patrick.net

The_Deplorable says

https://twitter.com/geraldcelente/status/1764506623584973008

This guy is an idiot. Russia won 2 years ago... You can't be as wrong. This conflict goes on a decade from initial invasion. Dude has no clue what he's talking about. No one, and I mean no one has "won" a war since WWII. Even then it wasn't a win, just stopping the genocide of a certain religious sect.

The guy is smart in that he jumped on every podcast he can and then sell himself to give a 15 minute speech somewhere. No different than Jocko. These guys are slime bags that extract money from morons like they're some experts. I mean, do people really not realize this??

WookieMan says

"No one, and I mean no one has "won" a war since WWII."

Actually Russia defeated NATO in Ukraine and right now the entire Ukranian front is collapsing -
that is why Ukranian troops are surrendering and Victoria Nuland is resigning.
Bottom line: This is no longer a Unipolar world - that fantasy, is now dead and buried.

The_Deplorable says

WookieMan says

"No one, and I mean no one has "won" a war since WWII."

Actually Russia defeated NATO in Ukraine and right now the entire Ukranian front is collapsing -
that is why Ukranian troops are surrendering and Victoria Nuland is resigning.
Bottom line: This is no longer a Unipolar world - that fantasy, is now dead and buried.

The problem is the definition of war. This is going to go on for a long time. Isreal and Gaza have been at war for decades. It just ramped up recently. This is the type of conflict. Live somewhat peacefully, assault and pull back. It has already been that way in this part of Ukraine for almost a decade now. It only became news because Russia announced "military operations" in Ukraine.

Our media labeled it a war 2 years ago. So that's what everyone thinks. It has been going on far longer. And will go on far longer moving forward. It's not about Ukraine winning. It's about how long can the west use them as a proxy. Likely another 10 years. They were fighting when Obama and then Trump was in office in the region. This isn't a new conflict by any mean. And Rich, I don't care who started it. Russia was fighting with Ukraine before 2014. This territory has been a problem for a century. That will continue. Hence why we should decouple from the entire hemisphere. Which I think you agree with.

WookieMan says

"The problem is the definition of war."

No. Russia is gaining land and NATO is losing land. The Russian army is advancing
while the NATO army is falling apart and collapsing along the entire front. Denying the
obvious does not change the fact.

socal2 says

UkraineIsFucked says

Apparently you missed all the pre-war coverage from the NY Times, WashPo, etc. that had extensive reporting on the 'retarded Nazi Ukraine stuff'.

The same Liberal garbage that claims Israel is "genociding" Hamas in Gaza

In the NY Times?? Show it. None of the propaganda "news" outlets are in any way objecting to Israel. Show one

This is how you know your in the wrong side of this issue. The propaganda rags are on YOUR side. It's pretty fucking simple now.

Great, time for Sweden to take over. They beat Russia before, by themselves.

The_Deplorable says

WookieMan says
"The problem is the definition of war."

No. Russia is gaining land and NATO is losing land. The Russian army is advancing
while the NATO army is falling apart and collapsing along the entire front. Denying the
obvious does not change the fact.

Jesus Christ, does anyone fucking read? Every Ukrainian will be dead. In the process many Russians will lose their lives. Their demographics were already shit. They're worse now. That's the point of this. And will be over probably the next 5-8 years as this continues to drag on. This isn't going away.

The goal is to wipe out 1-2 generations of Russians and no one gives a fuck about the Ukrainians. We just send them used equipment. MIC fires up the manufacturing and is building new fresh stuff for the US. That's all this is. I swear no one on this site understands what the strategy is. NATO and the US know this is a war of attrition. The goal is to kill as many Russians as they can with their left over war machines. So in the future Russia cannot fight an all out war with NATO countries.

Even if Russia gains all of Ukraine it will be seen as a loss. This isn't about land. This is about decimating a populations demographics. It's working so far. Whether one wants to agree with that synopsis or not, that's reality.

WookieMan says

"Even if Russia gains all of Ukraine it will be seen as a loss. This isn't about land."

No. Russia defeated NATO in Ukraine proving decisively that this is not a unipolar world. And the
entire planet is aware of the fact.

WookieMan says

The goal is to wipe out 1-2 generations of Russians and no one gives a fuck about the Ukrainians. We just send them used equipment. MIC fires up the manufacturing and is building new fresh stuff for the US. That's all this is. I swear no one on this site understands what the strategy is. NATO and the US know this is a war of attrition. The goal is to kill as many Russians as they can with their left over war machines. So in the future Russia cannot fight an all out war with NATO countries.

You don't need to fight an all out war with NATO countries.

First Europe is being over-run by immigrants. It's going to fall apart as a result. The US is as well.

There's no real military in Europe, NATO is a paper tiger. The US can't meet recruitment goals so they're taking in fat people, lesbians, transgendered, nuts, you name it. Russia isn't doing this.

WE are dead. Russia is going to be the last European nation standing. All Russia has to do is reform more, and not suck so much. That's ALL they have to do, and there will be an explosion in birth rates. Currently, their fertility rate is 1.826 per woman:

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate

The United States is 1.786

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/fertility-rate

And we're a fat, poisoned, fucked up society with growing inequality which is 30 trillion dollars in debt, with a senile pedophile as president who is a figurehead with a bunch of self serving sociopaths being the real power.

We've been on this decline for 20 years. We could have EASILY come out on top, but no, we had to waste it on purposeless war.

We look very similar to the USSR did, in their waning days. If you can't see this, you're blind. Our "leadership" is arrogant, not responsive to the public, aggressive, belligerent, OLD, fanatical, and dumb. I remember when we used to make fun of the USSR's ancient leadership. Do you remember Konstantin Chernenko who was the leader for 1 year and 25 days before he dropped dead? Or Yuri Andropov, who lasted 1 year and 89 days. They died at 69, and 73 respectively. Joe Biden was elected at age 77. He's the oldest president EVER, and the oldest elected president ever - IF he was elected, and I highly doubt that.

What's the fucking point of knowing this shit, when people refuse to learn from the mistake of OTHERS? Why are you so fucking blind?

The_Deplorable says

WookieMan says

"Even if Russia gains all of Ukraine it will be seen as a loss. This isn't about land."

No. Russia defeated NATO in Ukraine proving decisively that this is not a unipolar world. And the
entire planet is aware of the fact.

You're still not getting it. It's not even about NATO. The US wants dead Russians and they're getting that done at the expense of Ukrainians. Some NATO countries tagged along. We're literally at war with Russia without a true service member on the ground. The goal isn't to win. It's to destroy Russia for a generation or two and not start a nuclear war.

This is so obvious. Russia is losing the long game. They're killing the Ukrainian men that could help them rebuild all while losing their own men. My 13 year old son could call this strategy out... This isn't hard. Ukraine was a loser a decade ago. Russia is losing this in the areas that matter. Not land. Humans. If a woman doesn't have a guy to fuck if they're dead, maimed or deployed they go elsewhere. Watch the Russian birthrate plummet and able bodied men can't work or are dead. Is that a win? Hells no.

WookieMan says

Watch the Russian birthrate plummet and able bodied men can't work or are dead. Is that a win? Hells no.

In the new world order humans are liabilities, not assets.

It’s really hard to say who wins in this war besides the globalists.

WookieMan says

You're still not getting it. It's not even about NATO. The US wants dead Russians

For WHAT reason does the United States want dead Russians?

THIS won't serve any purpose beneficial to the United States. You are incapable of seeing that. Your thinking stops and ends with "our dumb fucking incompetent assholes that run the nation WANT THIS!!! - YAAY! SUCCESS!!!"

Russia has the most nuclear weapons in the fucking world of any country. More than the US or China. If you cut their population down to 70 million, they will survive.

Russia isn't our problem. Our problem is with the dumb fucking incompetent assholes that run this nation.

You treat this with all the respect and gravity as a football game that you have a bet on. What if your team is throwing the game, and betting on themselves losing? STILL SUPPORT "YOUR" TEAM?

Patrick says

hurts because feels true

richwicks says

We've been on this decline for 20 years.

60

They killed Kennedy.

80

The events leading up to America’s involvement in WWII were essentially orchestrated by the intelligence community sanctioned by the globalist president. FDR was a globalist just like Woodrow Wilson. The ridiculous League of Nations guaranteed WWII would happen. America wanted to remain out of the fighting when Europe fell into another war. But the powers that be devised a plan to justify and garner support from the average citizen to avenge Pearl Harbor (never mind our intelligence people knew in advance it was going to happen). It was essentially the beginning of the deep state, and the fact that few recognize this just proves how successful they have been with their propaganda.

LOL! Doesn't even look like after the partition Kiev will ever be able to afford primo coke for the leaders again.

https://t.me/Royboy17th/8363

Ceffer says

LOL! Doesn't even look like after the partition Kiev will ever be able to afford primo coke for the leaders again.

Going to take ALOT more Russian meat waves to achieve even a fraction of that absurd map projection by Medvedev.

Any day now - right?


https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1764244391630184736

Here is a Bradley easily doing its thing against a bunch of poor Russians thrown into the grinder.

https://twitter.com/Danspiun/status/1764066754920079435

https://twitter.com/RealMacReport/status/1765054319836151839

If Ukraine is in NATO, the United States should be out, plain and simple.

A decision that could trigger the next world war cannot be made by transnational elites, unaccountable to any country or its citizens. As the body tasked with providing advice and consent on additions to the North Atlantic Treaty, the road to Ukraine’s NATO membership runs through the U.S. Senate. If we are serious about preserving U.S. hegemony, at no point can our nation be forced by a dependent Europe to accept the risk of nuclear escalation. We must draw a redline with NATO: You can have Ukraine or the United States. If allied boots hit the ground in Ukraine, we should walk away from NATO entirely.

In the meantime, perhaps someone should remind Jens Stoltenberg that his job is to be a steward of the strategic interests of NATO’s dues-paying members, not a shill for Ukraine. As the largest financial backer of the alliance, it is time the U.S. prioritizes participation in NATO according to our core strategic interests. WWIII is not on the agenda, and it is far past time for the United States to close NATO’s open door.

- Sen. Mike Lee, publicly bitchslapping Stoltenberg

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/nato-can-have-ukraine-or-the-usa-not-both/

First Nuland gets shitcanned and now this.

All in one week.

Sure some resisting Blobster still got their desperate warmongering into Gramp's SOTU speech. But the momentum is to Afghanistan the Ukies.

Yo Ukie Nazi Fluffers of PatNet!

Why the fuck should we care about Ukraine when Ukrainians themselves won't fight for it?

Here it comes: RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

But how do you jive this with the bullshit you post that Russia is too incompetent to fight this war?

Ppl don't pay 10k euro bribes to avoid Russians who can't shoot straight, after all.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Yo Ukie Nazi Fluffers of PatNet!

But how do you jive this with the bullshit you post that Russia is too incompetent to fight this war?

Another fine day of recruiting in Ukraine!

(a.k.a. this family was too poor to pay the bribe)

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/exhaustion-friday-march-15-2024-c

Finally, it must have driven the Ukraine-flag-in-bio people crazy that the Times respectfully reported a Putin speech without once calling him a war criminal. In fact, maybe it’s my imagination, but ever since the CIA coughed up its private Ukrainian army in that historic Times exclusive a few weeks back, it seems like our own local C&C comments Ukrainian cheerleading team has been strangely restrained.

The part of his speech the Times left out is when Putin said Russia had already been approached by some Western negotiators trying to convince Russia to “pause” the fighting to allow room for peace negotiations. Putin reasonably said they won’t pause, why would they, right when Ukraine is running out of ammunition? Putin also said he trusts “none of them” — meaning the West. Why should he?

Assuming Putin was telling the truth about being approached for peace talks (and why would he lie about that?), this is the first public confirmation that the West has blinked. As it should have. It’s the first confirmation that, despite Biden’s crazy escalatory rhetoric, the West is trying to make a deal. The problem is the West wants a deal that will allows it to claim a political victory. Like Putin said, the Proxy War was always more about politics. But it’s about survival for Russia.

Attention Uktards! Attention!

We have a Russian Derangement Syndrome Special in Aisle Sanctions!

CNN—
Russia is entering its third year of war in Ukraine with an unprecedented amount of cash in government coffers, bolstered by a record $37 billion of crude oil sales to India last year, according to new analysis, which concludes that some of the crude was refined by India and then exported to the United States as oil products worth more than $1 billion.

The analysis by the CREA estimated the US was the biggest buyer of refined products from India made from Russian crude last year, worth $1.3 billion between early December 2022, when the price cap was introduced, and the end of 2023. The organization’s estimates are based on publicly available shipping and energy data.

The value of these oil product exports rises significantly once US allies that are also enforcing sanctions against Russia are included. The CREA estimated that $9.1 billion worth of oil products made from Russian crude was imported by these nations in 2023, a 44% increase from the year before.

Moscow has found means to enrich itself off this refining and export process too. One of the Indian refineries and ports accepting Russian crude is in Vadinar, and run by a company called Nayara Energy, which is 49.1% -owned by Russian state oil giant Rosneft. The CREA estimated that the US imported $63 million worth of oil products refined in Vadinar in 2023, and that about half the crude used in the plant was Russian. All of which is entirely above board.

But the organization’s report added that exports from Vadinar “lead to significant tax revenues for the Kremlin in the form of taxing the exported Russian crude oil” and also via the profits made by Rosneft from the refining and resale to Moscow’s Western opponents.

Still, analysts say the profits that can be made from even the smallest evasion of sanctions against Russia are vast, because of the significant sums involved in trading a single oil tanker’s cargo. “Really you’re talking about something which is amazingly lucrative,” said Daniel at Windward. “The temptation to do that… is absolutely huge for the traders. They could just make $10 to 40 million within four or five months. I’m not sure there’s any other opportunity in the world to do that.”

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/02/19/russia-oil-india-ocean-trade-vpx.cnn

Oh...and Ukraine Is Totally Fucked, too.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/interference-monday-march-18-2024

🔥 Yesterday, CNN ran a totally unbiased headline, “Putin extends one man-rule in Russia after stage-managed election devoid of credible opposition.” I wonder what CNN really thought about it? Anyway, Putin won 88% of the popular vote in a same-day election yesterday. (No early or mail-in voting.) The vote predictably showed that Russians don’t want to change presidents in the middle of a war with NATO — whoops! sorry! — I meant in the middle of a war with Ukraine.

And it only took the Russians a few hours to count their ballots.

Laughably, every single Western leader criticized the Russian election. Most hilariously, that included Joseph Robinette Biden, who himself was “elected” in a drawn-out, slow-motion electoral disaster that was mangled, delayed, ballot-harvested, water-main-broked, mailed-in, extra-ballots-found, midnight-spiked, counting-room-windows blocked, election-observers rejected, and otherwise totally mucked up beyond any semblance of a believable election process.

Joe had the nerve to call Russia’s election fake. Once I stopped laughing about that, I started laughing all over again, because I realized that in other words, Joe Biden is now an election denier. So.

I have been informed by serious, fretful news commenters — many times — that “interfering” with an election — like by making Hillary Clinton memes — is a danger to our democracy. Interfering in any way is literally the worst possible thing a free citizen can do. Many good citizens, including veterans, first responders, and grandmas, are right now languishing in the shiv wings of many federal prisons, for interfering with the 2020 election by walking slowly through the Capitol rotunda taking selfies.

Even denying the validity of an election is grounds for Facebook termination with prejudice and for getting jammed on an FBI watchlist. But apparently, not if you’re denying Russia’s election. It hasn’t even been a full day yet, but somehow they already know Putin’s re-election was a fraud. Who needs evidence? It just was!

But it’s even funnier than that. Okay, it’s dark humor, since it includes a lot of newly-deceased Ukrainians. Over the weekend, right before Russia’s voting day, Ukraine — directed by NATO war planners — launched its biggest action since its failed Glorious 2023 Spring Counteroffensive. All along the border, Ukraine shot missiles, launched drones, and invaded with over 50 tanks, countless other vehicles, and over 5,000 men — attacking civilian targets related to the election, including polling places.

At first, Ukraine denied it had anything to do with the massive attack on Russia’s election infrastructure. Ukraine said hey, it wasn’t them, it was an organized resistance inside Russia who oppose Putin and the war. But then the Russians walloped the invading army, and pictures started popping up on social media showing wrecked, U.S.-made Bradley fighting vehicles, and Ukraine had to stop pretending it was a civil war.

Apparently the geniuses in NATO’s planning bunker thought it was a good idea to massacre thousands of Ukrainians and sacrifice massive amounts of material trying to manufacture a fake civil war on the border, a ‘civil war’ that nobody would have believed anyway. And then, predictably, sitting back in their safe base in Poland or wherever, NATO’s imbecilic generals just got everyone killed, and the Russians shot down all their missiles and drones and the whole thing backfired and just made Russian voters madder so they voted even more for Putin.

So I say, let’s get the January 6th prisoners out of jail to make room for the NATO generals who planned all this election interference. Which is apparently even worse than their war crimes of deliberately targeting civilian election infrastructure.

https://jameshowardkunstler.substack.com/p/gags-ands-jibes

Have you noticed how quickly our Ukraine problem went away, vanished, phhhhttttt? At least from the top of US news media websites. The original idea, as cooked-up by departed State Department strategist Victoria Nuland, was to make Ukraine a problem for Russia, but instead we made it a problem for everybody else, especially ourselves in the USA, since it looked like an attempt to kick-start World War Three. Now she is gone, but the plans she laid apparently live on.

Our Congress so far has resisted coughing up another $60-billion for the Ukraine project — most of it to be laundered through Raytheon (RTX), General Dynamics, and Lockheed Martin — so instead “Joe Biden” sent Ukraine's President Zelensky a few reels of Laurel and Hardy movies. The result was last week’s prank: four groups of mixed Ukraine troops and mercenaries drawn from sundry NATO members snuck across the border into Russia’s Belgorod region to capture a nuclear weapon storage facility while Russia held its presidential election. I suppose it looked good on the war-gaming screen.

Alas, the raid was a fiasco. Russian intel was on it like white-on-rice. The raiders met ferocious resistance and retreated into a Russian mine-field — this was the frontier, you understand, between Kharkov (Ukr) and Belgorod (Rus) — where they were annihilated. The Russian election concluded Sunday without further incident. V.V. Putin, running against three other candidates from fractional parties, won with 87 percent of the vote. He’s apparently quite popular.

“Joe Biden,” not so much here, where he is pretending to run for reelection with a party pretending to go along with the gag. Ukraine is lined up to become Afghanistan Two, another gross embarrassment for the US foreign policy establishment and “JB” personally. So, how long do you think V. Zelensky will be bopping around Kiev like Al Pacino in Scarface?

This time, poor beleaguered Ukraine won’t need America’s help plotting a coup. When that happens, as it must, since Mr. Z has nearly destroyed his country, and money from the USA for government salaries and pensions did not arrive on-time, there will be peace talks between his successors and Mr. Putin’s envoys. The optimum result for all concerned — including NATO, whether the alliance knows it or not — will be a demilitarized Ukraine, allowed to try being a nation again, though in a much-reduced condition than prior to its becoming a US bear-poking stick. It will be on a short leash within Russia’s sphere-of-influence, where it has, in fact, resided for centuries, and life will go on. Thus, has Russia at considerable cost, had to reestablish the status quo.

Patrick says

The optimum result for all concerned — including NATO, whether the alliance knows it or not — will be a demilitarized Ukraine, allowed to try being a nation again, though in a much-reduced condition than prior to its becoming a US bear-poking stick. It will be on a short leash within Russia’s sphere-of-influence, where it has, in fact, resided for centuries, and life will go on. Thus, has Russia at considerable cost, had to reestablish the status quo.

That's where his logic falls apart. Precisely because of Russia's considerable cost, that option is most likely off the table now.

Or if it is, it will be in name only: much like Eastern Europe was in the Soviet Era. Nominally independent countries with Russian military bases in them to keep them in line, like Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslavakia in 1968.

Either way...

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

That's where his logic falls apart. Precisely because of Russia's considerable cost, that option is most likely off the table now.

Progress! Russian fluffers are finally beginning to grudgingly admit that Russia has suffered "considerable cost" in their total cockup of an invasion. Despite Ukraine suffering lack of military supplies all winter, Russia has barely gained any ground in the last year to justify the monumental loss of life and material. But any day now - there will be another Blitzkrieg of Kyiv?

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

Or if it is, it will be in name only: much like Eastern Europe was in the Soviet Era. Nominally independent countries with Russian military bases in them to keep them in line, like Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslavakia in 1968.

How did that work out for the USSR? The Iron Curtain bought them a few decades of keeping their Commie slave colonies in line, but the tide is still heading in the other direction and the USSR imploded. The Ukrainian population will be a very unhappy and ungovernable population after suffering through the last 3 years of drunk Russian depravity. Any chance of Russia hanging onto significant Ukrainian land will require massive number of occupation troops that Putin foolishly got killed in the past 3 years.

Just can't see how Ukraine is anything but a massive economic, military and humanitarian catastrophe for Russia.

socal2 says

Russian fluffers are finally beginning to grudgingly admit that Russia has suffered "considerable cost"

Not a Russian Fluffer. And I didn't say otherwise.

socal2 says

Despite Ukraine suffering lack of military supplies all winter, Russia has barely gained any ground in the last year to justify the monumental loss of life and material.

You sure you aren't talking about Ukraine's counter-offensive?

It was quite the BLOODBATH as well as a total strategic defeat.

But hey! If your fantasies about this are even remotely correct, good news!

It means Ukraine doesn't need our help. And NATO can stand up to Russia w/o us! Awesome!

socal2 says

How did that work out for the USSR?

A helluva lot better than it did for Eastern Europe.

Here is a picture if Prague, 1968.

I hear it was quite the BLOODBATH.



socal2 says

Just can't see how Ukraine is anything but a massive economic, military and humanitarian catastrophe for Russia.

Yes. We know. The propaganda kool-aid you've been drinking is pretty damn good! What's that shit called again? Oh right...Bloodbath!. More potent than the shit they had Biden hopped up on during the SOTU, even.

Can an Russian fluffer point to 2 or 3 "gains" Russia has achieved in the past 3 years to justify the monumental cost of Russian life and treasure?

From my side of the ledger, Russia has lost its Naval presence and capacity to blockade anything in the Black Sea, has a couple brand new NATO members on its borders and generally embarrassed itself to the whole world showing how primitive and ineffective their military is trying to subdue their much smaller and weaker next door neighbor. Even Russia's Wagner group has taken a big hit and will likely lose a bunch of their 3rd world customers. Europe and NATO have re-committed to Trump's request to spend at least 3% GDP on defense and Russia has lost massive chunks of their crap-ass military.

On top of that, Russia has lost major gas pipelines to Europe and Ukraine is now attacking their major refineries with cheap drones.
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-oil-drone-strike-threat-ukraine-bombs-1880307

It will take decades for Russia to recoup this "investment".

MOAR winning for Russia!

Clearly - Russia's drunk military embarrassing itself to the whole world in Ukraine has sent a message to the rest of Europe to get in line!

Just imagine how much better Russia (and the world) would be today if Russia decided not to invade Ukraine.

-------------------------------------

In case of a potential conflict with Russia, NATO will gain control not only over the Baltic Sea, but also over the Black Sea

The construction of the largest #NATO base in #Europe has begun in #Romania. The project will include runways, hangars for military aircraft, schools, kindergartens, stores and a hospital. The base will be able to accommodate 10 thousand military personnel with their families.

Romania is located in a strategically important region. This base will allow to create a permanent military structure in close proximity to the war in #Ukraine.

According to the project, the airbase will be able to accommodate almost any type of modern aircraft. The base will be home to fighter jets and bombers.

In case of a potential military conflict with #Russia, the alliance will be able to strike the Russian Black Sea coast and the Caucasus, and will significantly strengthen its position in the Black Sea. The base could also serve as a command center for troop control.
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1769801479022354616

socal2 says

From my side of the ledger...

We all have heard about your 'ledger.'



And as usual, it has nothing to do with Ukraine's fate as you misconstrue even more than a Trump comment about the auto industry.

socal2 says

Progress! Russian fluffers are finally beginning to grudgingly admit that Russia has suffered "considerable cost" in their total cockup of an invasion. Despite Ukraine suffering lack of military supplies all winter, Russia has barely gained any ground in the last year to justify the monumental loss of life and material. But any day now - there will be another Blitzkrieg of Kyiv?

Russia isn't ever going to attack Kiev. They are going to destroy the entire Ukrainian military, and waste billions of dollars of US military weaponry, and ultimately cost the United States as much money as possible for starting this stupid fucking war.

If they do it right, make it humiliating enough for the fucking Neocons, MAYBE they won't start another FUCKING war that has nothing to do with the US and has no purpose in being fought. MAYBE.

Victoria Nuland is gone, but I think she's just oozed her way into some bullshit "think tank" that will be cheer leading our next stupid fucking unnecessary, wasteful, expensive, conflict that does nothing other than further harm our nation.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

And as usual, it has nothing to do with Ukraine's fate as you misconstrue even more than a Trump comment about the auto industry.

Socal hasn't been wrong on this. I dislike his take on Tesla, but we've got to be honest, Russia looks worse from this. I still don't think a person here has said Ukraine would definitively win the war. They're winning the optics whether you like it or not. Russia looks like the bad guy. Ukraine was already a bad guy with the corruption. This is that part of the world. Won't change after this. In the moment Russia has looked like shit. Not really debatable as "supposedly" the 2nd best military in the world. They just lost a fuck ton of gear to a bunch of other corrupt drunks.

WookieMan says

They're winning the optics whether you like it or not.

Optics? 100's of thousands of dead for optics? 100's of billions of dollars squandered for optics?

Money and blood well spent, I guess.

Russia has given up trying to co-operate with the West and isn't going to bother with Europe anymore, they will happily work with China and India though unless Europe comes crawling back. If they want energy, THEY can pay for the pipelines, I doubt Russia is going to do that again.