patrick.net

I have a cousin who works for Government Sachs. And there's no question that house was purchased with party/entertainment of rich clients in mind.

Who buys a house to “entertain”?

Another way to say, buy as much house as possible.

Are you kidding me with this thread? Nobody here invites people over? I am going to assume the people posting in this thread don't have kids or any friends/family.

That whole post by Seaside made me really sad for the future of humanity. If the only use you could see for an extra room in the house is for watching porn "to get rid of the clumsy husband/baby". WTF is that about? Yuck! I am going to assume you still live in your parents basement.

FYI...Porn is best watched in the bedroom where it can be enjoyed by the man and the woman! DUH! You should try it some time...maybe you will get lucky.

Darn, I knew someone will get serious. :)

Let me explain. What I wrote above is what I heard from a radio. It was about watching superball game, and those are what the female host was saying. She didn't mention porn, she mentioned movie, beer and baby thing. I was like hmm... wth is this? I thought that's funny though, writing what I heard with twist of word was silly. Sorry about it and thanks for assuming and information, I assume you assume little too much.

To begin with, the kind of entertainment mdovell was talking about wasn't too clear. Talking about friends invite over and BBQ party, I don't see it happening often in these days. The way of entertainment is changing ever sice the invention of HDTV, Xbox and internet. I still see some people going over friends house with six pack to watch superball, but what I am seeing more and more is kids doing pot party. It's sad and rather annoying. So do people need a space for entertainment? Maybe, but not as much as before.

It's not about entertaining, it's about having the ability to entertain for many.

Yes, many people congregate in the kitchen, or around the tv, or out back, but people still want to at least OFFER the space. It's like needing an SUV because you need the space. If you took the time, you could probably fit everything into a mini, 99% of the time. Most people want it because others have it, and because it's a social norm.

It's more about having the room, than using it. I know many people who feel the need to have that room, even though it's hardly ever used.

It's like having a guest room that is used twice a year for friends or family. It would be cheaper to pay for a hotel for them, than paying for that extra room, but people don't want to tell people that! Even if it makes no sense to have that room.

Thanks Pkennedy, that's what I'd like to say.

A family I know of live in 3500sf two story home. It's very nice and there's very impressive formal dinning room. Sparkling clean, lovely furnitures. I always wonder how many times a year they use it. I asked my wife and she said, No. they don't use it. It probabaly is $30K show case, and I want something like that. I guess using it or not is not the problem. Having it or not is.

Why would it surprise someone that some people (who might be able to afford do so) purchase houses with 'entertaining' in mind? Some people like to open their homes to family and friends and they may choose to purchase houses with enough guest rooms to adequately house them for overnight stays. A house with several guest rooms would have to have a breakfast room, dining room, living room, media/family room large enough to adequately seat all the quests and the owners at the same time.

Big houses with 10 people are better than 5 houses with 2 people or 10 houses with one person.

I like my big baby man room.

It's called a Man Cave.

The problem with society today is everyone lives so far away from each other that get-togethers are much more rare. You can have a house to entertain, but I dout you will have more than 2 gatherings a year.

Well speak for your self. Or maybe it's in this economic times people aren't as apt to throw constant week end bashes where they host many friends and family.
But certainly not everyone lives away from the people they entertain.

I totally agree with SF AceSF ace says

personally, I do not understand what this big fuss is all about. everything being absent, who doesn’t want to have a house accessible for family gathering and friend gathering? An entertainment room just makes it very comfortable (weather and location being factor as well).
Isn’t the goal of life is to enjoy time with families and friends as much as possible.
A family room by itself doesn’t add that much to housing cost (unless it is in prime SF) anyway.

I love this topic because it is EXACTLY what I am dealing with right now. MY rental has a HORRIBLE layout for entertaining moms groups and their toddlers so I am having a really hard time meeting people. The only value my house offers is giving my husband a 3 mile commute, and since he is never here, just me and my baby, I want to host playgroups at my house to make friends. The problem is the living space sucks. So I am looking for another rental, and the only things I am finding which meet my needs are in the upper range like 4-5K per month...which would be an additonal 10-20k in rent. So then its like...we should just buy a place and so the cycle goes. Now even lame houses are trying to list in the 4-5k range and people are dumb enough to pay it. GRR.

We had to relocate to the bay area for hubs career away from family and friends, which is turning out to be MUCH harder then I imagined it would be....especially since my daughter was born almost 2 years ago up here. I probably wouldn't have agreed to the move had I known what the emotional impact would be once my baby was born. My older brother also relocated to another state, but my family is really close and we always celebrate holidays together.

My goal is to find a house that has 2 guest bedrooms or seperate guest house in a good location on property, and a large enough living space to host a family and friend gathering of at least 40-50 people. I also need entertaining space because people here already have their friends so the only way I am going to meet people is if I make the effort to invite people over for gatherings, bbqs, dinner parties, playdates etc. I also grew up in a very social family, and my parents always had parties and friends over so that is what I am used to.

The problem is if my husband opens another office in the south bay, it is going to cost an outrageous amount of money to buy a home with the amenities and yard I am looking for. I can get in a very exclusive area in the east bay neighborhood of Alamo, a home on 1/2 acre w/ a remodeled 3000sqft house a pool and play area for 1.3M. In Palo Alto, you can only get a home UNDER 2000sqft for that price and NO yard let alone pool w/ privacy from neighbors.

I do like the Palo Alto area because it seems a bit classier than the east bay areas of Lamorinda and Alamo, but the homes at least under 2M are HORRIBLE for entertaining. Do people in PA, MV, MP, LA, Burlingame just entertain in the same way, holidays, birthday parties, celebrations, but cram a bunch of people into really tight spaces on tiny lots? I rarely see homes in these areas with 3000 sqft. and decent open kitchens and great rooms. Where do all these people living in homes designed pretty much a small family of 3 or 4, and only extra room for the occasional visit from grandma for dinner. i cannot see how people entertain comfortably in houses like this especially for the cost:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Menlo-Park/2181-Camino-A-Los-Cerros-94025/home/2047811

http://www.redfin.com/search#lat=37.45333001829121&long=-122.19955444335938&market=sanfrancisco&max_price=1500000&num_baths=2&num_beds=3&sf=1%2C2&uipt=1&v=5&zoomLevel=12

If everyone were to show up to my daughters birthday in my immediate family including a couple sets of aunts/uncles/cousins, already I would need room for around 30,..not to sleep, just to fit comfortably with seating, room to move around, a yard and pool for swimming. Plus a lot of the people in my family are over 6 ft tall including a couple of the women. Plus there are 9 grandkids/cousins under age 8 running around. This is how I grew up my whole life. Having family over for celebrations and holidays going swimming, and eating a lot while sitting at long tables. I don't know where you would do this and be in a good school district other than the east bay for comparable prices.

Here are homes Alamo that has it all for every generations comfort and fun for the same price:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Alamo/1591-Cervato-Cir-94507/home/1905084

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Alamo/Undisclosed-address-94507/home/1154204

How much would you need to spend to find something similar in top rated k-12 schools?

SFace pretty much summed it up. You're like a farmer complaining he can't find a good 20 acre plot in Palo Alto! And then claiming the insanity of it all! Where would you keep all your livestock without a 20 acre plot?

You're in an expensive city, that was mostly built out a long time ago. The homes were built for the styles for those days.

You don't have a lot of individual space in these homes, and you need to work with what you have. Until you realize that, you're not going to be happy. If you need more room entertainment room, look to outside sources to provide that, parks, theatres, recreational rooms, what not. Facilities you could meet people at. Holding a guest room for someone and $4000 extra per year (unless you've got people coming for months at a time) isn't worth it. Find a couple good hotels and have people stay there, even if you pay for them. You're living in an expensive urban area, bringing in farmers and trying to accommodate them isn't going to work. You have to explain to people that you have limited space, when visiting things will be cramped.

I've watched people spin around like you complaining about everything bad the bay has to offer and being miserable the entire time they've lived here. Due to very similar issues in fact!

You aren't the only person with these issues. If you're making good enough money to afford 1 income, living in an a decently expensive area/rental, then you're already doing pretty well. If you can't afford the ferrari, it's because very few people can. If you're only method of making friends is to own a ferrari, and you can't afford one, look for other alternatives.

It also sounds the samsmom only wants to be "friends" with the "right" people. Earth to samsmom...those aren't friends, they are people that you PAY to hang out with.

"Friends" would be happy to sit on a folding chair out in your garage...

samsmom says

How much would you need to spend to find something similar in top rated k-12 schools?

You certainly do not over spend far in excess compared to private schools which are far better.
A good private school will cost you $50K for 4 years, yet many feel they need to overpay 2-3x prebubble prices (an extra $500K-1M) for their kids education.

Tenouncetrout says

It’s called a Man Cave.

AKA Garage!
A least thats were I keep my Caveman friends, Mr. Makita, and Mr Black & Mrs Decker.
UGH UGH UGH...

pkennedy says

If you can’t afford the ferrari, it’s because very few people can. If you’re only method of making friends is to own a ferrari, and you can’t afford one, look for other alternatives.

I would say, the Bay Area is poor in buying Ferrari's... Los Gatos Ferrari, Jim Loose Exotic Cars And and Ultimate both in Palo Alto, Ferrari of San Francisco all went bust over the decades. Not a great market over the long run.

pkennedy says

I’ve watched people spin around like you complaining about everything bad the bay has to offer and being miserable the entire time they’ve lived here. Due to very similar issues in fact!

Same people live thier life as hermits in large homes collecting stuff, never get out and do things. They never really enjoy what the BA has to offer. Never surfed, scuba, walked around the SF city from one end to another, seen great public entertainment events, gone to night clubs, drove or biked on the coast Hwy1, etc etc etc.

@thomas

Your collection of people doesn't necessarily coincide with the unhappy relocators. It could be their personalities not to do those things. However, if they're happy with their current homes they're happy.

I meant people who were just unhappy with their surroundings, comparing them with where they came from, and not accounting for what they were gaining and/or changing. If you're a farmer, trying to farm in the city, you're going to be pretty unhappy, until you look around you and realize where you're living.

We have a real interesting market here of people as well.
Those who make ungodly amounts of money, who can buy anywhere
Those who have lived here for long enough that their homes are now in the middle of ungodly priced homes
Those who bought WAY over their heads, and now live a life they can't afford

I get the impression samsmom comes in here, looks at someone in a nicer home than heres, with an income that is far less than hers and figures she should be higher than them. When in reality they might be in that house for the 2nd and 3rd reasons I mentioned.

pkennedy says

I get the impression samsmom comes in here, looks at someone in a nicer home than heres, with an income that is far less than hers and figures she should be higher than them. When in reality they might be in that house for the 2nd and 3rd reasons I mentioned.

Sounds about right. With 3rd reason being the majority, and thus samsmom will make the same mistake, keeping up with the Jones.

Wife-swapping: The practice seems like such a relic of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s: the decades that introduced Playboy and Cosmopolitan magazines, go-go boots, birth control pills, 1972's bestselling The Joy of Sex, and the then racy 1969 wife-swapping film Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice (pictured above) into the social landscape. Wife-swiping, according to literary and film chronicles of the time, took place amongst educated, liberal middle-and upper-middle-class suburbanites. Maybe the participants in these alleged practices felt the weight and regret of mid-life fast approaching--life slipping them by--and they wanted to enjoy a last grasp of youth by adopting the mores and practices of the youth- and counter-culture-driven Sexual Revolution.

Guess you need lots of space for that.

SF ace says

The premium in school district like Fremont Mission and Cupertino is more like 200K - 300K, not 500K-1M.

My 500K-1M is for Palo Alto. Frankly even in Cupertino, prices dont justify education value.
I should know, i went to Fremont High School. Grammer schools have little value. HS is where
it makes a difference. This has been true for decades.

I knew many who went to Cupertino, Homestead, Palo Alto HS and private schools. I knew parents who lived in average homes on average incomes in Fremont, Morgan Hill, Sunnyvale send their kids to Bellarmine and St Francis, which turned out far better move compared to public schools. Today its a no brainer!

Where was this educational premium before the bubble? There wasnt one!

SF ace says

If you talk to enough Indian engineering friend, you will learn that they had to be the best of the best to even make it to the the top university in Delhi, so there was no chance to relax and medicore grades means drop out.

Why would I want to talk to Indian or Chinese engineers ? If you really look back at in our local industries for decades, it was driven not by some top universities from Delhi or Bejing. Frankly the many who have driven our SV success story decades ago came locally from San Jose State, Fresno, Chico, and Santa Clara U (not the top 10) and were your medicore students. Someone with 10-15 years of local experience is worth a lot more over any top 10 top foreign university anyday.

Frankly is difficult to actually get a background check of education from Indian/Chinese Universities or former foreign employers. That is why many who come here have to get a US degree to begin with.
They start from scratch and start their career at the bottom.

In my functional area Accounting, a degreed foreign accountant who learned Indian or Chinese GAAP is worthless, because they never learned US GAAP/SEC requirements. So why should I hire one?

SF ace says

Whether private school is in fact better is really subjective.

Its not difficult to find costs and graduation percentages of private schools. Its publicly disclosed
and well know for decades by locals. You sum the cost of homes (outside of Cupertino or PA) plus disclosed private school costs and compare to living in 'fortress areas'. Lets say, compare living in South San Jose, Blossom Valley + Private school costs and home values in Cupertino. See what you get. Too many people are pinned on Palo Alto and Cupertino. You know, there is a life outside of Cup and PA.

SF ace says

The fact that there was no premium is irrelvant. I can safely say at least 75% of buyers in Cupertino and Fremont Mission do so because that is in lieu of private school. For two kids, that is about 2K a month. That premium is real and legitamite to a lot of family with kids.

At the end, its all hype. Bubble chasers using their children as their excuse to overpay.