patrick.net

Not that political arguments actually make any difference in a system where we only have a facade of representative democracy:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/eAdsdlq42nE

And most of the most politically argumentative people I have seen online have no real idea what they're talking about having apparently acquired their knowledge on the topics they argue from 24 hour news channel coverage where even most of the shows that pretend to specialize in political topics take the idiotic left vs. right position. As a result, one always gets only half of the story and superficial coverage to boot.

Cloud says

The term "muppet" in England means "idiot."

This is a key piece of information not found in any of the American articles about Greg Smith's resignation.

An argument founded on facts which proceeds to a logical conclusion is a good read. If it survives the onslaught of subsequent comments from the critical thinking crowd, then you have a decent claim of acquired knowledge.

I WANT to be wrong - I ssek to promote the "incorrect" point of view in any given argument... It's just fun...

Besides, argument & protest solve nothing since violence solves everything.... in the end...

...and now I am "liking" my own comments, so take that!!! BTW, I thought we couldn't do that anymore...

The thing is that we all actually want the same thing for everybody. Jobs, healthy economy, prosperity, good schools, good affordable health care, retirement, better future for our children, etc.

The political views are not about what we want, but about about HOW we achieve those things.

Political arguments tend to be accusations that the other party actually does not want those things for everybody (wrong). In political arguments, we seem to confuse our common goals with our varying methods.

The above is from http://xkcd.com/about/. Since this image is appearing in the main page today, I am sure (because the source site specifically states so) that the artist would have appreciated an attribution.

Yes, that's a good point. How should I do that attribution? Maybe a link under the photo on the home page?

The purpose of a debate is not to persuade your opponent, but the audience. And the Internet's audience is all of mankind including those not even born yet. Like it or not, these debates will be archived for thousands of years. So make sure your point is clear and sensible.

Dan8267 says

So make sure your point is clear and sensible.

Yeah, like mines... You win...

Vicente says

Everyone enjoys a bit of argument, it's not pointless. If it gives you pleasure and exercises some muscles, then feel no shame about it!

Hmmm.... the same applies to some other social interactions....

Actually I do learn from some of these exchanges.

Some PatNet Users are smart but come from a different perspective with a different bias. It is interesting to see how people's memories drift over time, in ways that tend to confirm their bias. I recently had an exchange with someone where each of our memories had drifted in opposite directions, mine by 5% and his by more than 50% over a longer time. It may explain part of why people can drift apart, memory can be self-serving.

Also I like testing ideas in an anonymous way, where other anonymous users are uninhibited in their critique. Conversations with family or friends tend to be more polite, because people don't want to offend or damage relationships. Online debates are what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real.

On the other hand, without the smiles and laughs of in-person conversation, typing back and forth can easily get overheated. Some people are good with emoticons :)

Other people just want to vent, which is OK.

Still others want to bully and call other people names where they can do that without getting punched. Others run away while displaying bizarre combinations of behavior (one made obviously false accusations against me and Ignored me while using a separate browser to follow me). Those people aren't much fun, but their personality disorders illustrate part of human nature and so it is possible to learn about people by observing their behavior.

I feel like I learn a lot from PatNet, and it's free.

I just want to convince all the stupid republicans to shut up and go away so the smart democrats can make the world a better place

Squatting in East CoCo says

Please buy Patricks book to support the cause.

Done, and am enjoying reading it!

Thank you!

If you have time, I'd be honored by a review on Amazon.

edvard2 says

What do you hope to accomplish arguing politics?

The hope is that your views are intellectually challenged. This is constructive in that it helps you gain perspective, which either girds or undermines your philosophy. One thing is for sure -- to stick to the intellectual ghettoes and amen corners of like-minded fiends might be pleasant, but it's no good enough -- not for a serious thinker. You gotta take it out on the track and and then come back and tear everything down and rebuild it again, trying to suss out the weak parts of your blueprint/

No one should waste their time arguing with me.
I know everything. LOL

JodyChunder says

You gotta take it out on the track and and then come back and tear everything down and rebuild it again, trying to suss out the weak parts of your blueprint/

John Bailo says

‘Daily discussion of the matters about which you hear me conversing is the highest good for man. Life that is not tested by such discussion is not worth living.’"

Agreed.

Also, these days politics is SO partisan that it's difficult except with certain friends to argue about it.

I've observed that republicans tend to not follow much of it. For example they didn't see Clinton's speech at the democratic convention and they don't want to.

Liberals are more likely to be willing to try on for size the republican view point than the other way around. It's true that you aren't going to change many republican's mind on here. But what about independent's ?

If a relatively politically independent type voter were to read these arguments, and wasn't starting off wanting to believe one side or the other, I have to believe they would easily choose Obama over Romney.

But it's true they wouldn't have to come here to figure that out.

I just needed to confirm that idiots do exist.

Nothing. I don't like either party. One is nuts and the other is an ostrich with its head in the sand.

So at different times I end up supporting different parties for different reasons!

I'm just going to go home and kiss my pet lion. :-)

If you thought the height of stupidity was the left/right paradigm and repubs bickering with demtards, then I guess you never saw these jackasses that claim to be independents. They make this claim, because they are not married to either party, they merely pick the shittiest of ideas that flow from that two sided coin, and allow them to become law! Thanks a whole friggin lot, friends!

Its impossible to think outside the box, when you willfully trap yourself in the box

Nothing urks me more then to hear the attitudes of the holier then thou "my political bent is better then yours" americans. People actually think they are free, and they rationalize it by wether or not an action falls within the law. You gotta be friggin kidding me. Some clown posted a thread topic that the repub right in this country is responsible for the descent into fascism, and cited their use of the term 'liberal' as a derogatory term. Gtfo with that crap. The people that put higher priority on the laws of the land, over their own personal internal devices to decide what is (morally) right or wrong, are the fascists. "Hey, I might not agree with it, but its not illegal" or hey, I know such and such isn't wrong, but it is illegal. Fuck all to what some horseshit system of laws says to dictate my moral actions. I'm free and I prefer to keep it that way.

That there are millions of poor people rotting away in (for profit) prisons in this country withou ever having committed a crime against society, and you never ever ever hear a peep out of the disinteresting finger waggers about how hieniously cruel that shit is, is all the proof I need that its one big fucking sham.

Instead we have a bunch of people whining about same sex cocksuckers and abortion clinic floozys, who obviously don't know enough to comment on the matter, because its quite obvious you're not getting any yourself.

Nothing. No cure for idiots and deceived.