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I'm excited for housing


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2023 Mar 21, 4:54pm   8,155 views  82 comments

by AmericanKulak   ➕follow (9)   💰tip   ignore  

1957 - the peak birth year in all US history, with no equivalent year for working generations on the horizon.

All those boomers whose median age is 66 in the next decade getting COPD, CHF, and broken hips unable to keep up and mow their .25-.5 acre, 3-4 bed/1.5-2.5 bed home.

All those boomers still married about to experience the Grey Divorce wave and having to sell to split equity, then having to survive on one half retirement.

Interest rates probably staying reasonably historically normal (7% is not high, it's about the 50-year average since 1970) for the next couple of years at least.

A White Collar Female recession, busting down the #1 spenders of consumer goods as companies slash HR, PR, Marketing, DIE, etc. to maintain or restore profitability.

Severe shortage of skilled trades like Welding, Plumbing, Practical Nursing causing a boom for the Technical School-but-not-College educated.

The collapse of Blackrock/investor owned SFHs, Triplexes, small Apt complexes due to banks tranching out loans and increased maintenance and property tax costs, plus institutions pulling from current holdings to pay out retirees. No more awash with cash from Middle Aged/Nearing Retirement Age workers piling money INTO 401ks and TIAA-CREF.

It's a great time to be a Working Age Male. Save your cash and get ready to build some serious wealth.

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43   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 24, 3:13pm  

Tenpoundbass says


Nor all husband's and men where abusive cads, there no shortage of fish monger wives,with a constant sour scorn. the true partnerships didn't make compelling stories. That's why we only think of the extremes.

That's the thing.

A young guy coming home and seeing the lace doillies and $20 missing from his drawer would give his wife a spanking and HER parents would approve, and the neighbors would titter at her when they heard the gossip. "That's Betty for you. Let me tell you, young buck, you got your work cut out for ya, she's always had more Moxie than is good for a lady. We tried to raise her right and didn't spare the rod, but thank goodness she's not my problem anymore." - your father in law, 1949

Calling up the bank and telling them to not give any money to the wife and administering a spank on the buns was NOT considered cad behavior. Today, the first is impossible and the second would get you in the slammer and you'd be all but unemployable with that DV conviction for 5 slaps on her rump over your knee.

Cad behavior was being marginally employed with a drinking problem and beating your wife for a nothing. Not laying down the law as breadwinner.
44   HeadSet   2023 Mar 24, 4:26pm  

AmericanKulak says

The big myths:
Postmenopausal women like to fuck (they don't)

Correct. For many it is painful. And they do not compensate by giving BJs.
45   AD   2023 Mar 24, 10:11pm  

AmericanKulak says

The collapse of Blackrock/investor owned SFHs,


another stock i'm tracking as far as housing market is Invitation Homes Inc

it is down 33% and is a company that buys homes and then rents them

also i track the home builder etf (ticker: ITB) which is down 19% only
.
46   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 24, 10:26pm  

ad says

AmericanKulak says


The collapse of Blackrock/investor owned SFHs,


another stock i'm tracking as far as housing market is Invitation Homes Inc

it is down 33% and is a company that buys homes and then rents them

also i track the home builder etf (ticker: ITB) which is down 19% only
.


Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

I'm stunned the DR Horton stock price has recovered so well.



They built a ton of housing in Central and Central East Coast Florida, and they are sitting on a ton of unsold houses and half empty lot developments.
47   AD   2023 Mar 25, 12:15am  

AmericanKulak says


They built a ton of housing in Central and Central East Coast Florida, and they are sitting on a ton of unsold houses and half empty lot developments.


Good point, this excessive inventory will get absorbed as Florida is one of the fastest growing states. I suspect the 30 year mortgage rate will eventually settle between 5 and 5.5% within the next 6 to 9 months. 2023 is going to be a slow year.

I think the Establishment including Fed are wanting the Fed Funds rate to be decreased in 2024 to help Biden (or the Democrat nominee) in the Presidential election cycle.

It is being managed (or choreographed / orchestrated) that a recession will be declared in 2023 and a recovery will be announced by late summer 2024.

.
48   clambo   2023 Mar 25, 8:24am  

I too think interest rates will be decreased in time for the 2014 election.
I guess I have to just postpone my delusions of financial grandeur for a while longer.
49   Tenpoundbass   2023 Mar 25, 10:15am  

BTW I wasn't calling anyone out in my posts, I was just over generalizing and painting with a broad stroke. Like I think most posts in this thread were also doing.
50   clambo   2023 Mar 25, 11:20am  

"It's siesta time."

51   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 25, 11:20am  

ad says

Good point, this excessive inventory will get absorbed as Florida is one of the fastest growing states. I suspect the 30 year mortgage rate will eventually settle between 5 and 5.5% within the next 6 to 9 months. 2023 is going to be a slow year.

I think the Establishment including Fed are wanting the Fed Funds rate to be decreased in 2024 to help Biden (or the Democrat nominee) in the Presidential election cycle.

It is being managed (or choreographed / orchestrated) that a recession will be declared in 2023 and a recovery will be announced by late summer 2024.


Agreed on all counts.

One thing that makes me smile is that used house sellers are trying to get $350 for a 1979 3 bed/2 bath/carport with maybe 1400 sq ft. Meanwhile the home builders have 4 bed/2.5 baths, brand spanking new, 2 car garage going for $370 they're trying to dump.
52   AD   2023 Mar 25, 12:18pm  

.

Housing starts are below 1993 levels and clearly below 2007 levels :-/

It could be a 15 to 20 year cycle (from 2010 to 2025) whereas housing bottoms by 2025.

Look at how housing starts bottomed around 1990 and peaked at 2016.

.



.
53   SunnyvaleCA   2023 Mar 25, 1:44pm  

Back to the original topic of this thread...
AmericanKulak says


My advice to California crap shack bagholders is to sell today.

In my prime crap-shack location, I've noticed quite a few impressive major renovation/restoration/improvement/teardown projects by flippers or new owners. If you're buying a $200k crap-shack with a $2MM location, you can probably afford an extra $200k to $600k in fixing it up. The new construction in developments within 10 miles of me typically have more floorspace, but won't give you walking distance to the Apple Spaceship, a quiet neighborhood, a yard, two car garage, and (increasingly) single-family dwelling. I'll take a bit less floorspace over "semi-detached" new construction with $500/month association fee and single "carport"! There's all sorts of lousy government stuff associated with renovation that jacks up the price and delays the completion, but those two problems afflict new construction too. It seems that a two car garage is becoming important, now that vehicle break-ins, vandalism, and catalytic converter thefts are on the upswing.
54   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 25, 3:24pm  

Is lack of housing starts a myth?

Family formation at lows and shows NO signs of changing.


There is a downward trajectory of population growth, household formation as well, that’s really going to undermine the need for what’s built,” said McGill. “On the other side of that, you have the development community that’s actually very optimistic about there being a housing shortage and actually very optimistic about how much needs to be built, and they’re actually pressing the accelerator harder than we think they probably should be.”

McGill cited data from the latest Decennial Census from the U.S. Census showing household formation is about 24% below where it was in the prior four decades.

McGill’s partner Ivy Zelman, who is perhaps best known for one of the first warnings about the subprime mortgage crisis over a decade ago, agreed.

“The market is too hot. There is just a massive amount of capital that’s coming to the space,” Zelman said, referring to the investor interest in the housing market. “We actually believe the industry is already overbuilding in single-family to normalized demand by roughly 20% and about 10% for multi-family, so we couldn’t be on more of an opposite side of where the market is and where the industry is, frankly.”

Homebuilders, however, seem to disagree.


Note date of article:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/-tight-housing-market-is-already-overbuilt-one-analyst-says.html

While it's true that you got 7 Mexi/Chindians living in a 3-4 bedroom, does a single childless Millie = who will be 40% of population in 2030 and several are already past the point where only an IVF miracle will give their 40 year old ass a baby - need a 2000 sq ft zero lot 5-bedroom to xirself? There are far, far more White Native born childless than immigrant families

We've already seen urban townhomes - once built for large families of the pre 1960s - turned into 2, 3, or 4 apartments.

Also, 2nd and 3rd Gen Mexicans, ABCs, and ABIs are already almost identical to White Millies in the low childbirth department
55   NoYes   2023 Mar 25, 3:40pm  

Who will we draft to fight the coming wars?
56   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 25, 3:42pm  

NoYes says

Who will we draft to fight the coming wars?

The Trannies
57   AmericanKulak   2023 Mar 25, 5:07pm  

cisTits says


AmericanKulak says


The Trannies


Foreigners. Roman's did it. French do it now.


I heard there's a US Military Recruiting Center in Mexico City.

EDIT: I checked this and isn't true, unless there is one in the US Embassy for Dual Citizens/Green Card Holders
59   HeadSet   2023 Mar 27, 1:18pm  

AmericanKulak says

cisTits says



AmericanKulak says



The Trannies


Foreigners. Roman's did it. French do it now.



I heard there's a US Military Recruiting Center in Mexico City.

EDIT: I checked this and isn't true, unless there is one in the US Embassy for Dual Citizens/Green Card Holders

However, one does not have to be a US citizen to enlist. I remember meeting a few non-citizen enlisted men when I was in the AF.
60   GNL   2023 Mar 27, 1:45pm  

HeadSet says

However, one does not have to be a US citizen to enlist. I remember meeting a few non-citizen enlisted men when I was in the AF.

Got a link? Sorry but this sounds insane.
61   1337irr   2023 Mar 27, 1:46pm  

GNL says

HeadSet says


However, one does not have to be a US citizen to enlist. I remember meeting a few non-citizen enlisted men when I was in the AF.

Got a link? Sorry but this sounds insane.

This is true...I met a guy from Nicaragua who was in the Army.
62   GNL   2023 Mar 27, 2:55pm  

1337irr says

GNL says


HeadSet says



However, one does not have to be a US citizen to enlist. I remember meeting a few non-citizen enlisted men when I was in the AF.

Got a link? Sorry but this sounds insane.


This is true...I met a guy from Nicaragua who was in the Army.

Ok but, it would be a lot more believable if there were a link to some official government website that says a non citizen can join the armed forces.
63   GNL   2023 Mar 27, 2:59pm  

Ok, here is the answer. Amazing.



A resident alien is a foreign-born United States resident who is not an American citizen. A resident alien is also known as a permanent resident or a lawful permanent resident, which means they are considered an immigrant who has been legally and lawfully recorded as a resident of the country. A resident alien must have a green card or pass a substantial presence test.
64   PeopleUnited   2023 Mar 27, 7:59pm  

I guess I thought this was more widely known. Many Americans, especially from Mexico and Latin America became full citizens AFTER joining the military.
65   RWSGFY   2023 Mar 27, 9:11pm  

GNL says

Ok, here is the answer. Amazing.



A resident alien is a foreign-born United States resident who is not an American citizen. A resident alien is also known as a permanent resident or a lawful permanent resident, which means they are considered an immigrant who has been legally and lawfully recorded as a resident of the country. A resident alien must have a green card or pass a substantial presence test.


Green card holders are also required to register with the Selective Service and can be conscripted when either general or special-skills draft is declared.
66   RWSGFY   2023 Mar 27, 9:12pm  

NoYes says

Who will we draft to fight the coming wars?


You!
67   AD   2023 Mar 27, 9:50pm  

PeopleUnited says

I guess I thought this was more widely known. Many Americans, especially from Mexico and Latin America became full citizens AFTER joining the military.


I recall learning that typically about 10% of US Navy and also 10% of the Coast Guard were alien residents and not citizens.

.
68   zzyzzx   2023 Apr 12, 7:40am  

https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/12j9ikx/houston_apartment_owner_loses_3200_units_to/

Houston Apartment Owner Loses 3,200 Units to Foreclosure as Multifamily Feels the Heat
69   RayAmerica   2023 Apr 20, 10:26am  

US Existing Home Sales Resume Slide In March; Home Prices Drop Most In A Decade

After February's massive surge in existing home sales, expectations were for a modest pullback in March. The 14.,5% jump in Feb was revised down to 13.8% surge (still huge), but March printed a 2.4% MoM decline (worse than the expected 1.8% drop).

That is the 13th monthly decline in the last 14 months and leaves existing home sales down around 22% YoY with the SAAR dropping back to 4.44mm...
https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/us-existing-home-sales-resume-slide-march-home-prices-drop-most-decade
70   AmericanKulak   2023 Apr 20, 11:46am  

Prices are falling here steadily. Every time I look I'm seeing 5% price cuts.

Mainland brand new, never occupied housing from DR Horton with 2000 sq ft all poured concrete, all new everything, competing with 60s-80s era bland tract homes that haven't been updated since Kid N' Play were in the charts, complete with Rose Pink Bathrooms with Billard Green Living Rooms and Seashell decor, tiny sliding door closets, minimal storage, carports rather than garages. Some of the latter don't have central air, and the extensions to the original home are already falling apart under the sun and humidty.

Both are going in the late 300k's.

It's a no brainer for a new homebuyer, since the old homes are looking at another $40-60k minimum to bring them up to snuff.

People honestly believe their apartments that sold in 2016 for $180-$240k with 3.5% rates are worth $400k at 7% interest rates. When you can rent the apartment for 30% cheaper/month than the Mortgage+HOA+tax... why buy?
71   AD   2023 Apr 20, 12:23pm  

Income can accelerate while housing prices at least hold steady over the next 5 to 10 years so that home price to income ratio returns to around 5.

When we secured our VA mortgage from a local bank at a 3% rate in late summer 2016, they stated that historically the ratio range is 4 to 5.

.



.
72   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2023 Apr 20, 12:30pm  

Home prices have dropped 17-24% from their June 2022 peak in these markets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFSSES4OKo
73   AD   2023 Apr 20, 12:37pm  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says


Home prices have dropped 17-24% from their June 2022 peak in these markets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WFSSES4OKo


yep among them Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, and St George Utah ....
74   GNL   2023 Apr 20, 2:09pm  

AmericanKulak says


Mainland brand new, never occupied housing from DR Horton with 2000 sq ft all poured concrete, all new everything, competing with 60s-80s era bland tract homes that haven't been updated since Kid N' Play were in the charts, complete with Rose Pink Bathrooms with Billard Green Living Rooms and Seashell decor, tiny sliding door closets, minimal storage, carports rather than garages. Some of the latter don't have central air, and the extensions to the original home are already falling apart under the sun and humidty.

Both are going in the late 300k's

I'll bet the existing stock has bigger lots. If your area is growing and things turn around, I'd become a rehabber.
75   Patrick   2023 Apr 20, 2:23pm  

https://wolfstreet.com/2023/04/20/housing-market-takes-another-step-back-home-prices-drop-year-over-year-for-second-month-already-dismal-sales-fell-again/


The median price of all types of previously owned homes – houses, condo, co-ops – whose sales closed in March, fell year-over-year by 0.9% to $375,700, according to the National Association of Realtors. This was the second year-over-year decline in a row since February 2012, when the market emerged from Housing Bust 1
76   AD   2023 Apr 20, 4:12pm  

"The cost of homes in the United States has outpaced wage growth over the past decade. According to the Federal Finance Housing Agency, home prices rose 74% from 2010 to 2022. The average wage rose only 54% during the same time."

https://usafacts.org/data-projects/housing-vs-wages
77   GNL   2023 Apr 20, 4:28pm  

ad says

"The cost of homes in the United States has outpaced wage growth over the past decade. According to the Federal Finance Housing Agency, home prices rose 74% from 2010 to 2022. The average wage rose only 54% during the same time."

https://usafacts.org/data-projects/housing-vs-wages

That doesn't sound bad at all considering where rates have been, no?
78   Misc   2023 Apr 20, 5:40pm  

The FFHA is also cherry picking the dates having the start date be at the bottom of the housing bubble bust.
79   AmericanKulak   2023 Apr 20, 9:33pm  

ad says

When we secured our VA mortgage from a local bank at a 3% rate in late summer 2016, they stated that historically the ratio range is 4 to 5.

Great chart, thanks.
80   ForcedTQ   2023 Apr 20, 10:02pm  

ad says

Income can accelerate while housing prices at least hold steady over the next 5 to 10 years so that home price to income ratio returns to around 5.

When we secured our VA mortgage from a local bank at a 3% rate in late summer 2016, they stated that historically the ratio range is 4 to 5.

.



.


The insane part about all of that is people are ok with being house poor. The whole thought process of accepting that one’s house should cost 5-7 times one’s income is a marketing tactic. It takes people with discipline, saying fuck no that’s too much, for the market price to move. The unfortunate reality is that most people just look at the monthly payment and say, I guess I will be able to swing it, every body else is…
81   WookieMan   2023 Apr 21, 4:15am  

I'm negative in the income to home price calculation. Make more annually than my home is worth barely. I'd go up to 3x's but I'd puke doing it. 4-5x's get fucked. I'm not buying a $1.5M house. That's why we tapped the brakes on the house build. Get more bids and just let it soak in. And honestly see what interest rates do.

Need the space, but I'm not going to be one of those house poor idiots. But I also am not spending the time building and not getting what I want and have it be builder grade shit like I see in most newer built house. I could sneeze and the drywall cracks and the cheap floors start buckling.
82   HeadSet   2023 Apr 21, 7:56am  

ForcedTQ says

The unfortunate reality is that most people just look at the monthly payment and say, I guess I will be able to swing it, every body else is…

Yep, a phenomenon of the weak that will only get worse when government backed 40 year and up mortgages come out.

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