patrick.net

The life expectency then was around 50. So he was about middle-aged.

Yes, that is pretty amazing. Question: how does one chisel a marble statue to be so smooth? Is that even possible? I'm supposed to believe that the very tip of her hair wouldn't have broken off while using a hammer and chisel? Are there any modern day artists doing this same type of art using the same tools as they did a thousand years ago?

Michaelangelo didn't have any sprayer and made the paints himself.

I think marble is pretty soft. You can scrape and polish after you chisel.

Patrick says

I think marble is pretty soft. You can scrape and polish after you chisel.

Marble is not soft. Soapstone is soft. I know from experience in sculpting.

That was middle age back then.
Only well pampered aristocrats, who managed to live long without catching a serious chronic ailment lived beyond mid 30's.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

The life expectency then was around 50. So he was about middle-aged.

Actually, if you survived birth and early childhood your life expectancy was about the same as today.

The Dutch masters blow away any modern artist. I am amazed at their realism and ability to capture emotion.

https://twitter.com/Western_Trad/status/1616831477416697857?ref_src=patrick.net

Patrick says

The lighting too, really looks like you're looking into a hall before electric, where they depended on windows for light.

pudil says

Actually, if you survived birth and early childhood your life expectancy was about the same as today.

No. This is a myth cleaned from accounts of wealthy nobility, rather than actual graves, especially COMMON graves of the poor and rural peasants which are undercounted relative to the big Church donors where most of the counting was done. We can't fish a 1600s Basque Fisherman's body who died at 42 from a stroke from the seafloor of the Newfoundland banks hundreds of feet below the ocean surface, but we can inter a 1600s Spanish Nobleman, proud of his descendence from William the Shaggy, from the church St. Aloyius the Astonishing, who lived to 72 years old off his rack rents from the 3 villages as part of his patrimony. Or Praiselord Barebones from his rural Massachussetts back 20 since we long since lost it and it's covered by the Mass Turnpike.

This is also born out from the paleolithic to the iron age... from Andean Indians to Danish Vikings, the communal graves that aren't status segregated are biased towards early middle aged individuals and child bearing age females.

Men were considered old in the 40s and until the 1940s, if you had high blood pressure leading to the most common deaths, stroke and heart disease, there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it.

Also, death in childbirth and from infection generally was sky high. Infections of TEETH/mouth spreading to the brain was a top 10 cause of death.

There were far more male "Widows" and kids with step mothers due to the first mothers death than today. Women's health was easily broken, for even if she delivered a healthy baby, internal damage could easily get infected and lead to death afterwards, sometimes chronic infections eventually resulting in deaths months after child birth from infections that waxed and waned until they broke the exhausted body.

Part of pre-Industrial life was that "Men's work and war is their battlefield; the birthing bed is the woman's battlefield" idea.

The real truth is that sanitation, followed by ease of hygiene, clean water, and finally basic sulfa and penicillin based antibiotics and blood pressure meds, are 95% of the life expectancy increase. In fact, if you had to choose between trash collection & clean water versus modern pharma, you'd be better off picking the former to generate the maximal health outcomes.

Another secret is that early 20th Century slum clearing and sanitation did more against most diseases we vaccinate for than the vaxes did themselves. 80% of the drop in things like Measles occured during the massive sewer and indoor plumbing campaigns, before those vaccines were invented.

In 2016, Gazzaniga published her research on more than 2,000 ancient Roman skeletons, all working-class people who were buried in common graves. The average age of death was 30, and that wasn’t a mere statistical quirk: a high number of the skeletons were around that age. Many showed the effects of trauma from hard labour, as well as diseases we would associate with later ages, like arthritis.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20181002-how-long-did-ancient-people-live-life-span-versus-longevity

It's also seen in Anglo-Saxon graves of ordinary villagers from the Middle Ages. About 10% of the population lived to be over 60, the median man and woman died between 33 and 45.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319845926_Sex_and_the_elderly_Attitudes_to_long-lived_women_and_men_in_early_Anglo-Saxon_England

Arthritis and bone diseases are very common in ordinary people across the world in pre-modern times, shit diet. To believe the "It's all birthing and early child diseases" one would have to believe nutrition plays next to no role in lifespan.

Then there's using official records - non-existent during most of human history, and when it did - it calculated people rich enough to own land and pay taxes, or a fraction of the population, usually around 5-10% and 20% at best. Egyptian Paprii are used, since it lasts long, but again, it's already biased to people who aren't engaged in routine hard physical labor and with wealth because they are rich enough to pay land taxes.

"But tombstones" - most people in Europe and elsewhere were too poor to have tombstones as late as the 19th Century, Roman and Egyptian peasants were regularly buried in mass graves. Burial in a family or small grave was limited to 10-20% of the population.

Yeah it's clear that modern medicine has saved countless of lives and took a wrong turn maybe roughly about 50 years ago or so? If you had a sepsis and your body couldn't contain it you were fucked quickly before the age of penicillin

Patrick says

https://twitter.com/Western_Trad/status/1616831477416697857?ref_src=patrick.net

WOW! That sculpture is amazing!

mell says

Yeah it's clear that modern medicine has saved countless of lives and took a wrong turn maybe roughly about 50 years ago or so? If you had a sepsis and your body couldn't contain it you were fucked quickly before the age of penicillin

Yep. Sometimes all it took was cracking a tooth on a piece of bread that had a small little piece of stone from the quern in it... it got infected... and up to the brain...

AmericanKulak says

Sometimes all it took was cracking a tooth on a piece of bread that had a small little piece of stone from the quern in it... it got infected

This is what killed my dad in the end. He had progressively worse leukemia for about five years, then cracked a tooth on a little stone in a can of Campbell's Soup. My parents were going to complain about the rock, but he got sepsis, having basically no immune system left, went to the hospital and died in a few days. I was with him. Bad fever and I'm sure it was unpleasant, but he didn't complain.

They get nakeder and nakeder to get an edge over their female competition and bring out the pawing, clawing beast in men, upon which they disgrace men for their animal nature.

AmericanKulak says

Sometimes all it took was cracking a tooth on a piece of bread that had a small little piece of stone from the quern in it

The British surgeon John Hunter 1728 to 1793 (father of scientific medicine) noted that London records showed dental abscess to be the third most common cause of death for many years. It stimulated him to concentrate on oral surgery for a period of his career.

When the first dose of penicillin was painstakingly distilled, it was given to a man who had developed an infection from a rose thorn that went septic. The dose worked, but they didn't have enough of it in the trial run, so the infection started up again and killed him. It wasn't uncommon to see people in the last century into modern times who had scars on their faces from where dental abscesses grew large, burst, and left infectious tracts on their faces.

Patrick says

Yes, but notice the buxom ones have the figure emphasized and displayed.

Ceffer says

It wasn't uncommon to see people in the last century into modern times

Sadly, as late as the early 1900's it killed three of the most promising jazz musicians of their day. In the early 1920's, Lorin McMurray (1895-1922), one of the greatest saxophone players of the era, developed a nasal infection that spread to his brain and killed him in two weeks. I have both of his Gennett recordings, one made just a week before he died. Carlton Coon (1895-1932), half of the Coon-Sanders orchestra so popular with the college crowd and noted for his beautiful voice in duets with Joe Sanders, had a dental abscess that gave him much pain, but he enjoyed listening to the other bands after hours he numbed it with alcohol until it spread and killed him. Bing Crosby encouraged his jazz guitarist friend Eddie Lang (1903-1933) to have a tonsillectomy that should improve his singing voice. Instead it was botched and he died of blood poisoning. Bing never forgave himself for his advice.

Ceffer says

It wasn't uncommon to see people in the last century into modern times

Sadly, as late as the early 1900's it killed three of the most promising jazz musicians of their day. In the early 1920's, Lorin McMurray (1895-1922), one of the greatest saxophone players of the era, developed a nasal infection that spread to his brain and killed him in two weeks. I have both of his Gennett recordings, one made just a week before he died. Carlton Coon (1895-1932), half of the Coon-Sanders orchestra so popular with the college crowd and noted for his beautiful voice in duets with Joe Sanders, had a dental abscess that gave him much pain, but he enjoyed listening to the other bands after hours he numbed it with alcohol until it spread and killed him. Bing Crosby encouraged his jazz guitarist friend Eddie Lang (1903-1933) to have a tonsillectomy that should improve his singing voice. Instead it was botched and he died of blood poisoning. Bing never forgave himself for his advice.

Here's Coon's first record from the last session in 1932:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0u0HpNM6XE

NDrLoR says

Here's Coon's first record from the last session in 1932:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0u0HpNM6XE

Seems you are an audiophile along the lines of Robert Crumb, the underground cartoonist. He collects and plays the old jazz 78's from the day.

Antibiotics only came in beginning after WWII, they are relatively recent phenomena. They have enabled many elaborate surgical procedures that would otherwise have meant frequent death if they had been done in the past.

However, the bacteria with their relentless and very short reproductive cycles and forced evolutionary adaptations are defeating antibiotics, and we might return to some version of pre WWII infectious susceptablities.

AmericanKulak says

Another secret is that early 20th Century slum clearing and sanitation did more against most diseases we vaccinate for than the vaxes did themselves. 80% of the drop in things like Measles occured during the massive sewer and indoor plumbing campaigns, before those vaccines were invented.

This doesn't bode well for San Francisco and other progressive-run cities.

SunnyvaleCA says

This doesn't bode well for San Francisco and other progressive-run cities.

It seems they suppress the news about typhus outbreaks, and even the rare case of good old plague. Don't want any reality diseases competing with fake Covid's multi trillion dollar ad propaganda.

HeadSet says

Patrick says

Yes, but notice the buxom ones have the figure emphasized and displayed.

Yep, doesn't mean they aren't giving hand jobs and blowjobs behind the barn.

SunnyvaleCA says

AmericanKulak says

Another secret is that early 20th Century slum clearing and sanitation did more against most diseases we vaccinate for than the vaxes did themselves. 80% of the drop in things like Measles occured during the massive sewer and indoor plumbing campaigns, before those vaccines were invented.

This doesn't bode well for San Francisco and other progressive-run cities.

The recent rain storm has washed all the shit into the bay. Poor fishes.

RWSGFY says

The recent rain storm has washed all the shit into the bay.

Gavin Newsom is still around..

Patrick says

СССP 1928:



Blame Le Corbusier for all this shit.

https://babylonbee.com/news/londons-centuries-old-architectural-marvel-perfect-location-for-burger-king-billboard

A school principal in Tallahassee, Florida, has been fired following parental complaints about a lesson on Michelangelo’s marble masterpiece David (1501-04), which was deemed “pornographic” by one aggrieved parent.

Patrick says

One of the ugliest buildings in America. They have to paint it constantly to stop the red iron stains from Appearing as it bleeds through the concrete.


"Fungi from Yoggoth Earth Command Bunker"


What a contrast.

Eric Holder says

Blame Le Corbusier for all this shit.

Want to change minds? Include links and reasoning. I have no idea what you're talking about, but if you make it easy, I'll find out what you're talking about.

I'm not stupid, I'm just ignorant.

RWSGFY says

A school principal in Tallahassee, Florida, has been fired following parental complaints about a lesson on Michelangelo’s marble masterpiece David (1501-04), which was deemed “pornographic” by one aggrieved parent.

Who is the principle and what is the school?

I find this hard to believe in a time where tranny time story hour is the new rage. I could believe this in the 1980's but not now.

We fought against this shit, and won. Now we have to fight against perverts prancing around in front of 5 year olds. Never ending battle.

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/may-2023/

Behold, the new Richard Gilder Center for Science — an addition to New York’s American Museum of Natural History, designed by Jeanne Gang, the most-published architect on The Eyesore of the Month!

Here’s what you get when you ask computer aided design (CAD) to give you a “bat cave.” CAD is universal now in the architecture biz. This technology has aggravated the feedback loop between the human tendency to seek novelty and the bizarre-ness of every new building produced in our culture. Even before CAD arrived on the scene, novelty-seeking drove post-World War Two building design. That itself derived from the accelerated sense of “progress” induced by our turbo-charged cheap oil economy, which brought on dizzying technological innovation, another feedback loop. The net result was the buildings that represented human endeavor — especially, public buildings, museums, courthouses, libraries — had to look like nothing ever seen before. This programming also served to demolish people’s sense of history, of which the thinking classes were increasingly ashamed, especially after the fiasco of two world wars and Auschwitz.

What was wrong with this grand cavalcade of novelty-seeking, you might ask? It was creative… innovative… diverse! Well, yes. But it also tended to ignore the archetypal symbolic language that buildings need to project in order to inform people what each building means and what its role is in human endeavor. You could no longer distinguish a school from an insecticide factory. It also obliterated the anthropomorphic element in architecture that fitted buildings into a design ethos that reflected human form, in particular the “tripartite” configuration of top, middle, base (head, trunk, feet) which is the basis of many so-called classicisms.

Yet another consequence of perpetual novelty-seeking for the sake of “progress” is that buildings no longer relate to the other buildings around them. Each is a one-off, and so there is no continuity or unity in the urban pattern. The result is an unfortunate urban cacophony which only ends up expressing the disordered condition of our society.

Now you know.

Compare to, say:

Patrick says

Behold, the new Richard Gilder Center for Science

What it looks like when you are consumed by an amoeba.

Patrick says

Yet another consequence of perpetual novelty-seeking for the sake of “progress” is that buildings no longer relate to the other buildings around them. Each is a one-off, and so there is no continuity or unity in the urban pattern.

Seriously? I like those older neighborhoods where each house is distinctly different, as opposed to the newer subdivisions where each house is just a color scheme variation on the same 3 models throughout.