quote      

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6   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 19, 9:30pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Quigley says

He may be an orange clown, but he's not a criminal clown and he's not a SJW Democrap clown. Best choice we had thanks to the lying cheating DNC!

I think you missed the fact that he already broke the law on twitter. All the aspects of witness tampering are evident.

All that's missing is an actual crime involved in the Russia investigation and it doesn't have to be Donald Trump committing it either. If Flynn is guilty, and Trump attempted to intervene via a threat, he's committed a felony and an entire mountain of bullshit denials can't save him.

7   Strategist   1249/1252 = 99% civil   May 19, 9:33pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Quigley says

He may be an orange clown, but he's not a criminal clown and he's not a SJW Democrap clown. Best choice we had thanks to the lying cheating DNC!

I think you missed the fact that he already broke the law on twitter. All the aspects of witness tampering are evident.

All that's missing is an actual crime involved in the Russia investigation and it doesn't have to be Donald Trump committing it either. If Flynn is guilty, and Trump attempted to intervene via a threat, he's committed a felony and an entire mountain of bullshit denials can't save him.

That's a lot of accusations. you will need a lot more than that.

8   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 19, 9:48pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

That's a lot of accusations. you will need a lot more than that.

No, I don't. No one does and the simplicity of the crime of witness tampering and/or obstruction is ENTIRELY contained in his twitter threat.

Threatening a witness with the release of "recordings" if he talks to anyone is a felony. Period. End of conversation. The only thing that can save Trump now is if there wasn't an actual crime being committed and therefore Comey had nothing to testify to.

If Comey is able to come up with an actual crime, Donald Trump committed a felony by trying to shut him up. Even an idle threat is blackmail.

Now you're welcome to try to rebut the very specific details of what I just presented, but you wont.

9   Strategist   1249/1252 = 99% civil   May 19, 9:59pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Strategist says

That's a lot of accusations. you will need a lot more than that.

No, I don't. No one does and the simplicity of the crime of witness tampering and/or obstruction is ENTIRELY contained in his twitter threat.

Threatening a witness with the release of "recordings" if he talks to anyone is a felony. Period. End of conversation. The only thing that can save Trump now is if there wasn't an actual crime being committed and therefore Comey had nothing to testify to.

If Comey is able to come up with an actual crime, Donald Trump committed a felony by trying to shut him up. Even an idle threat is blackmail.

Now you're welcome to try to rebut the very specific details of what I just presented, but you wont.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I'm willing to bet nothing will come of this, and it will all disappear into the BS of dirty politics.

10   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 19, 10:01pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I'm willing to bet nothing will come of this, and it will all disappear into the BS of dirty politics.

That's quite a detailed argument you made.

It boils down to "just cuz".

BTW what dirty politics forced Trump to tweet a blackmail threat?

11   Strategist   1249/1252 = 99% civil   May 19, 10:12pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Strategist says

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I'm willing to bet nothing will come of this, and it will all disappear into the BS of dirty politics.

That's quite a detailed argument you made.

It boils down to "just cuz".

BTW what dirty politics forced Trump to tweet a blackmail threat?

Iwog, i honesty never get into details of dirty politics. I am an Independent, who dislikes politics.
Politics is a corrupt, back stabbing, disgusting piece of shit that i wish was not necessary.

12   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 20, 11:27am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Threatening a witness with the release of "recordings" if he talks to anyone is a felony. Period. End of conversation.

Has a suit been brought against Trump as a result of this "threat"?

13   TwoScoopsMcGee   1165/1165 = 100% civil   May 20, 11:33am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

But I'm sure Alan Dershowitz has no idea what he's talking about.

14   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 20, 11:41am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Alan Dershowitz is going on the presumption that there are no criminal acts, meaning Trump's blackmail has no impact and Comey wasn't an actual witness in a criminal case.

One single instance of criminal wrongdoing in the Trump administration and you're fucked. Trump was trying to bully a witness into not testifying. End. A billion people probably witnessed the tweet.

Again I'm going to invite anyone to address this one single point to which none of you seem capable of doing.

15   TwoScoopsMcGee   1165/1165 = 100% civil   May 20, 11:47am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

There is no point to address. Mueller is looking into Russia's influence on the election. End of Story.

Trump did not Bully a witness into not testifying, because there was no venue that had Comey scheduled to testify.

A reminder to watch what you say because there may be evidence that will prove your testimony wrong isn't bullying.

16   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 20, 12:10pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Trump did not Bully a witness into not testifying, because there was no venue that had Comey scheduled to testify.

This isn't relevant. It's like saying a killer who blackmails a witness before he's caught isn't committing a crime. This is asinine and not supported by any legal theory.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

A reminder to watch what you say because there may be evidence that will prove your testimony wrong isn't bullying.

Once again I will fucking refer you to the definition of witness tampering. Since you have no interest in actually learning anything and looking it up yourself, I'll do it for you:

Witness tampering is the act of attempting to alter or prevent the testimony of witnesses within criminal or civil proceedings. Laws regarding witness tampering also apply to proceedings before Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies.

Did Donald Trump attempt to alter or prevent the testimony of a witness? The answer is yes. The answer is FUCK yes and you are continuing to blindly assert non-relevant issues because either you know he's a dead duck OR you're so blind in your support of Trump that you refuse to correctly analyze what is essentially a freshman law student exercise. As I've repeatedly said, the only thing that could possibly save you is if Comey wasn't involved in the prosecution of an actual crime. We'll soon see. Any actual criminal prosecution and Trump is finished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_tampering

17   YesYNot   1024/1025 = 99% civil   May 20, 12:11pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Trump did not Bully a witness into not testifying, because there was no venue that had Comey scheduled to testify.

I agree with this. Trump does not think ahead, and Comey had not been called to testify. Ergo, Trump was not thinking about Comey's testimony.

18   Quigley   476/481 = 98% civil   May 20, 1:02pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

By iwog definition, threatening anyone with retribution for Lying is potential witness tampering because at some point they might be called to be a witness!
Somehow I don't think iwog is a member of the bar, and his law degree was printed by Toys R Us.

19   Fucking White Male   227/228 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:22pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Quigley says

By iwog definition, threatening anyone with retribution for Lying is potential witness tampering because at some point they might be called to be a witness!

Somehow I don't think iwog is a member of the bar, and his law degree was printed by Toys R Us.

Not that something else might turn up, but right now no identifiable crime has been committed and IWOG is very wrong at this point.

If any crime has been committed thus far, the Dems and never Trumpers would already be in an alliance.

20   CBOEtrader   710/711 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:26pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Trump was trying to bully a witness into not testifying.

It doesn't work like that.

Trump would have to either bribe him or show a legit threat of physical/financial harm for your theory to have teeth.

As is, Trump is simply calling him a liar.

21   CBOEtrader   710/711 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:27pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Did Donald Trump attempt to alter or prevent the testimony of a witness? The answer is yes.

Lol absolutely not. That's silly.

You'd have to show a pattern of veiled threats or a substantive threat of physical retaliation or a bribe... Not a goddamn tweet response to that bull shit memo story.

22   CBOEtrader   710/711 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:32pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Any actual criminal prosecution and Trump is finished.

Didn't they just report that a criminal probe was launched? Afaik they did not report who the subject is.

23   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:37pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Quigley says

By iwog definition, threatening anyone with retribution for Lying is potential witness tampering because at some point they might be called to be a witness!

Somehow I don't think iwog is a member of the bar, and his law degree was printed by Toys R Us.

1. What you did here is sneakily change the equation. It's a good thing I'm brilliant or I might have missed it. There was NEVER any indication that Comey was going to lie about events. In fact Comey had said nothing at all other than he wanted to talk to a congressional committee. This wasn't a flame war where Comey was making allegations about Trump, therefore the only logical reading of Donald Trump's intent was to prevent Comey from testifying AT ALL! This is critical so make sure you read this paragraph twice. Any rebuttal you offer, such as "notes", will be detailing events long after Donald Trump's tweet. At the time Trump threatened Comey, the ONLY possible meaning would be "keep your mouth shut". This is a felony and your "please don't lie sir" interpretation is bullshit.

2. Comey was leading an investigation into Russian corruption of the United States government, of which Donald Trump is currently the head. This means there was an ongoing criminal investigation and still is. Richard Nixon did not break into Watergate however Richard Nixon attempted to tamper with witnesses and prosecutors DURING an active investigation into corruption within Nixon's administration. There is one and only one difference between these two events in history and that is with Nixon, there was an actual crime while today the FBI is still trying to determine if any laws were broken. This is what I mean when I say discovering criminal activity within the Trump administration, even if Trump wasn't involved, will fuck both Donald Trump and your defense of Donald Trump square up the ass. For example there are VERY strong indications that Flynn is very, very dirty and that Trump knew this. Donald Trump firing and then threatening Comey during an investigation into criminal corruption by Michael Flynn, even if Trump didn't know the details, still makes him guilty of a felony.

3. Your "rebuttal of my points are summarized below. I don't think you'll find any errors:

- Threatening anyone with retribution for lying is witness tampering so fuck you.
Analysis: Straw man. This isn't "anyone without an ongoing case. This is a key figure within an ongoing case who was fired by the man who threatened him. Fail.

- Iwog isn't a member of the bar.
Analysis: Oh snap!!!! Ad hominem. Take that fucker.

24   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 20, 2:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

CBOEtrader says

Didn't they just report that a criminal probe was launched? Afaik they did not report who the subject is.

A new criminal probe was launched with an independent prosecutor. Everyone knows there was an old criminal probe by Comey. That's why he was fired. That's why he was threatened with tapes. This is identical to what Nixon did.

25   Quigley   476/481 = 98% civil   May 21, 11:26am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

What you did here is sneakily change the equation. It's a good thing I'm brilliant or I might have missed it.

Sooo sneaky. I even capitalized the word so you'd jump on it. You took the bait like a Northern pike takes a frog: mouth wide open and absolutely no grace.

It's not about Lying! It's about applying the laws equally to everyone in the same circumstances! Telling someone publically not to lie about you isn't the same thing as witness tampering, even if you back that up with a promise that tapes exist that prove the truth. Comey was leaking fake news as usual and Trump has no subtlety.

My example was no straw man. Laws aren't created for single time instances, but to apply widely, thus they must be applicable to more than one situation.

26   TwoScoopsMcGee   1165/1165 = 100% civil   May 21, 11:44am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

This isn't relevant. It's like saying a killer who blackmails a witness before he's caught isn't committing a crime. This is asinine and not supported by any legal theory.

Blackmail over what? "We have information that will contradict any likely potential testimony to the contrary." - OMG!! Witness tampering! Put every other lawyer in prison!
Did Comey, under oath, already say he was never pressured to alter any investigations? Yep!

Quigley says

It's not about Lying! It's about applying the laws equally to everyone in the same circumstances! Telling someone publically not to lie about you isn't the same thing as witness tampering, even if you back that up with a promise that tapes exist that prove the truth. Comey was leaking fake news as usual and Trump has no subtlety.

Exactly.

iwog says

Witness tampering is the act of attempting to alter or prevent the testimony of witnesses within criminal or civil proceedings. Laws regarding witness tampering also apply to proceedings before Congress, executive departments, and administrative agencies.

To start with, what proceedings? Comey was not scheduled to attend ANY criminal or civil court or Congressional Hearing, regarding Trump or Russia. Right off the bat it doesn't apply.

27   TwoScoopsMcGee   1165/1165 = 100% civil   May 21, 11:51am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

On more point.

This is a guy who avoided divorce rape, is a master of using bankruptcy laws, etc. And yet there are people who think he's dumb as a box of rocks.

28   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 1:14pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Blackmail over what? "We have information that will contradict any likely potential testimony to the contrary."

You keep going back to this and I keep pointing out that your assumption is shit.

You PRETEND that Trump's threat was "tell the truth or else" while nearly everyone in the world is correctly concluding "don't tell my secrets or else".

Are you able to comprehend the MASSIVE difference between the two and why no one agrees with you? In the first instance the tweet serves no purpose whatsoever. If Comey lies, Trump simply produces his tapes then. It's only in the second instance that the tweet makes any sense at all.

29   TwoScoopsMcGee   1165/1165 = 100% civil   May 21, 3:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

You PRETEND that Trump's threat was "tell the truth or else" while nearly everyone in the world is correctly concluding "don't tell my secrets or else".

Not at all what those not in the grip of the Orange Scare hear. I hear that Trump is warning Comey not to lie about being pressured, because evidence to the contrary may exist.

At no point in the tweet is there a threat of physical force or bribe or other threat. And for starters, Comey wasn't scheduled to be at any hearing, civil or criminal court so the whole thing is baseless to begin with.

Furthermore, you keep failing to address the FACT that Comey already testified under oath that he was never pressured over any investigation.

30   Tenpoundbass   963/964 = 99% civil   May 21, 3:43pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

This is all over Joe Biden is worried Dey go put us all back in chains.

31   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 4:05pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Not at all what those not in the grip of the Orange Scare hear. I hear that Trump is warning Comey not to lie about being pressured, because evidence to the contrary may exist.

Why?

Seriously what's the motive? Why wouldn't Trump let him lie then hang himself when he produced the recordings? I'll answer for you: "Just cuz!!!"

The much much much more plausible and logical and quite frankly 100% true interpretation of events are that Donald Trump tried to shut him up. It's very cute and very naive and trite and childish to say Trump was trying to protect him from lying but it's also a steaming pile of spin bullshit. Donald Trump warned him that if he testified to actual events, he'd provide something embarrassing he recorded. Or he just lied. Either way it's blackmail.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

At no point in the tweet is there a threat of physical force or bribe or other threat.

Again you are demonstrating that you don't have the slightest idea of what blackmail is or what makes it blackmail. Photographs of an executive in bed with a prostitute are true, factual, and completely without prejudice. Blackmailing someone with nude photographs is still a felony. It doesn't need to be a threat or a bribe OTHER than a threat of releasing something embarrassing. This is established law and you're pretending it doesn't exist.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Furthermore, you keep failing to address the FACT that Comey already testified under oath that he was never pressured over any investigation.

I consider it Comey protecting his job. An alternative interpretation is that Comey was telling the truth which doesn't in the slightest eliminate Trump's tweeted blackmail. Either way, this fact has nothing whatsoever to do with the crimes committed by Donald Trump.

32   YesYNot   1024/1025 = 99% civil   May 21, 4:13pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

TwoScoopsMcGee says

I hear that Trump is warning Comey not to lie about being pressured, because evidence to the contrary may exist.

I hear a lame attempt at implying that Comey is a liar without outright calling him one. I hope the tapes are subpoenaed, so he can tell everyone it was an empty insult. I agree though that saying he has tapes is not a threat unless it is tapes of an unrelated matter.

33   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 4:17pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

What's the threat? That Trump taped the conversation? If Comey has nothing to hide, then he shouldn't care. That's not bullying.

34   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 4:20pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

What's the threat? That Trump taped the conversation? If Comey has nothing to hide, then he shouldn't care. That's not bullying.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??????

"If Comey has nothing to hide, then he shouldn't care if Trump releases photographs of him with the prostitute."

This is a FELONY! It's so simple that none of you can fucking hide from it. You just dance around the central issue like it doesn't exist, but it does exist so stop screwing around and talk about the central fucking point. Did Donald Trump or did not Donald Trump attempt to coerce a witness into not revealing certain details in testimony by threatening to release a fucking tape?

YES OR NO????????????????????????????????????

35   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 4:30pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I don't see coercion. He's just saying that there could be recordings that refute what Comey might tell the public or Congress. The naked pics analogy is totally different.

36   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 4:48pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

The naked pics analogy is totally different.

You'll probably keel over and die if you explained how they are totally different.

37   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 4:54pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

just any guy says

The naked pics analogy is totally different.

You'll probably keel over and die if you explained how they are totally different.

I don't think I'm gonna die today. The tapes are evidence to refute the accusation. The naked pics would have nothing to do with the accusation and would be considered blackmail. Not sure why this is so complicated.

38   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 5:06pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

The tapes are evidence to refute the accusation.

There was no fucking accusation in fact there wasn't even any scheduled testimony. It is LITERALLY the same as a criminal telling a witness not to go to the police or he'll release nude photos. Every single aspect is intact. This is textbook blackmail.

just any guy says

The naked pics would have nothing to do with the accusation and would be considered blackmail

Every time you or Twoscoops attempts to answer this question, you inject a bullshit premise into it and create a straw man. The tapes are presumably something Comey doesn't want released. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in a blackmail charge that requires the revealed secret to be connected nor not connected to the demand.
You pulled this out of your ass and made it up.

- The goods = something Comey doesn't want revealed. This can be a video of Comey being peed on, nude pictures of his wife, or tapes with something embarrassing on them.

- The demand = something Comey is being ordered not to do. Don't go to the cops, don't bid against me at the auction, don't date my daughter anymore, don't testify before congress OR don't reveal too much.

39   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 5:08pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Extortion Law - Definition. Extortion (also called blackmail, shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection.

Services: Refrain or modify testimony before congress.
Coercion: Threatening to release "tapes".

Any fucking questions or do you need me to define coercion next? I haven't even begun to discuss witness tampering or obstruction of justice.

40   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 5:36pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

- The goods = something Comey doesn't want revealed. This can be a video of Comey being peed on, nude pictures of his wife, or tapes with something embarrassing on them.

Wait. Let's assume Comey is lying and the "tapes" refute it. You're telling me that the tapes shouldn't be entered into evidence because something embarrassing to Comey might be on there?

41   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 5:38pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

Wait. Let's assume Comey is lying and the "tapes" refute it.

He hasn't testified yet. Lets assume something that hasn't happened yet? So you're with piggy on this and you want to believe in quantum reality with respect to blackmail now?

just any guy says

You're telling me that the tapes shouldn't be entered into evidence because something embarrassing to Comey might be on there?

Clearly ALL recordings made by the president (thank you Supreme Court) are public record and therefore should be part of any legal investigation. "You're telling me......" is the greeting card of a straw man.

42   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 5:42pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I'm still not sure where this argument leaves us. I think you're grasping at straws.

43   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 5:44pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

I'm still not sure where this argument leaves us. I think you're grasping at straws.

You've lost the plot because you keep creating straw men. Stop it.

iwog says

Extortion Law - Definition. Extortion (also called blackmail, shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence of unlawfully obtaining money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection.

Services: Refrain or modify testimony before congress.

Coercion: Threatening to release "tapes".

44   just any guy   185/185 = 100% civil   May 21, 5:47pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

You've lost the plot because you keep creating straw men. Stop it.

No. You haven't presented a case.

45   iwog   1474/1475 = 99% civil   May 21, 5:49pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

just any guy says

No. You haven't presented a case.

But you'll keel over and die before addressing the very straight forward case I presented above. Shall I now cover your "arguments" point by point?

"It's not blackmail because the tapes had something to do with the case!" Give me a fucking break.

just any guy says

The naked pics would have nothing to do with the accusation

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