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housing prices peak 2


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2022 Apr 29, 9:29pm   462,789 views  4,804 comments

by AD   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net

Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.

Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.

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1368   AD   2022 Nov 21, 7:09pm  

richwicks says


People will be making fun of Facebook in time in the same way we ONCE did about Yahoo! and more recently MySpace.


I hope they would lay off any manager who would fire someone they don't like and is a good performer.

I suspect Facebook will adopt and evolve to avoid the same fate. Look at how popular Facebook Reels is. I've seen Reels videos in my Facebook feed that have over 1 million views and 200,000 likes. Instagram is as popular as Youtube.

There may be competitors and Tik Tok is a joke.

My HOA has a Facebook page. I've seen other pages that have serious and thought engaging content like Interesting Engineering page.

Tik Tok does not provide that type of forum.
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1369   B.A.C.A.H.   2022 Nov 21, 7:11pm  

ad says


I'm not haolie, boy. My family is from Colombia.

You'll stand out as one of those, too. They may assume you're a custodian or groundskeeper.

We got so many experts about Silicon Valley on patrick.net who didn't live here, who didn't work in those places, have no connections to those places.

I've done all that sh*t and been one of those and many I am close to are in that millieu, including at some outfits (ie, more than one of them) mentioned in this thread.

Speaking anonymously here like richwicks does, I can speak more freely about it.
1370   AD   2022 Nov 21, 7:36pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says

We got so many experts about Silicon Valley on patrick.net who didn't live here, who didn't work in those places, have no connections to those places.


I am not Mestizo and would not have been selected as an extra in Mel Gibson's Apocalypto.

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1371   B.A.C.A.H.   2022 Nov 21, 7:40pm  

ad says

I am not Mestizo and would not have been selected as an extra in Mel Gibson's Apocalypto.

Sounds like a haolie to me, bro.
1372   AD   2022 Nov 21, 7:48pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says

Sounds like a haolie to me, bro.


Ask those Indians if they consider themselves the same type of Asian as the Chinese. Ask them what they think of the Chicoms.

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1373   B.A.C.A.H.   2022 Nov 21, 8:08pm  

ad says


Ask those Indians if they consider themselves the same type of Asian as the Chinese. Ask them what they think of the Chicoms.

Dude, I retired recently. The only time I see those folks nowadays is when I go to their enclave communities to walk about the city. The Indian enclaves are in parts of Sunnyvale and an area known as The Golden Triangle.

The Chinese enclave is Cupertino.

But even though I don't live among them, I worked side by side with all those sorts of folks for decades. I even had a boss who was an H1. Since I was in hardware, there were also Chinese H1's and green carders (if I was in software or IT, well that'd just be the Indians). Most of the departments I worked in had about 40% Indian, 40% Chinese, 20% everyone else. Even worked with a haolie Colombian expat H1 who married his green card.

Chinese and Indians mostly were civil to each other in meetings and collaborations. Of course, they would mostly hire their own kind. But, civil with each other.

BTW, if you only ever lived in what became Silicon Valley, and spent decades in engineering departments in the tech world, you would probably be able to differentiate what you call a Chicom and a Taiwanese. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I am sure someone who actually lived here and knew wtf they were talking about, would understand my point.
1374   AD   2022 Nov 21, 8:35pm  

B.A.C.A.H. says


BTW, if you only ever lived in what became Silicon Valley, and spent decades in engineering departments in the tech world, you would probably be able to differentiate what you call a Chicom and a Taiwanese. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I am sure someone who actually lived here and knew wtf they were talking about, would understand my point.


Don't care to know about that shithole. I'm happy to work in better places like Braintree and Quincy, Massachusetts and Reston, Virginia.

Sounds like a tribal culture as far as what you describe (i.e., "Chinese enclave is Cupertino" and "mostly hire their own kind"). Yeah I am sure it was all California-style Kumbaya (i.e., "civil with each other"). Enjoy your white liberal shithole paradise.
1375   Misc   2022 Nov 21, 11:43pm  

Nothing that a few more million illegals can't cure.
1376   Booger   2022 Nov 22, 3:48am  

B.A.C.A.H. says


Meta's H-1B layoffs challenge visa holders


ERECTION INTENSIFYING!!!
1377   AD   2022 Nov 22, 10:46am  

Misc says

Nothing that a few more million illegals can't cure.


It was commonplace to see in Manassas Park back in the late 1990's and the 2000's at least two families in a home designed and zoned for one family.

A lot of 3 to 4 bedroom homes became boarding houses.
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1378   AD   2022 Nov 22, 10:49am  

Booger says

Meta's H-1B layoffs challenge visa holders

ERECTION INTENSIFYING!!!


I don't see the tech companies letting go of a workforce (i.e., H1B visas) that are easy to exploit. I've worked around H1B visas and they are docile and loved by management, cause they will work +50 hours a week without any overtime or credit toward vacation time.

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1379   Ceffer   2022 Nov 22, 11:02am  

Esclavos.
ad says

hey will work +50 hours a week without any overtime or credit toward vacation time.
1380   Eman   2022 Nov 22, 1:20pm  

Plunged 32.3% YoY while still higher than the last housing bubble peak, and 5x more buying than the bottom. Just put things in perspective rather than a sensational headline without context. The Fed had really helped to fuel this asset bubble. 🚀🚀

1381   AD   2022 Nov 22, 2:35pm  

Eman says

Plunged 32.3% YoY


Its got to drop to at least 10,000 housing units for housing prices to reach near the bottom.

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1382   Eman   2022 Nov 22, 3:14pm  

cisTits says

Eman says


Plunged 32.3% YoY while still higher than the last housing bubble peak, and 5x more buying than the bottom.


So what? A 32% drop is still a 32% drop. Who gives a flying fuck about 'last time'?

Are you one of the 'housing experts' who told us earlier this year that rates would not go up like they have? That housing prices would not drop as they have?

I see you like to label people without proof. Also, you’re quite emotional when it comes to this subject. Let’s clarify a couple things. I’ve never claimed I’m a housing expert. I’m a real estate investor, who started in 2009 just before I found Patnet. My biz partner and I own about 100 units in San Jose. We are value-add investors. We don’t pay retail prices. All assets have positive cash flow and appreciated tremendously…up to 4x.

I wasn’t as optimistic as others earlier this year. However, I never thought 30-year fixed mortgage would exceed 6% without crushing the housing market. I’m surprised the housing market hasn’t tanked more than they are.

I’m a numbers guy. I’m ALWAYS a buyer and seller “for the right price”. RE assets are vehicles to get me to my destination, just like a job. I don’t get emotional about them. I haven’t seen rent softness in MY market as reported. In fact, we’ve been getting record rents in the last few months.

The Fed has blown the asset bubbles beyond repair. The only way to fix these asset bubbles is to drive the entire country into a deep depression to reset everything. Do you see it happening? If not, the housing market should rebound and make another run once this recession is over. Developers have already pulled back on current projects and stalled new developments, which should continue to prolong the housing shortage in the short and long term.
1383   Eman   2022 Nov 22, 3:21pm  

Back in 2012, our real estate investing group asked all members to make prediction on the next peak of the housing market. My prediction was summer 2017. One of our members predicted 2021-2023 and shared this chart… A DECADE AGO. He was right on 🎯. He also predicted the bottom around 2027. History suggests 3-5 years, peak to trough, for real estate cycles so 2027 is in the ballpark.

One of my besties works for the Federal Reserve. JPOW is his boss. As much as he’s in the knows, he didn’t foresee his boss and the other 6 governors hiking rates this aggressively.

1385   Booger   2022 Nov 23, 8:39am  

https://www.businessinsider.com/real-estate-investors-are-fleeing-pandemic-boomtowns-2022-11

Regular homebuyers in Las Vegas and Phoenix stand a chance now that investors are fleeing pandemic boomtowns
1386   AD   2022 Nov 23, 8:55am  

cisTits says


And it will at this rate? What? You all think this will suddenly stop and plateau? Or even rise again.

Takes 18 months at least for a housing downturn to run its course. This is barely starting


I would say at least half of the home purchases are with buyers with mortgages. So affordability (principal, interest, property tax, property insurance, and HOA fee) is a major factor as far as price discovery.

I go by the VA mortgage criteria that monthly housing cost (principal, interest, etc.) is no more than around 37% of monthly household income.

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1387   Eman   2022 Nov 23, 9:08am  

Booger says





To counter your meme, here’s a “real expert” suggests housing prices could rise in 2023. 😂

NAR Economist Lawrence Yun suggests national prices could rise 1% next year, breaking from the pack of projections suggesting a freefall.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/nar-economist-housing-prices-rise
1389   GNL   2022 Nov 23, 10:54am  

Eman says

Booger says







To counter your meme, here’s a “real expert” suggests housing prices could rise in 2023. 😂

NAR Economist Lawrence Yun suggests national prices could rise 1% next year, breaking from the pack of projections suggesting a freefall.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/nar-economist-housing-prices-rise

An NAR cheerleader is a "Real Expert"?
1390   HeadSet   2022 Nov 23, 11:38am  

GNL says

An NAR cheerleader is a "Real Expert"?

I am pretty sure that claiming Yun as an expert is tongue-in-cheek. Lawrence Yun is a long-time butt of jokes on Patrick.net.
1391   Blue   2022 Nov 23, 11:41am  

GNL says


Eman says


Booger says







To counter your meme, here’s a “real expert” suggests housing prices could rise in 2023. 😂

NAR Economist Lawrence Yun suggests national prices could rise 1% next year, breaking from the pack of projections suggesting a freefall.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/nar-economist-housing-prices-rise


An NAR cheerleader is a "Real Expert"?


Not sure what happens but at some point it stops going down except for few expensive areas as the inflation that is backed by corrupt gov is not going to slowing down any time soon.
1392   B.A.C.A.H.   2022 Nov 23, 1:29pm  

Eman says

this chart

I have tried to chart asset values/prices like that.

Yes, we can do it and spin a narrative.

The problem I have with the approach is the vertical axis units is fiat currency. The value / purchasing power of the fiat is not constant and should not be taken for granted.

While the absolute (nominal) values in the chart may be accurate, if we are not careful our conclusions may be misleading.
1393   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Nov 24, 3:07pm  

11/11/2022 Price change $775,000 (-1.9%)$294/sqft

9/23/2022 Price change $790,000 (-11.2%)$300/sqft

9/2/2022 Price change $889,500 (-1.1%)$338/sqft

8/4/2022 Price change $899,000 (-3.3%)$342/sqft

7/11/2022 Listed for sale $929,500 $353/sqft

1394   Ceffer   2022 Nov 24, 5:03pm  

I saw one house in Santa Cruz (still absurdly high) that had a 500,000 dollar reduction. It was about 2500 sq. ft close to the beach.
1397   Booger   2022 Nov 25, 5:46pm  

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/11/22/jacksonville-housing-market-sees-big-slowdown-home-purchases-fall-through-at-highest-rate-in-nation/

Jacksonville housing market sees big slowdown, home purchases fall through at highest rate in nation
1398   AD   2022 Nov 25, 6:34pm  

Booger says

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/11/22/jacksonville-housing-market-sees-big-slowdown-home-purchases-fall-through-at-highest-rate-in-nation/

Jacksonville housing market sees big slowdown, home purchases fall through at highest rate in nation


Its about affordability where housing costs (principal+interest+taxes+insurance+hoa fees) is not more than about 36% of household income.

I expect housing will over-correct and there will be bloodshed which means housing affordability will be in a lot better circumstance.

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1399   richwicks   2022 Nov 25, 7:38pm  

cisTits says

New data from Redfin confirms that Investors are running scared


And this is the problem. There's "investors".
1400   AD   2022 Nov 25, 7:50pm  

richwicks says


cisTits says

New data from Redfin confirms that Investors are running scared

And this is the problem. There's "investors".


True, over the last 22 years housing has become more of a speculative asset. Some of this is the home equity line of credit (HELOC) as home owners view their home equity as an investment or asset. Some use the HELOC money to invest in the stock market.
1401   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Nov 26, 4:20am  

Booger says

Jacksonville housing market sees big slowdown, home purchases fall through at highest rate in nation

Race and Hispanic Origin
White alone, percent - 56.3%
Black or African American alone, percent - 30.9%
1402   gabbar   2022 Nov 26, 5:56am  

I noticed that real estate agents give buyers a printed boiler plate home purchase agreement to complete and sign. Do they have an editable version of this agreement that they choose not to provide to buyers?
1403   Eman   2022 Nov 26, 2:06pm  

If you think it’s possible, it’s possible. If you think it’s impossible, keep your W2 and help build other people’s dreams.

It’s always a great time to buy or sell “for the right price.” We’re always buyers and sellers “for the right price.” Retailers are the problem, not investors. Let that sink in.

1404   AD   2022 Nov 26, 3:55pm  

gabbar says


I noticed that real estate agents give buyers a printed boiler plate home purchase agreement to complete and sign. Do they have an editable version of this agreement that they choose not to provide to buyers?


If its the standard form required by HUD, you can modify parts of it based on agreement of both parties.

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1405   Eman   2022 Nov 26, 5:09pm  

ad says

richwicks says



cisTits says

New data from Redfin confirms that Investors are running scared

And this is the problem. There's "investors".


True, over the last 22 years housing has become more of a speculative asset. Some of this is the home equity line of credit (HELOC) as home owners view their home equity as an investment or asset. Some use the HELOC money to invest in the stock market.


This is not entire correct. Housing was on fire sale in late 2000’s and early 2010’s. Fortunes are made during recessions, or shall I say wealth transfer? A ton of money from the world was transferred here to buy real estate during those years.

HELOC is a double-edged sword. Some people use their HELOC to start-up their companies while others use it to buy liabilities. It’s not all bad…
1406   AD   2022 Nov 26, 7:54pm  

Eman says

Housing was on fire sale in late 2000’s and early 2010’s.


Look at the rate of increase for housing prices since the late 1990s. Yes, California has a lot of foreign buyers, as well as Miami Beach.



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1407   Eman   2022 Nov 26, 11:46pm  

ad says

Eman says


Housing was on fire sale in late 2000’s and early 2010’s.


Look at the rate of increase for housing prices since the late 1990s. Yes, California has a lot of foreign buyers, as well as Miami Beach.




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I used to study these housing charts and data. That was all I saw in my sleep. I was able to recognize 2009 was the bottom of the housing market and started buying. Then I decided to quit my W2 in late 2009 to focus on real estate investing full-time. Everyone thought I was crazy. I documented my journey in the early years here along with iwog. Once I switched to buying apartments in 2013, I started to share this journey on Biggerpockets.

Looking back, it’s like hitting stock options from a start-up company. Can’t make this kind of money working my W2 engineering job for the rest of my life. I’ll have residual income for life….like collecting dividends without paying taxes. Work hard for a few years and then sit back and enjoy the fruit of our labor for decades to come. What a great deal. This reminds me of what Gary Keller, co-founder of Keller Williams said “Anyone can do it, but not everyone will…will you? The journey was foggy at the beginning, but it’s crystal clear once you’re on the other side looking back.

I’ve been able to pay it forward and have helped a few individuals become successful in real estate investing. One individual, who has become wildly successful, calls himself King Khang. Go to YouTube and type in Wholesale to Millions. He has close to 500k subscribers on YouTube and over 3M subscribers on TikTok. A HS dropout who now makes $4M/year. Others are also doing well, but they’re not on social media like him. It’s rewarding to see.

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