patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Right now banks charge 1.5% and 25 cents per transaction on electronic money. I suspect that eliminated this tax alone will do far more for improving the efficiencies of the economy than everything the financial industry does, even based on the assumption that what they do is good

Yep. The private tax on debit and credit card transactions is a big drag on the productive economy. Why don't the republicons complain about it? Well, because private taxes are good, public taxes are bad. Don't you see?

justme says

Dan8267 says

Right now banks charge 1.5% and 25 cents per transaction on electronic money. I suspect that eliminated this tax alone will do far more for improving the efficiencies of the economy than everything the financial industry does, even based on the assumption that what they do is good

Yep. The private tax on debit and credit card transactions is a big drag on the productive economy. Why don't the republicons complain about it? Well, because private taxes are good, public taxes are bad. Don't you see?

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

I would support making all roads toll roads.

Peter P says

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

Oh, please. VISA/MC and Discover is a duopoly with no real competition, plus all the banks like their cut of the fees, too. Who's to stop them?

Peter P says

I would support making all roads toll roads.

Par for the course. But you are much more sensible in person, that is the good news :).

justme says

Peter P says

I would support making all roads toll roads.

Par for the course. But you are much more sensible in person, that is the good news :).

justme, it is quite sensible to make all roads toll roads. If we do not stop subsidizing motorists people will not give public transit a consideration.

In some markets, public transportation can make economic sense if such market distortions are removed.

justme says

Peter P says

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

Oh, please. VISA/MC and Discover is a duopoly with no real competition, plus all the banks like their cut of the fees, too. Who's to stop them?

That is a bit sad. BTW, have you tried LevelUp?

https://www.thelevelup.com/

It is pretty cool buying lunch from a food truck with your phone.

Peter P says

justme, it is quite sensible to make all roads toll roads. If we do not stop subsidizing motorists people will not give public transit a consideration.

Don't you realize that if people start taking the bus, the toll road operators will just start charging per passenger instead of per vehicle? Why, because they can!

Your theories are cute, but only in theory. In practice they are so full of large holes that one can drive armored cars full of ill-gotten monopoly profits through them. And believe me, the monopolists WILL do exactly that.

justme says

Peter P says

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

Oh, please. VISA/MC and Discover is a duopoly with no real competition, plus all the banks like their cut of the fees, too. Who's to stop them?

Stop complaining, you're free to start your own credit card company! It's a free market right?

justme says

Your theories are cute, but only in theory. In practice they are so full of large holes that one can drive armored cars full of...

This is one thing that free market purists have very much in common with communists.

That we are cute?

justme says

But you are much more sensible in person, that is the good news :).

Yeah, this is one of the nice things about the Patrick.net coffee hour.

Peter P says

That we are cute?

In is that your theories make you cute.

But then again, the same cute theories make you horrifying if you get the power to inact them.

leo707 says

Peter P says

That we are cute?

In is that your theories make you cute.

But then again, the same cute theories make you horrifying if you get the power to inact them.

Only if you reject Utopia. ;-)

Peter P says

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

First, Fees are taxes just under a different name.

Second, there is no real competition as banking is largely a cartel.

Third, pure capitalism will never yield 0% transaction costs because

Only centralized control can reduce wasteful siphoning to 0%.

leo707 says

justme says

Peter P says

It is not a tax, it is a fee. There is also competitions.

Oh, please. VISA/MC and Discover is a duopoly with no real competition, plus all the banks like their cut of the fees, too. Who's to stop them?

Stop complaining, your free to start your own credit card company! It's a free market right?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/mL-AFSAIln0

121212 says

Fool, go divide your own party.

Peter P and I are joining mental telepathy powers to divide 121212's party. "wooooooo wooooooo woooooo"

(Opening one eye, to see if it's working)

Peter P says

Who was behind the French Revolution?

The Poor and Middle Classes, who were being taxed to death to give Nobles and the Bourgeoisie salaried positions for doing nothing. The rich also voted (yes, France had Estates, but only for the Rich and High Clergy) themselves immunity from lawsuits (oh, we're being sued too much - sound familiar?), the right to imprison anybody indefinitely without charge or trial (Cachets d'Iforget), and no taxes. Almost all taxes were paid by the peasants (who paid 4/5th of their crop in rent and taxes, often to the same person) and the middle class.

There were also a few relatively poor noblemen who seethed over not getting any positions in the Army or Bureaucracy, because they weren't rich enough to buy themselves a salaried office.

Also, which group ended up benefiting from the French Revolution permanently?

http://mises.org/daily/1504

Bankers loved that.

We need a small but flat or regressive income tax plus a flat land value tax.

Peter P says

Also, which group ended up benefiting from the French Revolution permanently?

http://mises.org/daily/1504

Bankers loved that.

I had to stop reading after "centralized, totalitarian, managerial, pseudo-democratic despotisms that now reign over the West."

I wish I was allowed to live in a different reality when I chose to.

Peter P says

But it is a mistake to apply value judgement to any kind of economic activity.

Only if you're a psychopath.

I could become very wealthy by murdering people and taking their money. I could become very wealthy by deceiving people into signing unfair contracts. I could become very wealthy by planting rumors of a major corporate acquisition and buying stock appropriately.

The idea that economics exists independent of ethics is a ridiculous fantasy ideal of libertarian fundamentalists who never have been nor ever will be in a position to actually have to make major financial decisions for anybody.