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Trapped in some organization's computer program


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2023 Feb 1, 10:42am   882 views  22 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

When you try to call an organization to get a human to deal with a problem, whether medical, the power company, or the government, etc, what you end up in is a flow chart designed to shunt you one way or another based not at all on what you need, but on what they have decided to do with you.

And that comes down to programs they have written, usually quite badly, which barely function.

But you can't just walk away, because they have some strong power over you, making you dependent on them. You may need medical help, or to get your heat turned back on, or to get your driver's license renewed. Dependency is the root of all this evil.

Not saying I know what to do about it, only that I see that we are prisoners of these algorithms. Maybe the Amish have the right idea:

- do not carry insurance, avoid doctors, and rely on your community for help paying those bills (which are less for the Amish, since they pay cash)
- do not have any connection to the electrical grid
- minimize all interaction with the government


Comments 1 - 22 of 22        Search these comments

1   Ceffer   2023 Feb 1, 11:49am  

I hate it when I make a cell phone call for consumer assistance and wind up in some pervert's basement in an Iron Maiden.
2   HeadSet   2023 Feb 1, 11:57am  

Ceffer says

I hate it when I make a cell phone call for consumer assistance and wind up in some pervert's basement in an Iron Maiden.

You need to stop misdialing Hunter Biden.
3   stereotomy   2023 Feb 1, 12:28pm  

Back in the day, anytime I called and got a chindian accent, I immediately requested a native English speaker in the United States. If they couldn't do it, I hung up. Eventually, I was shadow-flagged and they connected me with Americans on my calls.

I don't know if this still holds true, but it's worth a shot for shit that isn't immediate and critical.
4   AmericanKulak   2023 Feb 1, 5:44pm  

Patrick says


- do not have any connection to the electrical grid

If you've ever wondered why they want to do away with combustion engine cars and gas stoves...

You can smuggle propane and gas, but you can't easily smuggle AC power
5   RWSGFY   2023 Feb 1, 7:46pm  

AmericanKulak says

Patrick says



- do not have any connection to the electrical grid

If you've ever wondered why they want to do away with combustion engine cars and gas stoves...

You can smuggle propane and gas, but you can't easily smuggle AC power


That's were wind and solar would work. And hydro if you have a creek nearby.
6   HeadSet   2023 Feb 2, 4:15pm  

RWSGFY says

That's were wind and solar would work. And hydro if you have a creek nearby.

If you are going to go that route, just dig a hole and go geothermal.
7   Patrick   2023 Feb 2, 5:09pm  

HeadSet says

dig a hole and go geothermal


I like this idea. Not only is it local, without dependency on some utility or government agency, it's probably quite hard for any government agency to even know that you have a geothermal setup. The less the government knows about you, the better.
8   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2023 Feb 3, 10:49am  

Patrick says

HeadSet says


dig a hole and go geothermal


I like this idea. Not only is it local, without dependency on some utility or government agency, it's probably quite hard for any government agency to even know that you have a geothermal setup. The less the government knows about you, the better.


not very easy to setup. i read about it, got to dig very deep and its not something that works everywhere. im no expert, just what i read.
9   richwicks   2023 Feb 3, 10:55am  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

Patrick says


HeadSet says



dig a hole and go geothermal


I like this idea. Not only is it local, without dependency on some utility or government agency, it's probably quite hard for any government agency to even know that you have a geothermal setup. The less the government knows about you, the better.



not very easy to setup. i read about it, got to dig very deep and its not something that works everywhere. im no expert, just what i read.


Yeah, you have to dig literally miles in some instances to get enough heat to produce power, and that costs not millions, but billions. You can use it for geothermal HEATING, but not power, still it's expensive.
10   Patrick   2023 Feb 3, 11:46am  

I've read about very small installations which don't generate power, but use the fact that the ground stays about 55 degrees when you're below a certain depth, not all that far down. You can use that to help cool a house in the summer, and also to help heat a house in the winter.
11   HeadSet   2023 Feb 3, 11:59am  

Patrick says

I've read about very small installations which don't generate power, but use the fact that the ground stays about 55 degrees when you're below a certain depth, not all that far down. You can use that to help cool a house in the summer, and also to help heat a house in the winter.


I have toured small "geothermal" installs in private homes during the annual Solar Tours. Geothermal is surprisingly not that expensive.


12   HeadSet   2023 Feb 3, 12:05pm  

richwicks says

Yeah, you have to dig literally miles in some instances to get enough heat to produce power, and that costs not millions, but billions.

Two very different concepts are referred to as "geothermal." The one you are talking about is a large project designed as an actual central power station that draws a significant amount of heat energy by using deep wells that go far enough down to get volcanic temperatures. When talking about a residence "geothermal" it refers to a heat pump like device that uses for the exchanger water circulated through pipes in the ground (or pond) rather the open air.
13   stereotomy   2023 Feb 3, 12:21pm  

Patrick says

HeadSet says


dig a hole and go geothermal


I like this idea. Not only is it local, without dependency on some utility or government agency, it's probably quite hard for any government agency to even know that you have a geothermal setup. The less the government knows about you, the better.

Patrick says

HeadSet says


dig a hole and go geothermal


I like this idea. Not only is it local, without dependency on some utility or government agency, it's probably quite hard for any government agency to even know that you have a geothermal setup. The less the government knows about you, the better.

The only problem with that is if you don't own mineral rights to your property. Absent mineral rights, you can't drill without permission of the rights holder; even if permission is given, you may have to compensate the mineral rights holder for anything you take out of the ground.
14   Tenpoundbass   2023 Feb 3, 1:27pm  

Patrick says

And that comes down to programs they have written, usually quite badly, which barely function.


Here's the whole problem in a nutshell. In the organization, there is someone quite capable of conceptualizing the base, the crux and flow of a business process.
But in the age of no organization is greater than their lowest common denominator, mostly due to their silly mission statement written by a Liberal Arts major, that empowers everyone as an equal intellectual resource.

So rather than crafting job descriptions that are tailored and designed solely for that individual to own that process. There's another Liberal Arts major, that is in the management ;position that owns those process. Even though they have no hands on experience, and when real operations questions are asked they have to defer to the actual person who has the actual task of doing the job of that position.
Let's say Bob is the guy that really knows his shit about the day to day operations of shipping in the warehouse, but Sally is his Manager of that department, she manages his shipping process, the process of the inventory folks, the process of cutters, and pullers, and most all else when it comes to fulfilment from the back of the business.

So when a company used to call me to create them software for their operation. I used to meet the guy who has the brainchild for the software to fulfil their business needs. In the past it most always was the Owner, or CEO of the Company or it was his Second in command, that he brought on to design the process, because the other person understood his business model extensively. I would meet with that person and get the scope of everything he was trying to do. Once I established the basic flow of what he wanted. I would want to go meet with Bob and all of the other Bob's that owned those positions. They were proud and glad to be a part of the process, it would make their job easier, and it made them feel good that part of the way they got things done in that position was making it in the SOP(if it was efficient and suited most often it was).

I could write some very complex business systems in just three quick months, with these key people. The only people in those meetings were the guy that brought me on, and possibly their IT folks, so they could build and own the Infrastructure and hardware. If something in the process didn't fit, I could tell something was missing, I could just materialize before Bob like Lieutenant Columbo, and ask him just one more thing.

Now the person who owns the company isn't sure what they need, they leave it up to their management. Who the HR has pushed in a corner to empower everyone to participate.
So you end up in a meeting with all of the Upper and mid level management, all of the Sally's but no Bobs. You're not allowed to bother Bob, or Sally takes it really personal. Although everything you ask Sally she has it wrong or she is trying to force you to write a process that puts a square peg in a round hole. These situations make a 3 month project take more than a year. And in most cases even as much as three years, and it still isn't right. Which is the case of the job I just left, and they hired a huge International consulting firm to rewrite my five apps, and put their Syspro pig of a system on Sales Force. I could have hand rolled them their own ERP and CRM for the rest of the business in three months, without the cloud and hefty fees.

So by time these knuckleheads are done beating their heads in the wall. They will end up with a simplified flow chart, and low information High level SOP.
15   Patrick   2023 Feb 3, 1:50pm  

stereotomy says

The only problem with that is if you don't own mineral rights to your property.


I thought the normal situation is that you do own the mineral rights, and that's it's only in areas with significant resources like oil that the land title is broken up into surface and mineral rights.
16   NuttBoxer   2023 Feb 3, 2:43pm  

Man, reading through all these responses and the OP I feel like I reading my own comments. My distrust of government and centralization is really catching on. But I only started in '08, many have gone before me.

Something that can work on the calls is pressing zero for operator. Sometimes that can still be used to short-circuit bots.

I have to pay my utility bills online now. The vendors no longer allow me on their site to make payment due to my privacy settings. It's automated, and a bit tedious, but worth the effort.
17   HeadSet   2023 Feb 3, 4:32pm  

stereotomy says

The only problem with that is if you don't own mineral rights to your property.

Now that would be a real dilemma for a Greenie type who has his mineral rights - while digging for geothermal the Greenie strikes oil.
18   Patrick   2023 Mar 1, 7:28pm  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11803631/Ford-patents-self-driving-car-repossesses-owner-fails-payments.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus


Ford patents self-driving car that repossesses itself if the owner fails to keep up with payments – and drives itself back to the showroom or scrapyard

Ford is not taking any chances with owners missing car payments - the company is working on a system that prompts the vehicle to repossess itself.

A newly awarded patent describes a car self-driving back to the showroom or a scrapyard if the owner does not answer messages about their delinquent account.

The American carmaker would start the process by disabling 'comfort features,' playing noises inside the car and limiting where the vehicle can drive.

If all else fails, Ford will activate the self-driving feature and the owner has no choice but to give up the car.

While patent applications do not always turn into real-world services, Ford describes using a 'repossession computer' that could be installed to let it take control of functions.
19   mell   2023 Mar 1, 8:02pm  

Patrick says


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11803631/Ford-patents-self-driving-car-repossesses-owner-fails-payments.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus


Ford patents self-driving car that repossesses itself if the owner fails to keep up with payments – and drives itself back to the showroom or scrapyard

Ford is not taking any chances with owners missing car payments - the company is working on a system that prompts the vehicle to repossess itself.

A newly awarded patent describes a car self-driving back to the showroom or a scrapyard if the owner does not answer messages about their delinquent account.

The American carmaker would start the process by disabling 'comfort features,' playing noises inside the car and limiting...

You know for how much hacked/jailbroken/rooted cars will go on the black market. There is a whole new economy and Cyberpunk may finally become reality.
20   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 2, 12:33am  

Patrick says

Ford patents self-driving car that repossesses itself if the owner fails to keep up with payments – and drives itself back to the showroom or scrapyard

Ford is not taking any chances with owners missing car payments - the company is working on a system that prompts the vehicle to repossess itself.

Just in time for the coming car sale collapse! Poor Mexico and China.
21   HeadSet   2023 Mar 2, 6:24pm  

Patrick says

Ford patents self-driving car that repossesses itself if the owner fails to keep up with payments – and drives itself back to the showroom or scrapyard

I think that "repossession" software is a smokescreen. The real purpose is to sell a product to the government that can limit citizen's driving for green and social credit reasons. Also, Ford knows that the future of self-drive will not be to retail drivers, but to transport company fleets to use as irregular routing vehicles.
22   PeopleUnited   2023 Mar 2, 6:48pm  

Patrick says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11803631/Ford-patents-self-driving-car-repossesses-owner-fails-payments.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus



Ford patents self-driving car that repossesses itself if the owner fails to keep up with payments – and drives itself back to the showroom or scrapyard

Ford is not taking any chances with owners missing car payments - the company is working on a system that prompts the vehicle to repossess itself.

A newly awarded patent describes a car self-driving back to the showroom or a scrapyard if the owner does not answer messages about their delinquent account.

The American carmaker would start the process by disabling 'comfort features,' playing noises inside the car and limiting...

Brings to mind RepoMen. A movie about guys whose job is to repossess artificial organs from living patents.

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