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Diversity harms societies, lowers mutual trust


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2016 Apr 4, 11:48am   40,762 views  152 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/


The Downside of Diversity

From multicultural festivals to pronouncements from political leaders, the message is the same: our differences make us stronger. But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as...


#diversity


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17   bob2356   2016 Apr 10, 6:56am  

FortWayne says

Diversity is good if people want to become part of American culture. If they come here just to take advantage of our society and not become a part of it, that destroys the community. Why would someone care for their neighbor if they have nothing in common and have completely different goals. One wants to improve the community, other just wants to make his money and doesn't care for anything.

That's part of the problem.

Yep, that's what they said about the irish and italians. They would never become part of american society.

18   bob2356   2016 Apr 10, 7:00am  

HydroCabron says

Tenpoundbass says

Or you become one of them. Thanks for remaking the point.

Those that don't make the team end up in the Lime pit.

I can vouch: it happened to me.

After a few years of having Spanish-speaking neighbors on both sides of me, I no longer speak English.

Oops: I got that wrong. The parents barely spoke a lick of English, but their kids fight with each other in perfect English. Guess I got it wrong - sorry.

Living in the Rio Grande valley for a number of years I constantly saw the parents talking in spanish and the children answering in english. The fairy tale that people live in america for generations without learning english is absurd, yet there are people (ft wayne for example) stupid enough to believe it.

19   marcus   2016 Apr 14, 6:20am  

HydroCabron says

For 300 years, the United States has been taking people who were shunned for religious fanaticism by the rest of the world. We have kicked ass and taken names, economically and militarily. Or was this all a lie, elaborately cooked up by diabolical P.C. false-rape accusers playing a long game to weaken the American white male, so underrepresented in high-paying professions and positions of authority?

Nice

20   marcus   2016 Apr 14, 6:37am  

FortWayne says

If they come here just to take advantage of our society and not become a part of it, that destroys the community.

This makes no sense. Most jobs aren't about improving the community, and people spend most of their time in their jobs or with family and friends. Self interest is universal, and that's a major thing we have in common with others. Time flies by. IF the people that come here are assholes, it doesn't mean their descendants will be. Maybe their kids will look around and not want to be like their parents. Hopefully they look around and see the good chance to be accepted by the community as one of us. Diversity actually makes that easier to happen. Differences are accepted by the community as no big deal.

21   FortWayne   2016 Apr 25, 6:49am  

Diversity works fine until liberals come in and start fixing it, then it all goes to shit.

22   NDrLoR   2016 Apr 27, 6:53pm  

FortWayne says

Diversity works fine until liberals come in and start fixing it, then it all goes to shit.

The LBGT restrooms fracas--making a problem where non existed. Just another splinter group as though we didn't have enough already.

23   blowmeironvagina   2016 Apr 28, 11:45pm  

without diversity, we'd have shit food in this country.

Mexican food, salsa dancing, tango dancing, thai food, and the fucking railroads were built by chinese.

That's just a start.

WIthout diversity, I'd have to eat at Applebees, and have to talk to some moronic asswipe like fortwhine or ironvagina. NO THANKS!

24   justme   2016 Apr 29, 2:15am  

blowmeironvagina says

That's just a start.

Blow Meir On Vagina, why do you have to bring up Golda Meir? Is it because Joe Biden was reported to have said privately that Hillary Clinton's war-mongering and murderous ways was because she wants to be the new Golda Meir?

Oh. Blow Me IRON Vagina. Never mind.

25   tatupu70   2016 Apr 29, 6:10am  

FortWayne says

Diversity works fine until liberals come in and start fixing it, then it all goes to shit.

I agree--as long as the blacks, Micks, Chinamen, Pollocks, etc. know their place, things run swell.

26   Y   2016 Apr 29, 7:05am  

why do you think exercise cures melatonin anxiety?

bgamall4 says

Well, you are a racist bast**d, Wayne. So, you do squat to fix it.

27   Y   2016 Apr 29, 7:07am  

This will end with all public multi-player bathrooms converted to individual portapotties.
Thanks libbies for the extra 40 billion in debt that this will cost...

P N Dr Lo R says

The LBGT restrooms fracas--making a problem where non existed.

28   FortWayne   2016 May 18, 9:57pm  

tatupu70 says

FortWayne says

Diversity works fine until liberals come in and start fixing it, then it all goes to shit.

I agree--as long as the blacks, Micks, Chinamen, Pollocks, etc. know their place, things run swell.

Oh boy another liberal race card used as an instant GOTO, what else is new.

29   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 May 18, 10:05pm  

HydroCabron says

Guess what? Just like the Irish and Italians whose descendants now live in the burbs, are considered White, could lead much less join the KKK, and vote Republican, so too will the Hispanics in 20 years.

30   bob2356   2016 May 19, 5:04am  

tatupu70 says

I agree--as long as the blacks, Micks, Chinamen, Pollocks, etc. know their place, things run swell.

You forgot the krauts, wops, and catholics.

31   Y   2016 May 19, 6:08am  

Don't forget the Honkees...old fuckers that they are...

bob2356 says

tatupu70 says

I agree--as long as the blacks, Micks, Chinamen, Pollocks, etc. know their place, things run swell.

You forgot the krauts, wops, and catholics.

32   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2016 Aug 9, 8:10am  

End illegal immigration, track people on visas and arrest them when they fail to report an address change or if they overstay their visa, and I'm pretty sure the problems mostly end.

I grew up on a street where I was the only white kid. Everyone else was asian(mostly Japanese descent) or Hispanic. Everyone got together every 4th for a block party. I grew up with the other kids and went to school with them. Race really wasn't ever an issue because everyone was simply American. Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I don't think that race has much to do with it, although culture does. So even though there was a mix of religions and ethnic backgrounds, everyone shared American culture.

33   MMR   2016 Aug 9, 8:29am  

tatupu70 says

Pollocks,

Is that like Jackson Pollock? Oh, you mean POLACK

Pollock rhymes with bollock

34   MMR   2016 Aug 9, 8:40am  

anonymous says

We suspect that blacks and Latinos also report lower trust for other reasons, including continuing discrimination, victimization by the police and hostile political rhetoric.

And the most obvious one that was missed, which is black on black crime. That has little to do worn hostile political rhetoric or police victimization and is only indirectly related to discrimination at best.

35   Dan8267   2016 Aug 9, 8:58am  

FortWayne says

Diversity is good if people want to become part of American culture.

There is no single American culture as made clear by the cowboy vs hippie culture war and many others. Nor need there be. The only cultural values that should be universal are Western, not American, values of liberty, democracy, equality under law, and transparency in government.

FortWayne says

Why would someone care for their neighbor if they have nothing in common and have completely different goals.

Morality. It's your god who demands that you care about every single one of your neighbors as if they are your brother. That's kind of the entire point of Christianity from Genesis saying you are your brothers keeper to Jesus saying love your neighbor as yourself.

Once again the atheist has to school Christians on Jesus's teachings. So much for Christianity influencing people to be good.

FortWayne says

Diversity works fine until liberals come in and start fixing it, then it all goes to shit.

Another vague accusation that Fort Wayne will not back up with a specific example.

dodgerfanjohn says

End illegal immigration

Easy to do. Just make all immigration legal and take off quotas. What's that? You don't want to do that? Oh, so it's not illegal immigration that you oppose; it's actually immigration you oppose. That would be fine if you had the balls to be intellectually honest, but you don't.

The immigration issue isn't about not documenting immigrants. We live in the god damn information age. Every immigrant is documented by the NSA and Google merely by having a phone, email address, or bank account. It's nearly impossible today to not be documented in just about every freaking act you do including wacking off behind that tree. So immigration complaints have nothing to do with documenting immigrants or having them go through a process. Any process we want to impose can easily be done in minutes using computers rather than years unless the entire purpose of that process is to delay or decrease immigration. And if that's the case, let's be honest about it and actually discuss how much net immigration we want and what exactly is the criteria for immigrants we want. Anything less is bullshit.

I have no problem stating that I want immigrants to be intelligent, educated, and liberal. And yes, being liberal should be a requirement of immigrating to any western nation. Western civilization is founded on liberal principles and if a person disagrees with democracy, liberty, equality under law, etc. then they cannot be assimilated into our society. Hell, we should even require that people are not affiliated with any religion and fully accept science and reject all supernatural nonsense (superstitions). We need people who are intelligent, rational, and believe in liberty.

36   HEY YOU   2016 Aug 9, 9:19am  

If you are not a native American get out of the U.S.
Take your diversity somewhere else.

37   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2016 Aug 14, 10:52am  

purchasecialis says

Is there any way you may take away me from that service?

Kill yourself?

38   Rew   2016 Aug 17, 9:57am  

HydroCabron says

I suppose Khan, a moderate Muslim, didn't do enough to speak out against extremists, or something.

In my best Trump voice: "These people, these people, they brought us zero ... zero, zip, nada ... literally. You can look it up."

#mathjokesneverwork

40   Patrick   2018 Nov 29, 5:38pm  

Rew says
In my best Trump voice: "These people, these people, they brought us zero ... zero, zip, nada ... literally. You can look it up."


@Rew it's a good joke, but it's not true. The Hindus invented zero:

"Zero and its operation are first defined by [Hindu astronomer and mathematician] Brahmagupta in 628," said Gobets. He developed a symbol for zero: a dot underneath numbers. "But he, too, does not claim to have invented zero, which presumably must have been around for some time," Gobets added.


https://www.livescience.com/27853-who-invented-zero.html
41   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2018 Nov 29, 5:54pm  

diversity stops working when it goes too far. because people get into groups and start demanding that their group be in charge.

it is bewildering that we have laws that reduce funding for schools with white kids, while increase funding for schools with non white kids. There's your diversity, it's still human nature to get your group to the top at the expense of the other.
43   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Nov 29, 6:25pm  

Too little diversity can lead to purity spirals (huge conflict over extremely petty issues), ossification, and the inability to adapt with enough timeliness or strength if conditions DO change.

But too much diversity, and little can be agreed upon, leaving vulnerability to breakdown. Sociologists (a la Putnam) have long documented that once a minority approaches 15-20% in an urban area, all trust - not just between the majority and minority groups, but within both groups, as well as between individuals and institutions, etc. - take a nose dive.

The other problem with diversity is that by every objective and quantifiable standard, Western CIvilization is both vastly superior to , with a very different history and trajectory from, Islamic and Black African civilizations. It is both less obviously superior nor historically different from, Asian civilization. Hispanic Civilization is really a cadet branch of Western Civ in most ways, albeit a very narrow Iberian branch off.

Unsurprisingly, Asian and Hispanic migrants tend to be little different than European migrants in their ease of accommodation. Black Africans and Arabs are difficult to assimilate. Especially Black Muslims like Somalians and Eritreans.

Unfortunately, the demonstrably false cultural relativist ideas popular and enforced by unsanctioned "judicial philosophy" (ie Peer Pressure among the wrongly educated) makes it impossible to manage immigration by region or culture.

We would literally lose nothing in a Muslim Ban, or at least a restriction to only very secularized, already English Speaking, already Western Educated individuals from those lands (ie a trained Doctor from Khartoum whose grandfather served in the British Army, whose father was an official in the Foreign Ministry who regularly dealt with Europeans, who himself spoke English in the home AND in School, whose connection to Islam is tenuous and best described as "MINO")
44   Patrick   2018 Nov 29, 7:52pm  

I agree that some diversity is a good thing. You get exposed to new ideas, new ways of doing things, etc.

But there needs to be a single main dominant culture (I did not say race) for a country to remain a country.

I posted a link to some study by an economist recently which showed there is actually an optimum level of diversity for maximum economic progress and minimum civil wars. Latin America was given as an example area with too little diversity, and Africa as an example area of too much diversity. That's also interesting because it mirrors the actual genetic and linguistic diversity of those places.
45   BayArea   2018 Nov 29, 9:47pm  

When you go to countries without diversity, people give up their seat to elderly on buses/trains, step in to break up public fights, etc

In countries with diversity, people stay seated and pull out their cell phone cameras when they see a physical dispute.
46   CBOEtrader   2018 Nov 30, 6:27am  

Herdingcats says
Sociologists Maria Abascal, of Princeton University, and Delia Baldassari, of New York University, published a paper late last year which refutes Putnam’s conclusions. After reanalyzing the same dataset used by Putnam, Abascal and Baldassari asserted that when it comes to distrust and diversity, most of the distrust is expressed by Whites who feel uncomfortable living amongst racial minorities. In other words, greater distrust may stem from prejudice rather than from diversity per se. Therefore, Putnam’s conclusion that racial diversity leads to less altruism and cooperation amongst neighbors was incorrect. If there is a downside to diversity, it has less to do with the behavior of racial minorities and more to do with how Whites feel when living amongst non-Whites


This smacks of flawed ideology rather than scientific rigor.
47   CBOEtrader   2018 Nov 30, 6:29am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Unsurprisingly, Asian and Hispanic migrants tend to be little different than European migrants in their ease of accommodation. Black Africans and Arabs are difficult to assimilate. Especially Black Muslims like Somalians and Eritreans.


Why is this unsurprising though? Indian-Americans have the highest per capita income, yet you'd be hard pressed to find cultures more unique to ours than India.
48   Patrick   2018 Nov 30, 6:48am  

No way. The graphs were painfully clear. Diversity was directly negatively correlated with all forms of civic engagement.

Reminds me of the "scientists" who claim there is no race by being overly vague and technical in their definition of race.
49   Bd6r   2018 Nov 30, 7:04am  

Herdingcats says
Turns out some people think Putnam was wrong.

Sociologists Maria Abascal, of Princeton University, and Delia Baldassari, of New York University, published a paper late last year which refutes Putnam’s conclusions. After reanalyzing the same dataset used by Putnam, Abascal and Baldassari asserted that when it comes to distrust and diversity, most of the distrust is expressed by Whites who feel uncomfortable living amongst racial minorities. In other words, greater distrust may stem from prejudice rather than from diversity per se. Therefore, Putnam’s conclusion that racial diversity leads to less altruism and cooperation amongst neighbors was incorrect. If there is a downside to diversity, it has less to do with the behavior of racial minorities and more to do with how Whites feel when living amongst non-Whites

I do not agree with Patrick's idea that diversity is inherently bad - we can remember that US in 1800's was rather diverse - it had nations living side by side which at the same time were at each other's throats in Europe and at the same time in US they were prospering and building a rich country - but this idea of Abascal that WHITES BAD BECAUSE RACIST ORANGE MAN, MINORITIES GOOD, OPPRESSED BY WHITES sounds just like typical NPC. Whites are undoubtedly the least raycist of all races now. I know quite a few TX Vietnamese - how they talk among themselves is not acceptable in white society - children get shunned if they date black people, Hispanics are not much better - they are not PC and actually say what they think etc.
50   Bd6r   2018 Nov 30, 7:06am  

Patrick says
No way. The graphs were painfully clear. Diversity was directly negatively correlated with all forms of civic engagement.

I wonder how one defines "civic engagement" and if all of "civic engagement" is actually good. SJW'ism also can probably be called civic engagement.
51   Bd6r   2018 Nov 30, 7:11am  

CBOEtrader says
most of the distrust is expressed by Whites who feel uncomfortable living amongst racial minorities.


I thought it is the PC police who always claims that it is uncomfortable for minorities to live among white people. I am in a city that is so-called "minority-majority" and I do not feel uncomfortable. Neither do any of my friends. Furthermore, the city is perhaps one of the economically most vibrant in US despite high diversity, and has relatively low crime for a large city, which goes against Patrick's idea of diversity being inherently bad.
52   CBOEtrader   2018 Nov 30, 7:31am  

Herdingcats says
CBOEtrader says
This smacks of flawed ideology rather than scientific rigor.


Yet they used the same data set.


yes, you are emphasizing my point.

The study was done in a white majority country, and therefore those infected with this toxic ideology see that as evidence "to do with how Whites feel when living amongst non-Whites" . This is pure ideological dogma.
53   CBOEtrader   2018 Nov 30, 7:38am  

d6rB says
Patrick's idea of diversity being inherently bad.


In a corporate culture, diversity of thought is GOOD as long as everyone shares the same corporate VISION.

Classic liberal values built on the writ of habeas corpus, freedom of speech, assumption of innocence, and equality under the law should be our shared American vision. If the vision of a classic liberal society is shared, then diversity is great. Jordan Peterson describes these Western cultural values as "nothing short of a miracle."

Unfortunately the cult of diversity wants to destroy these miracles of western culture. ^^ that is toxic diversity as opposed to diversity of though.
54   Patrick   2018 Nov 30, 8:13am  

d6rB says
I do not agree with Patrick's idea that diversity is inherently bad


Not always. Like that economist, I believe there is some relatively small level of diversity which is optimum. Not zero, but not large.
55   Goran_K   2018 Nov 30, 8:40am  

MegaForce says
The US needs to radically decentralize along these lines it if is to avoid Civil War 2 down the road. The Reds and Blues can not see eye to eye on many common things that Americans used to, so the Feds should devolve health care, welfare and many other functions to the Sates or interstate compacts of the States.


Bingo. Let the states have it or let Civil War 2 happen and let one party reign supreme.
56   Shaman   2018 Nov 30, 8:52am  

We can have multi-ethnic societies that work. I’d argue that America is quite diverse in this way. But multiculturalism on top of this makes for isolated groups within the country which neither understand nor trust each other and often find the ways and practices of the other groups annoying or laughable.
Which is why you have blacks vs Koreans, Latinos vs. blacks, And Japanese vs everyone.

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