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Can anyone find some Democrats willing to debate on patrick.net?


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2022 Nov 10, 3:00pm   81,881 views  699 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

I would like to have a very polite debate with some Democrats on patrick.net.

By polite, I mean refraining from attacking the person in either direction, but sticking to points of argument instead. So no "You are a (whatever)" will not be allowed. The only appropriate use of "you" will be "Here you said..."

I just ran into an old guy in a cafe who pointed in the newspaper to the governor results in California, which added up to 110%. I said, "well, that's California" and so he accused me of being an "election denier". I asked if he'd seen "2000 Mules" and he said he hadn't "because it's been debunked". Uh, it's the same people who committed the election fraud who are claiming that "2000 Mules" was debunked.

Nor had he heard what was on Hunter's laptop, since he watches only corporate news.

I think I might have made a dent in his wall of denial, and I'd like to try with others.

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624   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 29, 9:42pm  

mell says


And there was MUCH disagreement and debate about those three cases on this forum.

Onvacation, I did a bit of research on patnet to look at the history of debate on the Floyd case.

What I found was sort of interesting.

First, if you search "Floyd" you will find random posts going back to 2000... I had no idea patrick.net went back that far... I only started paying attention during the housing bust ~2008 or 2009.

Second, on the initial days after the Floyd news broke, there were several people sympathetic to Floyd, including tenpoundbass and RWSGFY for example.

However as time goes on, and the protests and riots began, peoples opinions changed. Instead of sympathy for Floyd, the prevailing commentary was opposition to BLM and the REACTION to Floyd. I did not see much in the way of debate on the incident itself changing peoples opinions, but rather the galvanization of opinion was occurring due to the chaos and controversy happening on the streets.

I have to wonder... did people really have a debate on whether Floyd death by police officer was right or wrong? or did people have a debate over whether the riots and reactions to the incident were appropriate, and then map their opinions on BLM reactions back to the event itself?

I think the riots and reactions were NOT appropriate. But I still think the death was wrong and the officer did wrong.
625   richwicks   2022 Nov 29, 9:50pm  

DeficitHawk says


However as time goes on, and the protests and riots began, peoples opinions changed. Instead of sympathy for Floyd, the prevailing commentary was opposition to BLM and the REACTION to Floyd. I did not see much in the way of debate on the incident itself changing peoples opinions,


You're ignoring evidence which I've already shown you.
626   Hugh_Mongous   2022 Nov 29, 9:59pm  

DeficitHawk says


In order to build a case you would need these missing pieces of evidence:
1) Evidence that Shokin was aggressively prosecuting the case against Burisma/Hunter
2) Evidence of whatever malfeasance Hunter supposedly did at Burisma


The allegation apparently is that Ukrainian government was buying Joe Biden's favor by funneling money to Hunter via his paycheck at Burisma. And what did it get them? Some blankets and medical supplies. The first weapons that showed up were 160 Javelin launchers provided by.... Donald J. Trump. Not to mention that the Burisma owner (Zlochevsky) was a cabinet member in the government of the previous president Yanukovich a.k.a Russian puppet so the idea that he was carrying water for the new pro-independence president is shaky at best. Oh, and Zlochevsky fucking fled the country not long after Yanukovich did. Why would he do that if he was working with the new government to bribe the VP of the US? It's more likely it was Putin, not Poroshenko who was buying Biden's loyalty via employment in a pro-Russian oligarchs' company.
627   richwicks   2022 Nov 29, 10:05pm  

Hugh_Mongous says


The allegation apparently is that Ukrainian government was buying Joe Biden's favor by funneling money to Hunter via his paycheck at Burisma. And what did it get them? Some blankets and medical supplies.


It got them money, that wasn't spent on blankets and medical supplies.

"Aid" is a BRIBE.

Ukraine, like the United States, and Russia, is controlled by criminal syndicates. Their "leader" is a puppet of them. The "leaders" are responsible for securing funds and if they can't do it, somebody can easily replace them.
628   Onvacation   2022 Nov 29, 10:07pm  

DeficitHawk says

over time everyone totally converged to exactly the same opinion

You're here and you have a very different opinion than many here. Will your opinion change and match the consensus on some, not all, topics discussed here?

Typically, leftists come here and try to argue against logic and evidence until the cognitive dissonance makes their head explode.
629   richwicks   2022 Nov 29, 10:09pm  

Onvacation says


Will your opinion change and match the consensus on some, not all, topics discussed here?


Hopefully his opinion will NOT match the consensus, when he's right.

I am not falling for the "Putler is evil" shit, and I have 8 people very angry with me about that, but I've not been given the information to realize I'm wrong, because I don't think that information exists.

Majority opinion != truth, think we've all come to realize that through this stupid "pandemic".
630   Onvacation   2022 Nov 29, 10:18pm  

DeficitHawk says

I have to wonder... did people really have a debate on whether Floyd death by police officer was right or wrong? or did people have a debate over whether the riots and reactions to the incident were appropriate, and then map their opinions on BLM reactions back to the event itself?

Neither. When the evidence of the Floyd case slowly leaked out the narrative of the brutal police not believing BLM was proven to be propaganda.
631   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 29, 10:50pm  

Onvacation says

Neither. When the evidence of the Floyd case slowly leaked out the narrative of the brutal police not believing BLM was proven to be propaganda.

Thats not the conclusion I reached when I read the old threads, but if you have one in mind, can you point me to it?
632   richwicks   2022 Nov 29, 10:54pm  

DeficitHawk says


Thats not the conclusion I reached when I read the old threads, but if you have one in mind, can you point me to it?


They have already been pointed out to you.

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1902374

Ignorance is self imposed in this day and age.
633   AmericanKulak   2022 Nov 30, 12:25am  

Onvacation says


Neither. When the evidence of the Floyd case slowly leaked out the narrative of the brutal police not believing BLM was proven to be propaganda.

The numbers before the BLM riots don't support the widely held liberal contention that the police are racially violent, either. In actuality, after adjusted for population, White Males are the most likely victim of police shootings, not Blacks. Despite Blacks being disproportionally involved in violent crime at massively disproportionate rates to other ethnic groups.

And, I looked for it recently but haven't found it, Blacks are more racist than any other Group in America, having a more negative view of every single other group: Asians, Whites, Jews, and actually non-American Africans, as well as Homosexuals and Trannies. None of this is a surprise to anybody who went to school/lived with urban Blacks for any length of time.
634   Onvacation   2022 Nov 30, 5:59am  

DeficitHawk says

Thats not the conclusion I reached when I read the old threads

What conclusion did you reach?
636   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 8:24pm  

Patrick says






Oh come on Patrick... you know this type of cherry picking is disingenuous.

You can look for pictures of BLM protests that are peaceful, and you can look for ones that are violent, and you will find both. You can look for Trump protesters at the capitol that are peaceful and you can look for ones that are violent, and you will find both.

I think you are trying to use cherry picking to support a mantra of "only the left is violent" but we both know cherry picked data is not a valid way to make a point. Shame on you for using this logical fallacy, you know better.

(I am amused by the captions though.)
637   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 8:29pm  

AmericanKulak says

The numbers before the BLM riots don't support the widely held liberal contention that the police are racially violent, either. In actuality, after adjusted for population, White Males are the most likely victim of police shootings, not Blacks. Despite Blacks being disproportionally involved in violent crime at massively disproportionate rates to other ethnic groups.


Yeah, I think what you are saying is true. If you look at FBI data for violent crimes, Id say incidents of police shootings by race run approximately in proportion to violent crimes committed by race... and a logical leap may suggest that officer involved shooting incidents are proportional to police contacts with violent individuals.

I'll look for the link i've used for this type of analysis...
638   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 8:41pm  

Here's a link, though the formatting has changed since I last looked at this site, and the various types of crimes have to be searched independently.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

DeficitHawk says

White Males are the most likely victim of police shootings, not Blacks.


This statement is ambiguous, and can be interpreted incorrectly. It is true to say that most police shootings (absolute numbers) are white males. But any individual white male is NOT more likely to be a victim of a police shooting. Individual black males are MORE likely to be victims of police shootings than individual white males.
639   Patrick   2022 Nov 30, 9:14pm  

DeficitHawk says

Oh come on Patrick... you know this type of cherry picking is disingenuous.


Woah, I have to say I think you are no longer even remotely connected to reality @DeficitHawk

BLM is profoundly and repeatedly violent. There were some non-violent BLM protests, but that was against their ethos, which praises violence. Their symbol is a fist.

The Capitol protestors were led in by FBI agent, someone unlocked the doors to let them in, and they were cheerful and not beating up anybody, much less burning anything or murdering people. The Capitol police murdered one of them for no particular reason. Want to see the video?

I no longer believe you are arguing in good faith at all.
640   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 9:30pm  

Patrick says

they were cheerful and not beating up anybody

Sure, Patrick. They were all totally calm and orderly, following police instructions, chipper and friendly as can be.... just like you say. Your characterization is accurate, there were no exceptions. I am disconnected from reality.









641   mell   2022 Nov 30, 9:40pm  

DeficitHawk says


Patrick says


they were cheerful and not beating up anybody

Sure, Patrick. They were all totally calm and orderly, following police instructions, chipper and friendly as can be.... just like you say. Your characterization is accurate, there were no exceptions. I am disconnected from reality.








Rather than regurgitating staged (set up to look as bad as possible and even that didn't succeed as there is hardly any violence depicted in them) pictures you should ask yourself how many were seriously injured on Jan 6? 1 person, Ashli Babbit (unarmed woman) who was shamelessly murdered by a capitol police goon. There were no other deaths or serious injuries. Now compare that to blm. Math never lies, it just is. You don't have to be a "fan" of the Jan 6 protests to quickly.see this was just theater, i.e. police/fib encouraged/facilitated trespassing.
642   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 10:06pm  

mell says


staged

Staged? You think the images/videos were staged? they were broadcast live... how could it be staged?

mell says


how many were seriously injured on Jan 6?

114 officers reported injuries resulting from the incident, though I do not know the severity of each:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-22-104829.pdf

mell says


Ashli Babbit (unarmed woman) who was shamelessly murdered by a capitol police goon

She was trying to climb through a barricaded door onto the other side which was defended by armed officers, through a window broken by the crowds, I've seen that video. sad she died, but what the hell was she thinking? What the hell were any of them thinking?

mell says


police goon

Really? when they shoot your tribe suddenly the cop is a goon and its fine to riot?

Total hypocrisy. Everyone here is on crazy pills!!!
643   mell   2022 Nov 30, 10:20pm  

DeficitHawk says


mell says


staged

Staged? You think the images/videos were staged? they were broadcast live... how could it be staged?

mell says


how many were seriously injured on Jan 6?

114 officers reported injuries resulting from the incident, though I do not know the severity of each:
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-22-104829.pdf

mell says


Ashli Babbit (unarmed woman) who was shamelessly murdered by a capitol police goon

She was trying to climb through a barricaded door onto the other side which was defended by armed officers, through a window broken by the crowds, I've seen that video. s...


I explained it to you. The event was staged (encouraging trespassing and other crimes through fib informants/glowies such as ray epps) to get a couple of pictures of tresspassers that look remotely like a riot, but even those fail. In fact you can hardly distinguish those from the Chinese currently protesting their oppressive government. Compare pushing against government/police barricades to blm, were private businesses, cars and buildings were looted, burned and plenty of people murdered. And comparing an unarmed protesting woman to a strong, armed, mass-criminal, repeat offending violent drug addled thug is just disingenuous. They even tried to exploit the unrelated death of an officer days after to connect to Jan 6 because there were zero moderate to severe injuries besides those that happen as part of daily policec work.
644   PeopleUnited   2022 Nov 30, 10:24pm  

DeficitHawk says

Individual black males are MORE likely to be victims of police shootings than individual white males.

Are individual white males less likely to be involved in/associates/colleagues with criminals or more
likely to be criminals than individual black males?
645   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 10:25pm  

mell says

Compare pushing against government barricades to blm

I am not making this comparison. I am not defending violent protests from either side. I am not defending vandalism, arson, or any of the other violence or property damage stuff that happened in BLM protests. I am totally opposed to it and think its wrong.

That's my point... You are criticizing violent behavior of one side but defending violent behavior of the other. Thats why you are being hypocritical.

I am NOT doing that.
646   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 10:29pm  

PeopleUnited says


Are individual white males less likely to be involved in/associates/colleagues with criminals or more
likely to be criminals than individual black males?

I dont know about associates/colleagues, but for violent crimes committed, yes, I linked the FBI crime rates by race above. My overall take is that officer involved shootings are roughly proportional to the rate of police encounters with individuals involved in violent crime.

This does NOT agree with the left's position that cops are racist and prefer to shoot black people.

Its closer to saying cops do NOT have a preference for which race they shoot, but a certain fraction of interactions with individuals involved in violent crime result in an officer involved shooting regardless of race.
647   mell   2022 Nov 30, 10:35pm  

DeficitHawk says

mell says


Compare pushing against government barricades to blm

I am not making this comparison. I am not defending violent protests from either side. I am not defending vandalism, arson, or any of the other violence or property damage stuff that happened in BLM protests. I am totally opposed to it and think its wrong.

That's my point... You are criticizing violent behavior of one side but defending violent behavior of the other. Thats why you are being hypocritical.

I am NOT doing that.

I am not defending trespassing, but nothing more happened. No justification to murder somebody who poses no threat to police. Even Floyd, who posed a threat to police and everyone else, was treated better. If Chauvin had shot Floyd point blank at the stop like the goon did to Babbit, then he would have deserved a trial and prison time. How about arresting her?
648   richwicks   2022 Nov 30, 10:42pm  

DeficitHawk says


You can look for pictures of BLM protests that are peaceful, and you can look for ones that are violent, and you will find both.


I saw BLM protests in both San Jose and Oakland, NEITHER were peaceful.

Show me one that was. Name it. I will look it up, and I won't restrict myself to Google, Facebook, or Twitter, which would just delete it.

DeficitHawk says


I think you are trying to use cherry picking to support a mantra of "only the left is violent"


Show us an example of when the right has been violent. Name some place where they started fires and looted stores - name the protest.

Media simply ignores the riots for the most part. I've seen it first hand, and they ignore BLM and Antifa violence, because, the government fully supports Antifa and BLM.

More than 40 people were MURDERED in BLM and Antifa protests - name one person that was prosecuted.
649   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 10:43pm  

mell says


I am not defending trespassing, but nothing more happened


IF you insist on wearing patnet conformity blinders, i can not help you. I showed you the pictures. I linked the report of 114 injured officers. If you do not think there was any violence, I just dont think you are being honest with yourself.

Do you think they were giving this guy a back massage? Is that why he is lying on the ground?

650   PeopleUnited   2022 Nov 30, 10:44pm  

DeficitHawk says


PeopleUnited says


Are individual white males less likely to be involved in/associates/colleagues with criminals or more
likely to be criminals than individual black males?

I dont know about associates/colleagues, but for violent crimes committed, yes, I linked the FBI crime rates by race above. My overall take is that officer involved shootings are roughly proportional to the rate of police encounters with individuals involved in violent crime.

This does NOT agree with the left's position that cops are racist and prefer to shoot black people.

Its closer to saying cops do NOT have a preference for which race they shoot, but a certain fraction of interactions with individuals involved in violent crime result in an officer involved shooting regardless of race.



Well said, however I think any type of crime increases an individuals risk of exposure to increased interaction with police. And police are more likely to shoot you when you are interacting with them, and if they believe you are a criminal (including non violent crimes like driving while high etc....) so the moral of the story is do less crime, get shot less often by police. Also, running from police, trying to avoid or resist arrest, those also increase your risk of being shot by police. So don’t do that either. And avoid drugs in general, police view drug users and sellers as criminals, and potentially dangerous.
651   richwicks   2022 Nov 30, 10:48pm  

DeficitHawk says


mell says


staged

Staged? You think the images/videos were staged? they were broadcast live... how could it be staged?



Here's how:


original link

That's Ray Epps.

HE hasn't been arrested, because he's part of the FIB - he's an agent provocateur. HIS job was to incite violence and lawlessness. His job was to entrap people. He's an unconvicted felon.
652   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 10:57pm  

PeopleUnited says


And police are more likely to shoot you when you are interacting with them, and if they believe you are a criminal (including non violent crimes like driving while high etc....)

Yeah. I have no data on how often shootings happen durring arrests for violent crime vs. non violent crimes.

I do make an ASSUMPTION that officers feel more threat to themselves if they think they are dealing with a violent person, and are more likely to draw their weapon and defend themselves if they feel threatened. That assumption is purely based on how I think I would feel, not data.

There are also a lot of officer involved shootings that start out with a mental health crisis where the officer is there because the person is acting out and then the situation escalates. Not all officer involved shootings involve a rational criminal resisting arrest.
653   PeopleUnited   2022 Nov 30, 11:03pm  

DeficitHawk says


mell says


Compare pushing against government barricades to blm

I am not making this comparison. I am not defending violent protests from either side. I am not defending vandalism, arson, or any of the other violence or property damage stuff that happened in BLM protests. I am totally opposed to it and think its wrong.

That's my point... You are criticizing violent behavior of one side but defending violent behavior of the other. Thats why you are being hypocritical.

I am NOT doing that.



Here’s the thing. Left wing politicians in general, as well as mainstream media, by and large give a HUGE pass if not straight up praise for the anti police riots that caused millions of dollars in damage, closed businesses, loss of life and other injuries. The left in general is OK with that. But a small number of unarmed people fought with police on January 6th and it is called an insurrectio by the leftists in media and government. It is not equal application of the law or logic. Many of the people who were violent in those two different types of protests believed their violence was justified. But the media/leftists seem to believe that only the anti police rioters were justified. So the people who are sympathetic to the stop the steal movement view that as hypocrisy. Not you personally, but leftists in general seem hypocritical, especially people like Maxine Waters who continued to urge violence with her rhetoric. Trump for his part was much more subdued in rallying his supporters to stop the steal.

Also there are many J6ers who are still in jail who were Not violent. What is their crime?
654   PeopleUnited   2022 Nov 30, 11:06pm  

DeficitHawk says

PeopleUnited says



And police are more likely to shoot you when you are interacting with them, and if they believe you are a criminal (including non violent crimes like driving while high etc....)

Yeah. I have no data on how often shootings happen durring arrests for violent crime vs. non violent crimes.

I do make an ASSUMPTION that officers feel more threat to themselves if they think they are dealing with a violent person, and are more likely to draw their weapon and defend themselves if they feel threatened. That assumption is purely based on how I think I would feel, not data.

There are also a lot of officer involved shootings that start out with a mental health crisis where the officer is there because the person is acting out and then the situation escalates. Not all officer involved shootings involve a rational criminal resisting arrest.


Well said, I would just add drug use/intoxication to the list of things that increase the risk of violence on you from a police officer.
655   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 30, 11:17pm  

PeopleUnited says


I would just add drug use/intoxication t

Agree.

PeopleUnited says


Many of the people who were violent in those two different types of protests believed their violence was justified. But the media/leftists seem to believe that only the anti police rioters were justified.

Yes I see this too. Although I called out patrick above for cherry picking the images he posted, the captions in those images show what you are saying. Left side media DOES give a pass to violence and bad actions by the left. Right side media does the same for the right.

PeopleUnited says


it is called an insurrectio by the leftists

The reason it is called an insurrection is not because of the scale of the protest, or the number of injuries etc... its because of the objective. The objective of many of the people who were there (and in my opinion the objective of Trump) was to halt and undermine the election process and enable Trump to be declared president. That IS insurrection. It is literally violent overthrow of the duly elected government.

"Hang Mike Pence" is sort of the main givaway. The reason people were chanting that is because they wanted to prevent him from allowing the election results to be certified. If they had gotten their hands on him, they might have actually done it.
656   richwicks   2022 Nov 30, 11:26pm  


DeficitHawk says



PeopleUnited says


Many of the people who were violent in those two different types of protests believed their violence was justified. But the media/leftists seem to believe that only the anti police rioters were justified.

Yes I see this too. Although I called out patrick above for cherry picking the images he posted, the captions in those images show what you are saying. Left side media DOES give a pass to violence and bad actions by the left. Right side media does the same for the right.


Show us, any time, where "the right" burned down city blocks, or looted stores. The "left" even burned down a police station in Minneapolis:

https://nypost.com/2021/05/30/its-been-a-year-of-antifa-and-unchecked-anarchy-devine/

3rd precinct.

Let's see who is cherry picking? I believe it's you, @DeficitHawk
657   PeopleUnited   2022 Dec 1, 12:21am  

DeficitHawk says


The objective of many of the people who were there (and in my opinion the objective of Trump)


That is your opinion, however that does not make it a fact. My opinion is that the people who showed up for the rally that day were there to show their support for the person they voted for, and to ask Congress to “see them” (if you catch the meaning like in Avatar) and address their concerns for election irregularities because they believe that there was an attempt to fake (ultimately successful due to lack of enforcement in key swing districts and states) who the duly elected president really is. In other words from a J6er perspective when the legitimate votes are counted (and illegitimate votes are not) the winner was the incumbent who received more votes than any incumbent president in American history. Add to that the fact that there was unprecedented negative media coverage of Trump for the 4 previous years, Biden “campaigned” from his basement
Iike he knew the fix was in from the beginning, and the FBI even colluded with media, including social media to spread misinformation and suppress the Hunter Biden laptop bombshell right before the election, thereby depriving voters of vital information about the Biden crime family. So to a J6er the government failed to follow the law and the media failed to report the facts, showing unprecedented bias against a clearly very popular president by the number of votes cast for him.

And again I ask, why are the nonviolent J6ers still in jail? What is their crime?
658   Patrick   2022 Dec 1, 3:03am  

@DeficitHawk I think you've thoroughly discredited yourself as an argument partner by:

- claiming that being fired for refusing the death jab is not being forced to take it
- claiming that Trump was going to install himself as "emperor" with less than zero evidence, while Trump was telling people to be peaceful (see his Tweet)
- claiming that hundreds of violent BLM riots are somehow unimportant
- buying into the see-through lie that unarmed people being led into the Capitol by Ray Epps is somehow the crime of the century

Probably other stuff too, but you really ought to be embarrassed by directly contradicting reality over and over. Others can argue with you, but if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 = 4, there's not much point.
659   Onvacation   2022 Dec 1, 5:50am  

DeficitHawk says


Individual black males are MORE likely to be victims of police shootings than individual white males.

Do the crime...
660   Onvacation   2022 Dec 1, 6:03am  

Patrick says


Others can argue with you, but if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 = 4, there's not much point.

there's not much point.

But It's fun.

Do you suppose he is willfully ignorant, propagandized, or straight up lying?
661   DeficitHawk   2022 Dec 1, 6:59am  

Patrick says


I think you've thoroughly discredited yourself as an argument partner by:

OK, I'll respond.
Patrick says


claiming that being fired for refusing the death jab is not being forced to take it

To be clear, I've said I dont support mandates, and I dont think storm troopers were forcing people to get them against their will, separate from as a condition of entry to certain places. I Do think it is within the discretion of school officials and employers to set conditions of entry. Though most schools and employers I encountered all had some sort of opt out. I Do think that if a shool sets a vax requirement and you are anti vax, you will have to burdent the inconvenience of home school or finding another school/job, etc.

Patrick says


claiming that Trump was going to install himself as "emperor" with less than zero evidence, while Trump was telling people to be peaceful (see his Tweet)

Patrick says


buying into the see-through lie that unarmed people being led into the Capitol by Ray Epps is somehow the crime of the century

These two are the same topic... Yes, I think Trump wanted to be president again even though he was not elected. He used legal challenges unsuccessfully, and promoted lies and conspiracy theories to advance this cause. I do not have any evidence what he was thinking during the riot, but I believe part of him hoped for a successful intervention which would make him president again, which is why he was slow to act to get people to stop.

Patrick says


claiming that hundreds of violent BLM riots are somehow unimportant

I did not say this. and I dont think it. Actually I think the BLM riots were very disruptive and destructive. Beyond the damage, they also lead to bad policy decisions on police force funding and have (in my town) impaired police recruiting which is a problem. What I HAVE said is that it is hypocritical to criticize only violent behavior on the left, and characterize the Jan 6 riot as chummy friendly folks shaking hands with the police.
Patrick says


Others can argue with you,

Well, I guess this is the end of the road for our discussion then. I will remind you that it was YOU who posted the classified add for someone who would come here and debate with you. I have done it in good faith. I cant help it if you dont want to hear what I say.

Im sad for what this site has become, nothing more than an echo chamber for like minded people who wont even discuss with people who have different opinions.
662   WookieMan   2022 Dec 1, 7:13am  

DeficitHawk says

Im sad for what this site has become, nothing more than an echo chamber for like minded people who wont even discuss with people who have different opinions.

This is where you're not paying attention dude. Everyone here has gotten after each other in some way, shape or form at some point. This place is far from an echo chamber. This isn't some right wing echo chamber you're making it out to be. Plenty of us here have bashed Trump. I'm still pissed about how he handled Covid. He is the guy that rushed the vaccine. Didn't fire Fauci who has a track record of fuck ups.

There is no nuance with the left. They hear one thing they don't agree with and everything else said by that person is wrong or bad. There are plenty of discussions occurring on Patnet where there's major disagreement. Ukraine v Russia. Covid. Hell I get in disagreements with BACAH over travel. Abortion. Tons of topics. This is one of the more civil forums I've been a part of. And it's definitely not an echo chamber.
663   Onvacation   2022 Dec 1, 8:09am  

Dan was more fun and less disingenuous.

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