patrick.net

I believe that there are way too many monuments dedicated to the confederacy. It's good that many of these are coming down. This will not erase history any more than tearing down monuments to Hitler would make people forget about the holocaust.
Aside for the dummies : I didn't say that the Confederates were as bad as Hitler.
Many of these monuments belong in a museum.
Spencer is the nazi version of anti fa. If his team is less violent, it is because they have had many more years to figure out what makes an effective demonstration.

'Forgetting' about genocidal events, given enough time, is inevitable.

It was always inevitable that the enormity of the Holocaust would recede in public awareness. The human mind is built to forget; neither individuals nor societies can prevent the intensity of agonizing memories from diminishing over time. In a new book, “In Praise of Forgetting,” David Rieff reflects on King Philip’s War, a murderous conflict between English settlers and Indians in 17th-century New England. On a per capita basis, it was the bloodiest war in American history, and those who survived the carnage must surely have been passionate in their conviction that it never be forgotten.

Dispiriting as those numbers are, they are bound to grow even worse. As the generation of Holocaust survivors passes away, as Holocaust-deniers spread their poison, as indifference to history takes its inevitable toll, remembrance of the Nazis’ Jewish genocide will dissipate.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/30/never-forget-world-said-holocaust-but-world-forgetting/59cUqLNFxylkW7BDuRPgNK/story.html

YesYNot says

I believe that there are way too many monuments dedicated to the confederacy. It's good that many of these are coming down. This will not erase history any more than tearing down monuments to Hitler would make people forget about the holocaust.

BlueSardine says

as Holocaust-deniers spread their poison, as indifference to history takes its inevitable toll, remembrance of the Nazis’ Jewish genocide will dissipate.

Why did you have to bring Spicer into it? Everybody knows he's lying when he's behind the podium. Of course he knows about the holocaust centers.

That horse has a pencil dick.

FortWayne says

Liberals always trying to rewrite history and draw rainbows on everything.

There's nothing to rewrite about the Civil War. The traitorous South killed lots of Americans in order to hold onto slavery, an abomination that only the most immoral people engaged in. There's nothing more to say about the Civil War.

CBOEtrader says

There is literally 100 times as much evidence for the Clinton kill list

Jesus. You don't even realize that you reject all information that doesn't fit your narrative and accept all information that agrees with it. I pretty much filter out the ridiculous claims on either side. I call them ridiculous if (1) nobody is found guilty of something and (2) personal accounts contradict the narrative (3) the only people pushing the narrative are making a living selling it.
So, I didn't give any credence to the killary clinton stories and I didn't give any to the Trump is a repeated rapist of underage girls.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

Liberals always trying to rewrite history and draw rainbows on everything.

There's nothing to rewrite about the Civil War. The traitorous South killed lots of Americans in order to hold onto slavery, an abomination that only the most immoral people engaged in. There's nothing more to say about the Civil War.

South had their right to separate, your GED is flaring up again Dan.

Just watched it and thought it was great, now to get wife to watch it.

FortWayne says

South had their right to separate, your GED is flaring up again Dan.

Actually, according to our laws, they don't. Once a territory is part of the country, there is no legal mechanism for it to leave.

But hey, if you want to argue that succession should be a right, fine. But it does not mean the South had a right to enslave people. So they are still the villains in the story, period. You are simply trying to rewrite history.

By the way, why the fuck should I care about the rights of slavers? If you don't respect the right of a person to not be murdered, tortured, or rape, why should I respect your right to take land away from our country?

The trick is to just "happen" to be watching it when she's around.

Is there a free and simple way to watch The Red Pill movie?

errc says

Is there a free and simple way to watch The Red Pill movie?

Kodi

http://theredpillmovie.com/screenings/buy-rent-stream/

marcus says

I think it's entirely possible to be a liberal in the south and at the same time be sentimental or at least historically appreciative (or interested in) of the confederacy. That is without claiming that they should have won the civil war and while acknowledging that slavery was destined to end. The fact that some racists use the confederate flag as a symbol of white supremacy, should not mean that we all have to see it that way.

IT has historical significance that isn't simple, and a lot of people are descended from people that died on one side or the other.

Holy Shit! Marcus's best post EVER!!!

YesYNot says

I believe that there are way too many monuments dedicated to the confederacy. It's good that many of these are coming down.

Based on...

Dan8267 says

Lee was a traitor, by definition.

So were the Founding Fathers, by definition...

Dan8267 says

But it does not mean the South had a right to enslave people. So they are still the villains in the story, period. You are simply trying to rewrite history.

Neither did the Union, yet Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, and Kentucky all had slaves during the civil war. OMG the US flag is a symbol of hate!!!!

Great Britain outlawed slavery in 1833, 25 years before our civil war started. Would GB have been justified in starting a war w us to force us to end slavery? Slavery would have ended on its own, albeit slower in the south where it was a larger part of the economy.

The Civil War was fought to free the slaves is about as accurate as Operation Iraqi Freedom was about muslim women's rights.

Dan8267 says

There's nothing to rewrite about the Civil War. The traitorous South killed lots of Americans in order to hold onto slavery, an abomination that only the most immoral people engaged in.

Once again, Dan has proven himself illiterate when it comes to history. Lincoln has multiple recorded speeches stating the war had NOTHING to do with slavery. Slavery was a blip on the radar of this country compared to say, Africa, where is it still widely practiced. Secession was due to unfair taxation and tariffs the feds tried to impose on the south. The war started because the north wouldn't let the south break away from the union(again see Lincoln's speeches), NOT due to slavery. Most of the southern's who have statues, didn't own slaves.

Dan8267 says

Actually, according to our laws, they don't.

Dan, you would make Benedict Arnold proud.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

- Declaration of Independence

CBOEtrader says

Your question was why are they removing them.

Democrats don't want to remind everyone of their past.

ISIS tears down statues and tries to erase "pre-Islamic" history too.

"The Civil War was fought to free the slaves is about as accurate as Operation Iraqi Freedom was about muslim women's rights."

The Civil War was fought to keep the country together. The South seceded to keep the right to own slaves.

"Secession was due to unfair taxation and tariffs the feds tried to impose on the south. The war started because the north wouldn't let the south break away from the union(again see Lincoln's speeches), NOT due to slavery. Most of the southern's who have statues, didn't own slaves."

OK, please detail exactly which taxes and tariffs caused the South the secede then. When they were enacted, etc.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Reading the secession letter, I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War. But, I'm frequently surprised...

NuttBoxer says

So were the Founding Fathers, by definition...

Yes, but do you hold betraying England on the same level as betraying America?

In any case, the American revolution was far more justifiable than the South's treason.

CBOEtrader says

Slavery would have ended on its own, albeit slower in the south where it was a larger part of the economy.

Terrorism would end on its own, but how many American lives are you willing to sacrifice in the meantime? All rapists stop raping eventually. After all, they eventually die. Does that mean the police should do nothing to stop rapists?

The life of a single slave is worth more than the lives of all slavers. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slavers are the worst criminals.

CBOEtrader says

The Civil War was fought to free the slaves is about as accurate as Operation Iraqi Freedom was about muslim women's rights.

That's bullshit. The conservative right always tries to rewrite history to state that the Civil War was fought for any reason other than over slavery. The newspapers of the time clearly state that slavery is unequivocally the reason for the South fighting the war. Do you really want me to humiliate you with the countless examples of this?

NuttBoxer says

Once again, Dan has proven himself illiterate when it comes to history. Lincoln has multiple recorded speeches stating the war had NOTHING to do with slavery. Slavery was a blip on the radar of this country compared to say, Africa, where is it still widely practiced.

Another revisionist. Come on, want to get into an evidence war with me?

NuttBoxer says

Dan, you would make Benedict Arnold proud.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

- Declaration of Independence

What hypocrisy! First of all, the above quote does not justify the South's treason. Second, it does justify the North kicking the South's ass since the "safety and happiness" of the slaves justifies "abolishing" the governments of the South. Third, it would justify a slave revolt killing off all your ancestors before your great grandparents were born. Finally, you are making a lame ass poisoning the well argument. That's a sign of a very weak position.

But hey, if you are a complete hypocrite, then you must support a violent uprising against our current government. And, of course, you must also support Snowden and Manning release of information relevant to the secret actions of the government. I mean, if you didn't, that would be utter hypocrisy. So go on and praise Snowden and Manning.

It's really amazing how far the conservative right will take their lies. They are ridiculous as their cousins, the conservative left.

Quigley says

Germany was a haven for Jews for centuries. Might be the higher intelligence bred into the population as Jews intermixed with Germans. I like to think I might have Jewish ancestors.

If you want to know, do the 23 and me thing. It's scarily accurate about Jewish ancestry. My maternal grandfather was Jewish, and they pegged me at 25.6% Jewish.

Dan8267 says

The life of a single slave is worth more than the lives of all slavers. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slavers are the worst criminals.

Dan8267 says

What hypocrisy! First of all, the above quote does not justify the South's treason. Second, it does justify the North kicking the South's ass since the "safety and happiness" of the slaves justifies "abolishing" the governments of the South.

You you think GB should have attacked us in1840? What about the dozens of other countries that still had slaves at the time of the civil war? As gross as slavery was, war is worse. Slavery does not justify war. Especially when slavery would be gone from the entire civilized world within 50 years.

Also, i really thought you'd have learned this by now, no war is fought for human rights. Ever. It is always about money/power. The north invaded the south for money/power. They were disproportionately dumping the tax burden on the south and reaping the benefits in the north. The north didnt want their honey-pot to walk away.

Dan8267 says

Terrorism would end on its own, but how many American lives are you willing to sacrifice in the meantime?

Terrorism would end on its own if we stopped bombing people and arming/funding warlords. Doing nothing would be far more effective and morally superior than bombing the entire world.

Dan8267 says

So go on and praise Snowden and Manning.

they are both heroes, imho.

CBOEtrader says

Terrorism would end on its own if we stopped bombing people and arming/funding warlords. Doing nothing would be far more effective and morally superior than bombing the entire world.

Isn't that exactly what Obama did that led to the blitzkrieg of ISIS taking over major cities building their caliphate? It was really "morally superior" to sit back and do nothing while ISIS was committing genocide preying on vulnerable religious minority groups and destroying ancient archaeological sites?

And don't most of the terrorists and warlords use Russian and Chinese weapons like the AK47 that is flooded all over the 3rd world?

rando says

they pegged me at 25.6% Jewish.

Does that mean you pump 74.4% of your gas?

Jews don't pump gas?

CBOEtrader says

you think GB should have attacked us in1840?

Straw man argument. I think the North was right to fight the South to end slavery for the exact same reason it would be right today for the U.S. military to take out a slaver regime.

CBOEtrader says

As gross as slavery was, war is worse.

Are you saying that you would not fight a war to prevent you and your family from being made slaves? I highly doubt that you would throw down your arms and let Mohamed take your daughter as a slave.

There are legitimate causes for war. Stopping slavery and genocide are two of them.

CBOEtrader says

Also, i really thought you'd have learned this by now, no war is fought for human rights. Ever. It is always about money/power.

Human rights require power. Are you saying that WWII and the American Revolution were not justified? I'll give you that most of America's military actions aren't justified, but ending slavery in America wasn't one of these unjustified actions.

CBOEtrader says

they are both heroes, imho.

Tell that to everyone on the conservative right including every Republican in Congress.

rando says

Jews don't pump gas?

I heard that stereotype on Howard Stern back in the 1990s. Stern had a lot of funny bits pushing the envelope at the time. I wonder if you could do a show like his today.

www.youtube.com/embed/yIC7-vJ0PWk

NuttBoxer says

Based on...

Based on the fact that the statues were designed and built to celebrate people who fought a war over state's rights to own slaves if they so wanted. They were appropriate for the population of the south at the time. The confederate flag was used by various people to fight the civil rights movement. It's good to remember, but it's not always good to celebrate everything that people celebrated 150 yrs ago. There are a few things today that we universally find morally abhorrent. Our statues should reflect current values as well as honor our history. I don't believe that those confederate statues reflect our current values.

socal2 says

ISIS tears down statues and tries to erase "pre-Islamic" history too.

Dan8267 says

rando says

Jews don't pump gas?

I heard that stereotype on Howard Stern back in the 1990s. Stern had a lot of funny bits pushing the envelope at the time. I wonder if you could do a show like his today.

www.youtube.com/embed/yIC7-vJ0PWk

Everything is racist and offensive now, but I always find it strange when people can't discern a Jew from a white person.

Guess which one is Trump? Ther's even a wall LOL!
Mike Judge at 1:23

www.youtube.com/embed/ocJ1GTnmO-w