patrick.net

IDDQD says

Not a chance, taking into account the speed and difference in mass.

Evidently you didn't watch the Lada video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OUeISZMVJyo

Or read the comment about Princess Diana's crash, where one passenger survived even though nobody was wearing a seatbelt. "A reasonable chance" doesn't mean 100% certainty, but it's clearly higher than "not a chance."

Want one of these:

http://www.dartz.us/

I think the main problem with SUV's is people feel safer, so they drive more reckless. Despite the advantages of better traction to get a SUV going in the ice and snow, they suffer the same problem all cars suffer in the ice and snow, control and stopping. You don't get any more control in an SUV that any other car once you get moving.

Peter P says

Want one of these:

http://www.dartz.us/

LOL - I'd rather have a plug-in hybrid and life insurance. Nobody lives forever anyway.

curious2 says

wonder if the height of the SUV might have increased the risk of crashing. In
the video, the SUV loses directional stability while overtaking a truck, around
the point where the SUV straddles the truck's airstream wake boundary.

Actually if you look at the video, the SUV loses control right at about the 17 sec mark. Looks like it crosses into the "divider" or whatever it is and the wheels go into the slush/dirty snow/ice and it loses control, smashes into the truck and then loses control and goes to the other side where the big semi ploughs into it and blasts it into smithreens. If it did that to solid metal-I can't imagine what it did to the flesh of the humans inside! Dear Lord.

They were travelling in opposite directions-so if they were going 60mph each way-that is 120 mph crash-give or take a few miles for the spin out of the SUV. No way a car migh have survived this.

Now SUVs are rather not stable at high speeds and curves-nothing like a car with low center of gravity. But I think this was due to the SUV losing control due to the slush/snow/ice/whatever.

It does seem to be Russia though-they seem to have TV recorders in their vehicles like this collection of Russian accidents below

http://www.youtube.com/embed/cTQ5kAY9iKs

lostand confused says

Actually if you look at the video, the SUV loses control right at about the 17 sec mark.

I watched several times. I agree the SUV entered the slush at 17 seconds. There had been slush along the whole center line. The difference at 17 seconds was that the SUV began surfing the airflow wake of the truck that it was overtaking. The wind shear pushed the SUV toward the center slush, and then everything else followed.

curious2 says

The difference at 17 seconds was that the SUV was surfing the airflow wake of
the truck that it was overtaking

I have driven large vehicles, while towing 9,000+ pounds. Yes you can feel the difference when a semi overtakes you or in a 2 lane road, goes against you. You adjust to it -I have also driven heavy loads in windy conditions-real southern california santa anna winds-you adjust.

The truck that the SUV was overtaking, was not even a big one to cause that much of a windstream. It probably looks similar to a regular sized F450 or 550-it is defnitely not a semi.

So I guess a safe vehicle is a tall, heavy, unibody one with low CG and good wind profile.

What will that be? (other than a RR Phantom)

lostand confused says

I have driven large vehicles, while towing 9,000+ pounds. Yes you can feel the difference when a semi overtakes you or in a 2 lane road, goes against you. You adjust to it

The SUV has less directional stability than a heavy load especially towing 9,000#. If you don't think wind shear was an issue, then why did the SUV veer into the slush at precisely the point where it was overtaking the slower truck's wake, and at no prior time? In your experience, you felt the difference and adjusted to it; in the video, the SUV operator failed to do that.

Peter P says

tall...low CG.... What will that be?

For those factors, your crossover idea makes sense. But as TechGromit pointed out above, operator attitude is probably a bigger factor. For overall safety, check NHTSA data, and always fasten your seatbelt.

What about wheelbase? Longer is better right?

curious2 says

The SUV has less directional stability than a heavy load especially towing
9,000#.

Depends on the SUV. Something like a Jeep Liberty-absolutely . But otherwise some of the bigger SUVs are pretty sturdy -like a Suburban.

Now with a pick up truck of the same rating-you can tow with a gooseneck/fifth wheel which makes it more stable, rather then bumper pull-well that is how I felt towing both ways.

The only thing bad about an SUV I noticed was in speed and curves-above 70-75 mph and very curvy can get dangerous very fast-and this is without towing. Flat roads, that speed is fine. Now with snow/mud etc, if you have 4 wheel drive -SUVs are real nice. they have high clearance and I like them. But defnitely not as stable as a car with low centre of gravity.

Driving in snow conditions is tricky. 4 wheel drive is helpful for getting started, but can't help much on turns or stopping. A drive wheel hitting traction less surface will make the car start to fish tail. A wrong move at that point by the driver (brakes, overcorrection, etc) will send you into a spin.
Driver experience and care will make the difference in such treacherous conditions. I'd rather be driving a rear wheel drive vehicle here, as they are easier to manage when the wheels begin to slip. This sure ain't California weather tho! If we had such weather here, I doubt you could find a spare spot in the ditch; they'd all be taken.

Quigley says

This sure ain't California weather tho!

LOL! It sure isn't CA weather. After I moved to the mid-west, winter weather has been interesting to say the least! But for me the worst part is when you have to go to work and your car is covered in snow/ice and you have to scrape it off in the cold and wind -well at least the windshield and then drive again. Yuk!!! This year has been pretty mild though-except for that one big storm and a few other days of snow.

Don't try this at home:

man who survived 100+ mph flying Trans Am crash good - thanks for asking

SUV buyers pay extra imagining they are safer than passenger cars, but statistically they are less safe both for the occupants and especially everyone else.

Best car advice: Don't hit semis head-on.

Quigley says

Driving in snow conditions is tricky. 4 wheel drive is helpful for getting started, but can't help much on turns or stopping. A drive wheel hitting traction less surface will make the car start to fish tail. A wrong move at that point by the driver (brakes, overcorrection, etc) will send you into a spin.

Driver experience and care will make the difference in such treacherous conditions. I'd rather be driving a rear wheel drive vehicle here, as they are easier to manage when the wheels begin to slip. This sure ain't California weather tho! If we had such weather here, I doubt you could find a spare spot in the ditch; they'd all be taken.

Once upon a time I had an SUV with selectable on the fly 2/4/AWD. In heavy rain I could feel a subtle difference in the handling, AWD did feel more planted than 2WD. I never pushed the limits to see if AWD made a difference there.

Cars need to have thrusters so that they can maneuver in a complete lack of traction. Just like the Apollo module in space. :-)

Peter P says

Cars need to have thrusters so that they can maneuver in a complete lack of traction. Just like the Apollo module in space. :-)

Or, you could put cowcatchers on the front of tractor trailers. Maybe a scoop, like in Soylent Green. There was a lot of protein in that SUV, and in this economy, it shouldn't go to waste.

I guess if you are in Russia, don't honk at a biker!!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/3LxtO_vMokk

curious2 says

always fasten your seatbelt.

Unfortunately I don't think seat belts would have helped that guy much. There comes a certain point where even the crumble zones, salt belts and air bags on a car can save you.

This post sucks.