patrick.net

Any predictions for the 2023 spring market?

In Santa Cruz, things are in an intermediate stage. Houses coming on the market at seller demand excess prices, not selling, inventory increasing and occasional break throughs of price drops for those who actually want or need to sell. They aren't always stating price reductions.

One house we walk by that has been on market for a while now had hundreds of thousands drop, but never stated it on the listing. Irrational price and equity fantasy exuberance seems to be slowly chipping away. It'll be interesting to see how things sort out by Feb. 2023.

GNL says

Any predictions for the 2023 spring market?

usually goes up in spring.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

GNL says

Any predictions for the 2023 spring market?

usually goes up in spring.

I will assume that you are referring to the month's supply for next spring...

https://sfstandard.com/business/empty-offices-are-dragging-down-san-francisco-home-prices/

ad says

A lot of owners stopped paying and refused to move out of the homes.

American people are just too nice. They should say f u to the whole real estate+bankers cartel every fucking day. Let the fuckers do what they want.

For anyone who thinks it’s not possible, this 19 year old kid is doing it in his Midwest market in the current market conditions. He’s inspired by people, who have been there, done that, and took action. His goal is 250 units. 19 years old and bought a 4-plex.

@Eman

Did you start out like this? If so, how did you manage rent collection and maintenance?

Eman says

For anyone who thinks it’s not possible, this 19 year old kid is doing it in his Midwest market in the current market conditions. He’s inspired by people, who have been there, done that, and took action. His goal is 250 units. 19 years old and bought a 4-plex.

Slum lord and lipstick on a pig. I feel for the people that end up renting those units. Gotta learn somehow I guess.

Those decks are half rotted as well. No pavement for parking? That for sure is ghetto special. I hope he doesn't hit his goal because that's 250 miserable tenants with what I'm looking at. Just being honest

This is how they corrupt the young'uns. Free money for exploiting your fellow (to be honest, a mouth-breathing section-8 renter) human. Just like cops who only see the worst of humanity, they eventually see their "customers" as subhuman trash

"Through a combination of bank and private debt." Let me translate - "with mom and dad giving me money for the down payment and then cosigning the mortgage."

stereotomy says

This is how they corrupt the young'uns. Free money for exploiting your fellow (to be honest, a mouth-breathing section-8 renter) human. Just like cops who only see the worst of humanity, they eventually see their "customers" as subhuman trash

We never had an issue with section 8 tenants. I think that's a huge misnomer about them. They're on the streets if they don't keep their voucher. Some of the best tenants we had. On their best behavior. We had to keep the units ABOVE building code for Section 8 versus market rate tenants, so not slum lords. We weren't in NIMBY land though. They're the ones that bitch about section 8 the most and have no clue about it.

WookieMan says

We never had an issue with section 8 tenants. I think that's a huge misnomer about them. They're on the streets if they don't keep their voucher. Some of the best tenants we had. On their best behavior.

Around here and in Oklahoma, I could tell the Section 8 houses in a neighborhood by the unkempt lawns, broken tricycles lying about, etc. When I had rental property in VA, I was approached several times to do Section 8. I refused, since my rentals were all single-family homes in nice workers/jr management type areas. I did not want to insert a welfare household next door to hard working people paying off a mortgage.

How about a strategy of buying enough rentals in a nice neighborhood and rent to section 8. Then once you've pulled the values down enough, buy a shit more houses and then end all section 8 rentals and bring the neighborhood values back?

GNL says

Eman

Did you start out like this? If so, how did you manage rent collection and maintenance?

No, I started out buying REO’s, but got wise quickly and learned how to buy properties at the courthouse steps for pennies on the dollar. Then rehab, rent it out, refinance, rinse and repeat. My dad is a GC so it’s a walk in the park.

One of Patneters, with an open-mind, joined me on this venture, and we bought 6 properties together. All financed under his name. I didn’t have a job so bank wouldn’t lend to me. They’ve gained over $2M in equity and cash-flowed over $4k/month, not including principal pay down, etc… Each of us invested $150k in these 6 properties. He didn’t want to stick around to refinance and get the cash out of these properties. Retired at 40 and moved to Brazil with a young Brazilian wife. Patrick, mell and a few other Patneters know and met him in person.

When he retired in 2013 and moved to Brazil, I was approached by a smart and wealthy individual who sold his startup company and has retired since 2000 at the age of 30. He was introduced to me through an acquaintance. I showed him what I did. He said it’s not “scalable” and wanted something that can scale. That was when we got into apartment investing. He chose the San Jose State University market as it’s “recession proof”. We also explored the Fresno State University and Easy Bay University markets, but decided to stay “local” and expand in this market. With his net worth, financing was a walk in the park as banks lend money to people who don’t need money. The rest is history.

HeadSet says

"Through a combination of bank and private debt." Let me translate - "with mom and dad giving me money for the down payment and then cosigning the mortgage."

I don’t see anything wrong with this. Parents would love to help their kids out when they’re starting out….at least in my culture. I made this offer to all nieces and nephews on both sides of the family. Come to us if they ever need money for their ideas.

Eman says

HeadSet says

"Through a combination of bank and private debt." Let me translate - "with mom and dad giving me money for the down payment and then cosigning the mortgage."

I don’t see anything wrong with this. Parents would love to help their kids out when they’re starting out….at least in my culture. I made this offer to all nieces and nephews on both sides of the family. Come to us if they ever need money for their ideas.

That ain't the point, spread your silver spoons all you like. Just do not have the kids claiming they are self-made individuals and investment geniuses.

HeadSet says

Eman says

HeadSet says

"Through a combination of bank and private debt." Let me translate - "with mom and dad giving me money for the down payment and then cosigning the mortgage."

I don’t see anything wrong with this. Parents would love to help their kids out when they’re starting out….at least in my culture. I made this offer to all nieces and nephews on both sides of the family. Come to us if they ever need money for their ideas.

That ain't the point, spread your silver spoons all you like. Just do not have the kids claiming they are self-made individuals and investment geniuses.

I guess we don’t share the same point of view. If a kid is unmotivated, he’ll burn all of the money his parents give to him or his inheritance.

To get started, he can either borrow money from an investor for a down payment, who will likely want a big cut of the equity, and borrow a hard money loan with high interest rate and pay points. Borrowing from acquaintances, or parents, provides a little more buffer and some safety net. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

At the end of the day, we don’t know how he financed the deal. It was all an assumption. I’d rather give the kid the benefits of the doubt than the naysayers.

Got to have a positive attitude. That + hard work can conquer any goal.

Why Blackstone's $69B Property Fund Is Signaling Pain Ahead For Real Estate

https://www.fa-mag.com/news/why-blackstone-s--69b-property-fund-is-signaling-pain-ahead-for-real-estate-70916.html

DD214 says

Why Blackstone's $69B Property Fund Is Signaling Pain Ahead For Real Estate

Blackstone is at $82 and is down 42% from its all time and 52 week high. Looks like it has more room to drop to early 2020 levels which is around $62 a share.

.

ad says

Blackstone is at $82 and is down 42% from its all time and 52 week high.

Is that all? Sheesh.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Blackstone is at $82 and is down 42% from its all time and 52 week high.

Is that all? Sheesh.

I checked MSN Finance, and Wall Street analysts forecast $100 in 12 months for Blackstone. Analysts hype the price of stocks like Blackstone.

I would not be surprised if Blackstone reaches $60 (i.e., early 2020 price levels) which would mean the stock drops 58% from its all time high and 52 week high.

.

Eman says

My dad is a GC so it’s a walk in the park.

Don't let out any trade secrets! Making more sense now. So, I'm assuming you're partnering with him on the flips.

ad says

I checked MSN Finance, and Wall Street analysts forecast $100 in 12 months for Blackstone. Analysts hype the price of stocks like Blackstone.

I would not be surprised if Blackstone reaches $60 (i.e., early 2020 price levels) which would mean the stock drops 58% from its all time high and 52 week high.

Hmmm. You may be right about the $60.

Considering that the prices (values?) of stuff are set in the marketplace, I wonder in a world with choices who'd pay $60 or even one dollar to invest in something that limits redemptions.

It's not like they're the only real estate hedge fund in the world.

EBGuy says

Eman says

My dad is a GC so it’s a walk in the park.

Don't let out any trade secrets! Making more sense now. So, I'm assuming you're partnering with him on the flips.

@EBGuy, actually no. I have a flip partner. A young 31-year old hustler. He handles all the deal sourcing and rehabs. I’m mainly an equity investor. I only get involved in the initial design and relayout of the flip. Then I have the final say on accepting the offers. I think he owns 12 rentals now, all by himself. They’re all in the East Bay.

I also have a multifamily partner where we handle a lot of our repairs and maintenance stuff. We have a full-time handyman who handles all the small stuff. For big rehabs, we use his GC. I don’t want to get my family involved in these things.

@EBGuy, my dad did help to rehab 3 out of 6 units I co-own with pkennedy at cost. The other 3, pkennedy and I rehabbed ourselves. My dad rehabbed all my personal units.

What I’ve learned is that once a unit is fully rehabbed, it’s less hassle and the turnover time is much quicker. I send in my handyman to handle the cleaning, paint touch-ups, minor repairs and swap out new door lock, and voila, they’re done within 2-4 days.

@EBGuy and @Patrick,

pkennedy will be in town next week for a few days, 12/12 - 12/15. Let us know if you guys want to meet up on 12/13 or 12/14. I’m unemployed so my schedule is flexible.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/homebuyers-underwater-mortgage-203707947.html

270,000 homebuyers who bought in 2022 are underwater on their mortgage

zzyzzx says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/homebuyers-underwater-mortgage-203707947.html

270,000 homebuyers who bought in 2022 are underwater on their mortgage

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2022/12/07/housing-market-forecast-2023.html

Here's what economists are predicting for the US housing market in 2023

Redfin Corp. this week predicted home prices will fall for the first time since 2011 — but at a modest 4% nationally. Zillow Group Inc. is anticipating home prices to remain flat nationally next year, while Realtor.com has among the more positive predictions, with home prices appreciating 5.4% across the U.S. in 2023.

Fannie Mae is predicting total existing home sales will be 3.9 million in 2023 and prices will fall 1.5%. Meanwhile, Capital Economics is predicting U.S. home prices will fall 8% by mid-2023 and Wells Fargo & Co. (NYSE: WFC) is forecasting a 5.5% decline in home prices.

zzyzzx says

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2022/12/07/housing-market-forecast-2023.html

Here's what economists are predicting for the US housing market in 2023

Redfin Corp. this week predicted home prices will fall for the first time since 2011 — but at a modest 4% nationally. Zillow Group Inc. is anticipating home prices to remain flat nationally next year, while Realtor.com has among the more positive predictions, with home prices appreciating 5.4% across the U.S. in 2023.

Fannie Mae is predicting total existing home sales will be 3.9 million in 2023 and prices will fall 1.5%. Meanwhile, Capital Economics is predicting U.S. home prices will fall 8% by mid-2023 and Wells Fargo & Co. (NYSE: WFC) is forecasting a 5.5% decline in home prices.

Historically speaking, which one of these prognosticators has been more correct?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mortgage-qualifying-rate-canada-may-184048144.html

Mortgage-Qualifying Rate in Canada May Top 8% After Latest Central Bank Hike

https://www.reddit.com/r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer/comments/zf7f8k/property_tax_explosion/

I got some jarring news from my mortgage company I was hoping to get insight on. My wife and I purchased our first ever home for $635,000.00. It had previously been owned for 30 years, so the taxes were capped around $3k despite a market value assessment of 350k. This was also our escrow amount.

The letter we received says that we now owe $10k in back escrow because the taxes increased to $11k a year and there were insufficient funds to cover it. Additionally, our monthly payment went up $700 because of the jump. This accounts for our homestead exemption.

My question is, is this right? It seems insane that homebuyers aren’t told their payments will jump exponentially year one. We were already at the top of our budget, and going from $3,500/month to nearly $5k for the next year is brutal. Once the escrow is paid back it will be around $4.1k, but that is still way more than we ever expected, although there was an expectation of some increase. I appreciate any insight that can be offered.

zzyzzx says

https://www.reddit.com/r/FirstTimeHomeBuyer/comments/zf7f8k/property_tax_explosion/

I got some jarring news from my mortgage company I was hoping to get insight on. My wife and I purchased our first ever home for $635,000.00. It had previously been owned for 30 years, so the taxes were capped around $3k despite a market value assessment of 350k. This was also our escrow amount.

The letter we received says that we now owe $10k in back escrow because the taxes increased to $11k a year and there were insufficient funds to cover it. Additionally, our monthly payment went up $700 because of the jump. This accounts for our homestead exemption.

My question is, is this right? It seems insane that homebuyers aren’t told their payments will jump exponentially year one. We were already at the top of our budget, and going from $3...

If they go equity negative...jingle mail all the way.