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Islam

By resistance   2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   50 links   198,943 views   724 comments   watch (3)   quote      

Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,
The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation

الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

#religion

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

« First     « Previous     Comments 685-724 of 724     Last »

685   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Feb 16, 4:09pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

curious2 says

Notice the stated reason for the attack had nothing to do with most of the people who were killed or wounded. Also, probably more than 90% of the dead and wounded were Muslim, showing yet again that submitting to Islam is no defense against getting killed in the name of Islam.

The dead are all martyrs. Allah will reward them.

Sam Harris made exactly that point when he called Islam a "motherlode of bad ideas." From an Islamic perspective, if the "martyr" kills a crowd of 100 people, and 90 of them are faithful Muslims, then he did them a favor because they go to paradise. Islam says the other 10 deserved to be killed anyway, whether for apostasy or blasphemy or being disbelievers, and so they got what they deserved. The "martyr" goes to paradise too, of course, with a kingdom from Syria to Yemen (we're currently fighting to expand the Clintons' Saudi clients' kingdom to control those territories), and 72 whores. So, it's win-win-win.

Frankly, it's tough to deter foes who fall so in love with death that they can't wait to get there. The MAD doctrine of nuclear deterrence worked vs the officially atheist Soviet Union, but does not work against suicidal Muslims.

686   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   Feb 16, 4:37pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

From an Islamic perspective, if the "martyr" kills a crowd of 100 people, and 90 of them are faithful Muslims, then he did them a favor because they go to paradise. Islam says the other 10 deserved to be killed anyway, whether for apostasy or blasphemy or being disbelievers, and so they got what they deserved. The "martyr" goes to paradise too, of course, with a kingdom from Syria to Yemen (we're currently fighting to expand the Clintons' Saudi clients' kingom to control those territories), and 72 whores. So, it's win-win-win.

Islamic logic at it's finest folks. you can't make this shit up.

curious2 says

Frankly, it's tough to deter foes who fall so in love with death that they can't wait to get there. The MAD doctrine of nuclear deterrence worked vs the officially atheist Soviet Union, but does not work against suicidal Muslims.

This is why the greatest mistake ever made was to allow Pakistan to develop nukes. Hopefully, Trump will stop it's spread and eventually control Pakistani nukes.
A mad barbarian is bad enough, but a mad barbarian with nukes is a disaster waiting to happen.

687   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 4:17am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

688   BlueSardine   651/664 = 98% civil   Apr 2, 6:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Let em all in...tear down the perimeter walls and retrain the border guards as morticians.
They'll be less of a need for one, and more for the other...

curious2 says

FYI - just another day in the Islamic "Republic"

689   BlueSardine   651/664 = 98% civil   Apr 2, 6:25am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

This is what it will take to mitigate the liberal infested Inherited Ancestral Guilt Syndrome...

BlueSardine says

Let em all in...tear down the perimeter walls and retrain the border guards as morticians.

They'll be less of a need for one, and more for the other...

curious2 says

FYI - just another day in the Islamic "Republic"

690   Quigley   704/709 = 99% civil   Apr 2, 9:47am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

. The MAD doctrine of nuclear deterrence worked vs the officially atheist Soviet Union, but does not work against suicidal Muslims.

The first Islamic nuke used should result in a catastrophic response whereby we reduce the entire Arabian peninsula to glass and carpet bomb population centers of Pakistan for good measure. The Crusaders showed us that sufficient punishment will drive the Saracen back to ground.

691   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 11:35am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

The Clinton administration bombed Serbia to protect the Bosniak Sunni Muslims,

And their Wahabi allies.

Bosnia is now a recruiting center. And you may remember the Bosniak girls who joined ISIS and became War Wives, then executed because they weren't Islamic enough.
http://www.dw.com/en/a-salafist-village-in-bosnia/av-19192251

Croatian Ustache celebrating their Neighboring Bosnian SS volunteers.

The guy in the white hat is the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Israel, of course, did not exist yet.

692   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 11:40am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Finally, this video from "88SSWaffen" 88 is crypto-nazi term for Heil Hitler as "H" is the 8th letter of the alphabet.

He also has the Hezbollah flag as his Avatar.

Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who tried to lead an anti-British revolt in Iraq, flees safely to Nazi Germany and meets with Ribbentropp

693   Dan8267   3159/3202 = 98% civil   Apr 2, 12:41pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch posts video

Mujahideen

Thank you Charlie Wilson.

I swear, how this guy ever became a representative in Congress is beyond me. He can't even sing without autotune.

694   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 12:43pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

"20 devotees murdered by Sufi shrine custodians using knives, batons in Pakistan

***

Chatta said the custodian was allegedly in the practice of “beating and torturing” devotees to “cleanse” them.

Nevermind Pakistan. Nevermind people being imprisoned for blasphemy and converting from Islam. Nevermind Lashkar-e-Taiba supported by the ISI and the Mumbai Attacks and the faked "Terrorists beyond our control" assault in Kargil that were actually 100% Pakistani Soldiers.

RUSSIA!!!

695   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 2:28pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

696   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 2, 3:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

697   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 20, 7:01pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

698   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   Apr 20, 7:08pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

699   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 20, 7:15pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

The world still hates the USA more for trying to stop this. :(

Outside of the NATO MIC propaganda machine, most of the world knows we got involved in Syria because of Petrodollar pipeline deals, and the Iraq War and Hillary's War enabled too many Muslims to get out from under secular dictators and start doing what Islam says. It's only NATO voters who imagine we went there to help Syrians, or Libyans, or Iraqis.

700   Patrick   2065/2065 = 100% civil   Apr 20, 9:00pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Strategist says

At least 109 of those killed were evacuees from the pro-regime Shia villages of Al-Fu'ah and Kafraya

I don't know why, but the Shiites do not seem to kill random innocent people nearly as much as our Sunni "friends" like the Saudis and their allies do.

Something about Wahhabi Islam is truly deeply evil to the core.

701   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 20, 9:30pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

Shiites do not seem to kill random innocent people nearly as much as our Sunni "friends" like the Saudis and their allies do

Shiites are a vulnerable minority within Islam, 20% of the total Muslim population, highly concentrated in two target countries. If Shiites attempted a 9/11 attack, it would invite total annihilation of their sect by NATO and the Saudis. Within Shiite countries, Shia prove about as lethal as their Sunni counterparts, killing innocent people, but it isn't called terrorism because it's done by government and Sharia patrols. For example, when we "liberated" Iraq, Mahdi Army and other Sharia patrols began killing gay men and/or telling the parents to kill the gay kids or else the Sharia patrol would murder the whole family for failing to enforce Sharia. America did rescue some of them, but the Democrats want to import believing Muslims to kill them here.

702   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Apr 22, 5:51pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

"Dressed in military uniforms, a squad of 10 Taliban militants drove in two army Ford Ranger trucks past seven checkpoints. They arrived inside northern Afghanistan’s largest military installation just as hundreds, perhaps thousands, of unarmed soldiers were emerging from Friday Prayers and preparing for lunch.

For the next five hours, the militants went on a rampage, killing at least 140 soldiers and officers in what is emerging as the single deadliest known attack on an Afghan military base in the country’s 16-year war. Some assailants blew themselves up among the soldiers fleeing for their lives, according to survivors, witnesses and officials.
***
Other officials feared that the death toll could exceed 200.

The attack punctuated the dismal outlook for Afghanistan, where much of the population of 34 million has known only war.

Over the last two years, Taliban fighters have gained more territory in the countryside and now threaten several cities. Afghanistan’s forces, suffering enormous casualties and grappling with a leadership marred by indecision and corruption, have struggled to put up a defense.

More than 6,700 members of the Afghan security forces lost their lives in 2016, a record high that is nearly three times the total American casualties for the war.
***
In a new sign of how badly the Afghan military is faltering, the commander of the NATO coalition forces in Afghanistan, Gen. John W. Nicholson, has requested a few thousand additional American soldiers to assist in training Afghan recruits.
***
In March, militants entered the Afghan Army’s main hospital in Kabul, the capital, and killed more than 50 people in a siege that lasted nearly seven hours and was claimed by the Islamic State.
***
Those attacks, like the one on Friday, were made possible by insider help, security officials say.
***
Among the dead was Qari Ahmad Khan, 22, who joined the army after completing his studies at an Islamic school, where he had specialized in memorizing the Quran, said his brother, Mohamed Khan, 43."

703   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   Apr 22, 6:05pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

"Dressed in military uniforms, a squad of 10 Taliban militants drove in two army Ford Ranger trucks past seven checkpoints. They arrived inside northern Afghanistan’s largest military installation just as hundreds, perhaps thousands, of unarmed soldiers were emerging from Friday Prayers and preparing for lunch.

Anybody still want to get rid of Assad and replace him with some 20-year Western Exiles like Chalabi or Kharzai?

It was probably the Russians.

I note the lack of coverage of all the Coptic Attacks in Egypt, or sympathy and coverage both for the St. Pete attacks (where conspiracy theories were actually encouraged by the MSM), and the bombing of the Shi'ite Convoy in Syira with 68+ dead kids, lured to the car bomb with potato chips. The #MSM basically went with unaltered wire stories, didn't even bother to rewrite them, with most outlets.

Bad for the narrative. Neocons need to shift to Russia, they are in bed with Saudi and know there's pretty much no tolerance for boots on the ground in the MENA beyond trainers and maybe some SF Advisors.

704   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   Apr 22, 6:37pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

"Dressed in military uniforms, a squad of 10 Taliban militants drove in two army Ford Ranger trucks past seven checkpoints. They arrived inside northern Afghanistan’s largest military installation just as hundreds, perhaps thousands, of unarmed soldiers were emerging from Friday Prayers and preparing for lunch.

They went past 7 checkpoints? Fucking stupid.

705   zzyzzx   790/790 = 100% civil   Apr 25, 9:23am  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote    

706   socal2   221/223 = 99% civil   Apr 25, 9:37am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

707   Patrick   2065/2065 = 100% civil   Apr 25, 9:38am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Literally "islam" means "submission" in Arabic. Or "giving up when being threatened with death".

"Salam" means peace in Arabic.

The two words are related, but only in the sense that people who have given up are not resisting any more.

Islam is a virus of the mind, very much like rabies, usually latent, but still causing a large number of people infected with it to foam at the mouth and become extremely violent and to try to spread the virus. Just the opposite of peace.

Churchill himself came to the same conclusion ("hydrophobia" being an old term for rabies):

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

https://www.quora.com/Why-had-Churchill-said-Islam-to-a-man-is-like-rabies-to-a-dog-Islam-is-a-deadly-disease

The most important thing is that we all tell the truth about Islam, and not repeat the lies that our Saudi-owned leaders and media want us to say.

708   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   May 9, 10:36am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

709   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   May 9, 11:04am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

710   Patrick   2065/2065 = 100% civil   May 9, 11:22am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

And the Saudis and Qataris get their military protection from their deal with our leaders to price oil in dollars and invest their revenue in US Treasuries.

711   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   May 9, 11:30am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

And the Saudis and Qataris get their military protection from their deal with our leaders to price oil in dollars and invest their revenue in US Treasuries.

...and other investments, including publicly traded equities on the NYSE and a vast web of small but well connected companies, reportedly including Bush 43's "Arbusto" oil back in the 1980s while Bush 41 was Vice President.

curious2 says

"What's the difference between a radical muslim and a moderate muslim? The radical muslim wants to kill you; the moderate muslim wants the radical muslim to kill you."

The irony is, if we had the oil and they had the guns, they'd simply take the oil and enslave as many of us as they wanted, killing the remainder. We insist on paying them, enriching and empowering them to kill us, due to our leaders being corrupted by Petrodollar baksheesh.

I suspect it was the same in Europe prior to the Barbary Wars: the British and French paid the Barbary States for a shipping monopoly, which the Barbary Pirates enforced by capturing and enslaving the crews of other countries. Diplomacy enabled each side to call the payments what they wanted (licensing fee, enforcement fee, jizya), while baksheesh made sure the decisionmakers who mattered were enthusiastically on the payroll, and only people who were enthusiastically on the payroll could get promoted to decisionmaking roles that mattered.

712   Booger   497/497 = 100% civil   May 9, 5:15pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

713   Booger   497/497 = 100% civil   May 9, 5:17pm  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

714   Booger   497/497 = 100% civil   May 9, 6:40pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

If you flood your country with a bunch of feral men who can't get laid, why are people surprised when they start raping?

715   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   May 9, 7:18pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Patrick says

And the Saudis and Qataris get their military protection from their deal with our leaders to price oil in dollars and invest their revenue in US Treasuries.

In other words, we are subsidizing the fucking Royalty so they may live in their palaces, while their slaves feed them grapes.

716   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   May 9, 7:23pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

The irony is, if we had the oil and they had the guns, they'd simply take the oil and enslave as many of us as they wanted

Trust me on this......I don't make a very good slave. But i would make a good master for a few dozen beautiful Arab women.

717   Patrick   2065/2065 = 100% civil   May 23, 10:18am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I suppose it is time to bump this again.

Should have done it for the last thousand murders by Muslims, but then it would be at the top of the home page every day.

This guy does a pretty good job of documenting the daily murders committed by Muslims explicitly in the name of Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

718   TwoScoopsMcGee   1612/1612 = 100% civil   May 23, 10:32am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

It's time to demolish the homes where terrorists lived in.

There has to be consequences for failing to report. Like San Ber, the relatives couldn't have not known, as the two had bomb materials and weaponry all over the place and other relatives lived there.

Also, the police need to monitor property transfers and bank accounts of all relatives to prevent terror reward money from the Middle East.

719   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   May 26, 12:26pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

't was the week before Bombadan, and all through Islam:

In Iraq, a suicide bombing killed more than 50 people.

In the UK, a suicide bombing at a concert in Manchester killed more than 20 people.

In the Philippines, an Islamic rampage killed more than 20 people, took more than 100 Christian hostages, and drove thousands of people from their homes.

In Pakistan, Asia Bibi remained on death row for blasphemy, where the late Governor Salman Taseer is still dead. Millions continued to endure the daily oppression of an Islamic "republic" where more than 80% of the population demand Sharia.

In Indonesia, former Governor Ahok remains in prison for blasphemy, mainly because he was a Christian. He has been replaced by a new Muslim governor, as per Islam.

And much, much more! You can read further in the Global Terrorism Database, until it gets censored.

720   BayAreaObserver   666/666 = 100% civil   Jun 17, 5:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Separating Islam and state may be a way forward. The politicisation of religion to seek Muslim electoral support is blatant, and this has given rise to high levels of intra-religious and inter-religious intolerance. The "religionisation" of politics by Muslim governments has seen desperate moves to implement Islamic (syariah) laws in careless ways that have caused these countries to regress with regard to human rights issues. Worse, the unthinking application of hudud laws, or the serious intention to legislate them, has set the Muslim world back to mediaeval times. Hudud laws are Islamic criminal laws that mandate harsh punishments, such as whipping for adultery.

These crises and tragedies have arisen during the period of time that began during the oil boom years of the 1980s, when virulent ideologies were exported from the Middle East/Gulf regions to many parts of the Muslim world. These ideologies not only preached an austere brand of Islam, but they also implanted ideas that have led to intolerance, hatred and even violence. They even provided the impulses for an imperialistic thinking that a distorted version of Islam must dominate and rule the world. This thinking has underpinned the agenda of transnational terrorism.

Three historic developments brought a new era of peace in Christian Europe.

One was the Reformation that happened within Christianity. Another was the disengagement of religion from the affairs of the state. The third was the replacement of religion with ideology - that is, secularism - as the new basis of social order and public morality. These last two developments paved the way for the birth of secular politics and the secular state

There have been calls for Islam to undergo such a reformation as perceptions exist that the conflicts and violence caused by Muslims today are legitimised by problematic theological ideas in Islam. However, Muslim scholars have countered that such assertions are untrue and rejected these calls for an Islamic Reformation.

Using Islam as the basis of the state is an innovation of the modern era. It did not happen in the early period of Islamic history. The mixing of politics with Islam has unfortunately brought a lot of grief to Muslims. Given the conditions of the Muslim world today, it is not a bad idea to have Islam-state and Islam-politics separations.

More including discussion on the Failure of Islamic State Model. http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/separating-islam-and-state-may-be-a-way-forward

721   curious2   894/894 = 100% civil   Jun 17, 7:37pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

BayAreaObserver says

Using Islam as the basis of the state is an innovation of the modern era.

That seems contrary to the actual history going back to Mohamed. In fact, the same article says:

"Muslims will be quick to point out that Islam is a complete way of life, and hence the religion cannot be separated from electoral politics or affairs in governing the state... It is undeniable that the Prophet of Islam and his Companions were involved in politics, but this was to resolve many issues of tribal dynamics where power and influence were involved. They never engaged in politics of contestation to amass power or influence."

The charlatan Mohamed and his followers used force to make everyone submit. Islam is a word that means literally submission. Of course they didn't engage in political contests, there wasn't a democracy. They forced submission.

"History shows this was the Prophet's consistent approach to politics. He was always occupied with ensuring that Islam provided the ethics upon which all facets of life are anchored, including politics.
***
Very few Islamic states, perhaps none, can be counted as models of success in the world today."

That illustrates one of the obvious problems with Islam itself. Trying to run the complete system of Islam in the modern world is like trying to drive an ox cart down an airport runway. It doesn't make sense, and it risks disaster.

722   BayAreaObserver   666/666 = 100% civil   9:16am today  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Liberal mosque in Berlin draws criticism. Men and women pray side-by-side, and there's a female imam who doesn't even wear a headscarf. For many in the Islamic world, these things are inconceivable.

Sunnis, Shiites, Alevis, members of the LGTBQ community - all are welcome at the Friday prayer service at the Ibn Rushd-Goethe Mosque in Berlin. The organization, which holds its services inside the St. Johannis Church in the area of Moabit, has sparked criticism since a DW report on its founder, women's rights activist Seyran Ates, who established the institution despite fierce resistance.

Reports about the liberal mosque found their way into several newspapers in the Muslim world. The pro-government Turkish newspaper Sabah called it "absurd" that services took place inside a church. Another newspaper, Yeniakit, labeled Ates a Kurdish supporter of the controversial cleric Fethullah Gulen. And Daily Pakistan criticized the fact that women took part in prayer services unveiled.

Men and uncovered women praying together, and presided over by a female imam on top of it? For some in the Muslim world, that's simply going too far. "They're creating a new religion, that's not Islamic," commented one DW user. "These people are not following the religion of our prophet. They have no conception of the religion. What idiocy," commented another.

DW Arabic's report garnered more than 1.7 million clicks by Monday afternoon.

"Our article drew quite an impassioned response," said Tarek Anegay, who works in DW Arabic's social media department.

Many users were outraged by what they saw as a contradiction of Islamic doctrine.

A key debate raging within the Muslim community concerns the lack of equality between men and women, along with the appropriateness of women not covering their heads during prayer. The concept of a female imam remains a special taboo, Anegay said. Many Muslims look at such attempts to liberalize their religion and see a conspiracy concocted by the West against Islam.

"The high number of Muslims frightens Europe, and for that reason the Europeans are attempting to market a new form of Islam that conforms to life in Europe," wrote Manhal al-Ahmad on DW's Arabic Facebook page. "I believe that they won't achieve their goal. In the end they will give up and eventually come to understand that this fight against this religion was wrong."

The impression still exists in Muslim countries that the West wants to impose its lifestyle on the Muslim world, according to Rainer Sollich, head of DW Arabic's online department. "Those who oppose all reformist ideas within Islam are also taking advantage of this agenda," he said. "It's a very populist agenda. It works, because many people in the Muslim world are jumping on it and many genuinely feel that way."

Much More: http://www.dw.com/en/liberal-mosque-in-berlin-draws-criticism/a-39353066

Ironic that some of this sounds awfully familiar to another religion

723   Strategist   1698/1703 = 99% civil   10:09am today  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

BayAreaObserver says

Liberal mosque in Berlin draws criticism. Men and women pray side-by-side, and there's a female imam who doesn't even wear a headscarf. For many in the Islamic world, these things are inconceivable.

Sunnis, Shiites, Alevis, members of the LGTBQ community - all are welcome at the Friday prayer service at the Ibn Rushd-Goethe Mosque in Berlin. The organization, which holds its services inside the St. Johannis Church in the area of Moabit, has sparked criticism since a DW report on its founder, women's rights activist Seyran Ates, who established the institution despite fierce resistance.

Love it. It's the only mosque that should not be shut down.

BayAreaObserver says

Reports about the liberal mosque found their way into several newspapers in the Muslim world. The pro-government Turkish newspaper Sabah called it "absurd" that services took place inside a church. Another newspaper, Yeniakit, labeled Ates a Kurdish supporter of the controversial cleric Fethullah Gulen. And Daily Pakistan criticized the fact that women took part in prayer services unveiled.

Men and uncovered women praying together, and presided over by a female imam on top of it? For some in the Muslim world, that's simply going too far. "They're creating a new religion, that's not Islamic," commented one DW user. "These people are not following the religion of our prophet. They have no conception of the religion. What idiocy," commented another.

I see a fatwa coming.

724   Patrick   2065/2065 = 100% civil   10:42am today  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I admire their courage, since they know how Muslims usually are.

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