patrick.net

My own position is that as soon as the fetus can feel or think anything at all, it's killing a person. I don't know what that point is, but it's pretty early.

https://notthebee.com/article/npr-really-played-audio-of-an-abortion-on-the-air-and-it-is-absolutely-gut-wrenching-to-listen-to

As a single, selfish, thoughtless bachelor, I generally supported abortion.

I then got married and had three kids. I listened to each of their heartbeats between 6-8wks from conception. I watched their eyes and fingers develop within the first trimester. I was told that their first electrical brain activity could be detected within only 8wks.

With those experiences of watching life develop before my eyes, abortion would never be an option again unless I was ready to accept killing a baby, which I could never do.

WATCH: Antifa Tried to Block the Vienna March for Life...They Failed

https://rumble.com/v1sm8iw-final-titlethumbnaildescription.html


original link

https://notthebee.com/article/abortion-1-cause-of-death-worldwide-again

Abortion was the number one cause of human death worldwide in 2022, with an estimated 44 million dead in the past 12 months, nearly quadrupling the number of global deaths from infectious diseases.

There were roughly 44.42 million abortions in 2022, according to Worldometers, a widely cited organization that keeps a running tally through the year of major world statistics. It calculates abortion numbers based on the latest statistics published by the World Health Organization (WHO).

https://barsoom.substack.com/p/solving-the-abortion-equation

In exactly the same way, abortion could be disincentivized with, for instance, an escalating fine. As an illustrative example, we might adopt a rule that the woman seeking to terminate her pregnancy must pay a tax of n^2 dollars1, where n is the number of days from conception. On day 0 no fine would be levied, which seems appropriate to what is, realistically, about on the same level as shedding a skin cell. At the end of the first month, it would be about $900 – pricey enough to hurt, but doable for most people. By the end of the first trimester, which is the point at which the fetus starts to resemble a human, it would cost $8100, enough to dissuade most people but a price some would be willing to pay if they really didn’t want to have a kid with that guy. By the end of the second trimester – a point at which the fetus is well past ‘resembling’ a human – the procedure would incur a fine of $32,400. A partial birth abortion of a full-term baby would cost a cool $72,900, which unless you’re independently wealthy you will not want to pay.

The only real objection I can think of to such a system (beyond those that would be raised by the extremist positions on either side, who can tolerate no compromise) would be that it dehumanizes life by putting a price on it. This is, I suppose, true, but realistically we do this all the time, whether in terms of life insurance payouts or class-action lawsuits against corrupt pharmaceutical corporations. I don’t see any particular reason why abortion should be treated any differently.

“But wait,” I hear you saying, “Are you really suggesting that women be taxed for getting abortions?”

Why yes, I am implying that they should be financially responsible for their own moral choices.

“But what if she was raped!?”

Leaving aside that rape-induced pregnancy and consequent abortion is a vanishingly rare corner case, I’d be quite happy for the rapist, if convicted, to be on the hook for the cost, along with in jail for the rape.

Something like 65% of abortions are performed in the first 8 weeks, meaning a maximum fine of around $3200. If a woman is really serious about not having that baby, I think she’d be willing to pay that. In other words, for the vast majority of women, an escalating fine system would make very little difference to the availability of the procedure. This is the time window within which abortions are chemically induced, the drugs for which can cost several hundred dollars in any case. Thus, this system would essentially just result in a marginal increase in cost for most abortions, leaving availability unchanged, and keeping the feminists mostly happy.

Interesting idea, though beyond some point it's definitely killing a baby and should not be allowed for any price.

https://babylonbee.com/news/democrat-womens-caucus-wears-white-butcher-coats-in-support-of-abortion

zzyzzx says

All of them. I fucking hate dogs.

Just my opinion, but anyone that hate dogs is kinda fucked up

To be honest, while I agree that a baby right before birth is just as human as right after birth, I don't think that a mere fertilized egg is a human. I'd say it begins with brain function, which could be quite early, but not that early.

https://notthebee.com/article/minnesotas-senate-just-passed-a-bill-to-legalize-abortion-all-the-way-till-birth-by-just-one-vote

The Minnesota Senate just passed a bill to legalize abortion all the way till birth by just one vote

Wow, you can kill a full-term child in Minnesota now, just moments before it would be born.

264 month abortions for the hood rats in Minneapolis doesn't sound too bad. I dunno if the verbiage of the law would permit this or not.

Patrick says

https://notthebee.com/article/abortion-1-cause-of-death-worldwide-again

Abortion was the number one cause of human death worldwide in 2022, with an estimated 44 million dead in the past 12 months, nearly quadrupling the number of global deaths from infectious diseases.

There were roughly 44.42 million abortions in 2022, according to Worldometers, a widely cited organization that keeps a running tally through the year of major world statistics. It calculates abortion numbers based on the latest statistics published by the World Health Organization (WHO).

You'll also have the rich vs. poor political problem.

As a Catholic, I admit scientifically there’s an argument to be made that up to a certain point, there’s not much difference between a fetus and other primitive life forms we kill all the time.

But I don’t see how this can ever be a standard. @Patrick, why do you say ability to feel pain is when abortion should be banned? Even if this could be determined precisely (it can’t) this is arbitrary. I love a good steak, a cow has a more developed neural system then even a full term baby. I don’t think it’s wrong to kill cows.

The problem with abortion isn’t just the fact you are killing a human. It’s what it does to our whole culture. It takes every human’s inherent right to life and replaces it with a formula that takes how inconvenient another human is and divides it by how old ito determine if it’s okay to kill or not.

A culture that does this is going in the wrong direction.

Now, my ultimate goal is to end abortion entirely, but I don’t think you can just legislate it. You have to change people’s minds. I would support a 12 week abortion ban with proper exceptions for life of the mother, severe birth defect, all the corner case objections people bring up.

Then I would put a special tax on all abortion providers to fund crisis pregnancy centers and pro life advertising (similar model to anti smoking campaigns).

Finally, I would increase taxes on childless people over 30 and use that to increase the child tax credit. The reason being is that parents are raising the next generation of tax payers that will support the economy when we’re old. You can’t just brunch, sleep in, and play video games until you die and do nothing to contribute to the future of this country.

pudil says

As a Catholic, I admit scientifically there’s an argument to be made that up to a certain point, there’s not much difference between a fetus and other primitive life forms we kill all the time.

But I don’t see how this can ever be a standard. Patrick, why do you say ability to feel pain is when abortion should be banned? Even if this could be determined precisely (it can’t) this is arbitrary. I love a good steak, a cow has a more developed neural system then even a full term baby. I don’t think it’s wrong to kill cows.

The problem with abortion isn’t just the fact you are killing a human. It’s what it does to our whole culture. It takes every human’s inherent right to life and replaces it with a formula that takes how inconvenient another human is and divides it by how old ito determine if it’s okay to kill or not.

A culture that does this is going in the wrong direction.

Now, my ultimate goal is to end abortion entirely, but I don’t think y...

Yep. Also you can't just legislate against 50% of the population, they will vote you out. That's why the 12 week (first trimester) compromise is very popular around the world. It gives every womyn enough time to find out they are pregnant and safely end their pregnancy if they absolutely must, without fear of being prosecuted. After that only exceptions such as risk of loss of life for the mother or severe disability of the child. As a catholic as well (and rational male) I am against all abortion, but as a man it's impossible to put yourself into a womyn's shoes, so 12 week I can support. It works well for the countries that have it.

Human meat isn’t much different than some animal meat especially pork and bear meat. But we gag when thinking about eating human flesh. Same reaction as when (most) people get to witness what actually happens to the baby when it’s aborted. Ripping off arms and legs from a living feeling baby before finally decapitating it and removing the pieces from its negligent mother’s graveyard of a womb is just horrifying.
Same same.

pudil says

Patrick, why do you say ability to feel pain is when abortion should be banned? Even if this could be determined precisely (it can’t) this is arbitrary. I love a good steak, a cow has a more developed neural system then even a full term baby. I don’t think it’s wrong to kill cows.

The problem with abortion isn’t just the fact you are killing a human. It’s what it does to our whole culture. It takes every human’s inherent right to life and replaces it with a formula that takes how inconvenient another human is and divides it by how old ito determine if it’s okay to kill or not.

The question for me is whether the fetus is human or not. I say a fertilized egg is not human yet. It's just a fertilized egg. At some point it becomes human, so the question is when. Maybe when it first has the ability to feel pain. I'm just guessing on that.

Certainly a baby about to be born is fully human and now Minnesota allows the murder of babies just because they are inside the mother rather than outside, which is insane.

I do eat beef, but I feel bad for any excess suffering that causes the cow or steer. I think it's possible to raise animals so that they have a reasonably good life and a mostly painless death. Not that we do that, but we should try to.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorld/status/1624825450387357696?ref_src=patrick.net

Soyjack is real.

Many years ago, I was working for government and, to make a long story short, was teamed up with a young attorney. Our work time together spanned a time of several months. One day, as we were having lunch, this young attorney asked me, with an overt smirk of confidense on his face, what my opinion was on the issue of abortion.

Instead of providing what he expected, i.e., a long winded explanation, I merely asked him this; 'if your mother had an abortion when she was pregnant with you, would we be having this discussion?' The self-confident smirk of my friend disappeared and a look of confusion crossed his face. He searched for an answer but couldn't provide one, illustrating that he realized that abortion does in fact end a human life.

Personalizing this issue removes it from the abstract. I've repeated this any number of times and it always leaves the pro-abortionists dumbfounded.

RayAmerica says

overt smirk of confidense on his face,

confidense? Was that an intentional word play?

If you really want to make somebody think twice about their position on abortion, and you oppose abortion - just say something along the lines "I strongly believe that liberals should always get abortions, but I don't think conservatives should - the problem will then be fixed in just one generation".

BTW, I'm anti-abortion, but I'm also pro-choice. That's not a conflict. Being against abortion doesn't mean that I oppose somebody's ability to make their own decision about what to do with an unwanted pregnancy and sometimes, pregnancies SHOULD be terminated.

But then again, I don't think I have any right to impose my particular beliefs about this subject on anybody.

HeadSet says

RayAmerica says

overt smirk of confidense on his face,

confidense? Was that an intentional word play?

I wish I could say that it was intentional, because that would make me look more clever than I am.

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/02/24/massachusetts-democrat-the-disabled-cost-too-much-to-let-them-be-born-n532974

A local Democrat official in Massachusetts is facing calls to step down after complaining about the cost of special education for children with disabilities who are not aborted.

Michael Hugo, the chair of the Framingham Democratic Committee, made the remarks during a city council meeting when discussing a proclamation about access to abortion and crisis pregnancy centers in the city. He said crisis pregnancy centers could misdiagnose a defect in a baby in the womb, leading to them being born and becoming a strain on a school budget. He issued a public apology after 10 days of backlash from members of his own party and parents of special needs children.

https://notthebee.com/article/are-we-the-baddies-pro-choicers-begin-turning-on-the-pro-aborts

“Are we the baddies?” Pro-choicers begin turning on the pro-aborts

You don't have to look too hard or search too long to find articles and commentaries that have started observing the civil war brewing within the acronym legion. A growing group of L's, G's, and even B's have had it with the T's, Q's, and all the rest.

Because of their antics, yes, but also because trans ideology undermines the entire identity of lesbians, gays, and bisexuals. You can't be gay or lesbian or bisexual if there is no fixed gender binary of male/female, after all.

But what you won't find in plentiful supply are articles and commentaries detailing what appears to be an exploitable fissure that has developed within the legal abortion community. ...

Katie McHugh, MD (she/her)
@KtMcH
Happy Friday! #Abortion care is still legal in Indiana. We’re doing everything we can to keep it that way.

#AbortionIsHealthcare - as well as a community priority, a family value, and a normal part of life!

Abortion is moral, common, and it isn’t going away.

Neither are we. ❤️





It reminds me of the viral GIF from the British sketch show The Mitchell and Webb Look, where two World War II-era German soldiers have an uncomfortable epiphany and ask, "Are we the baddies?"

For those who would deny the most fundamental human right to the most vulnerable and innocent humans, all for the sake of convenience… yes, you are. But it's never too late to defect.

https://www.thecollegefix.com/abortion-doula-slated-to-speak-at-notre-dame/

Notre Dame alumni leader criticizes pro-abortion event

The gender studies department at the University of Notre Dame, a Catholic University, plans to host an “abortion doula” on March 20.

The speaker is part of a series called “Reproductive Justice: Scholarship for Solidarity and Social Change.”

This specific event is titled “Trans Care + Abortion Care: Intersections and Questions,” and includes the abortion activist, Ash Williams, a self-proclaimed “Abortion Doula,” as a speaker. ...

The Catechism, which lists the teachings of the Catholic Church, explains how the abortion is viewed as a “moral evil.”

“Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion,” the Catechism states. “This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.”

The leader of an alumni group that seeks to ensure Notre Dame maintains its Catholic identity criticized the event and series in emailed comments to The Fix.

I attended Notre Dame freshman and sophomore years. I wish it had remained fanatically Catholic, which it unapologetically was at the time. When my parents dropped me off and met the priest in charge of my dorm, Father Micelli, he told them: "I would rather see Notre Dame burn to the ground than lose its Catholic character." I was shocked at the time, but I agree with him now, and I'm not even much of a Catholic.

https://notthebee.com/article/vox-comes-out-against-aborting-embryos-that-can-feel-painbut-only-chicken-embryos-

https://notthebee.com/article/former-abortion-doctor-says-he-would-hear-squeaking-noises-from-born-alive-babies-and-his-first-instinct-was-to-suffocate-them-so-the-mom-wouldnt-suffer

Former abortion doctor says he would hear squeaking noises from born alive babies and his first instinct was to suffocate them so the mom wouldn't suffer

https://notthebee.com/article/teen-girl-in-nebraskas-first-criminal-abortion-case-sentenced-to-jail-time-and-its-a-travesty-of-justice

Nebraska sentences teen girl in first criminal abortion case. The Left is correct that it's a travesty of justice, but not for the reason they think.

Let's talk about this.

[Warning: This article involves discussion on a deeply disturbing crime]

Remember Celeste Burgess, the Nebraska teen whose mother acquired abortion pills for her so she could fit into a smaller pair of jeans, and then the pair burned the baby's body and threw the dead child in a field?
Well, the trial wrapped up, and Miss Burgess was sentenced to jail time.

However, she was NOT sentenced to jail time for murdering her child, a fact the Left missed.
Burgess received a sentence of 90 days with the possibility of early release after 50 days for removing/concealing/abandoning a dead human body; the abortion charges were dropped.

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person, but becomes a person pretty quickly as the brain starts to develop.

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

HeadSet says

Patrick says

Personally, I think that a fertilized egg is not a person

What is it then?

Same as a skin flake.

When you think about it, you're nothing but a nest of cells, a colony, a swarm.

richwicks says

Same as a skin flake.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 considers those cells to be victims of homicide when the mother is killed too. Of course we have to have a provision that mentions that it's totally not the same thing for abortion because the mother chose to terminate.