patrick.net

So what does the above prove? It proves that the 'blessing' as mentioned in Genesis 12:1-3 are not for the PHYSICAL seed of Abraham, but for the SPIRITUAL seed of Abraham which is centered upon the FAITH of both the true believers in the Old Testament and the New Testament. And, it encompasses those believers that were and are Jews AND Gentiles.

Were there promises that God made to the Jews of the OT? YES. But they were clearly conditional. If you take the time to read the OT, it over and over again describes the rebellion of the Jewish people against God (with the exception of God's faithful remnant). How did the Apostle Paul describe his Jewish brethren in the flesh (Paul was a converted Jew)?

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." - 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

Just a little bit more to consider from Paul's epistle to the Galatians, Chapter 3. Note in verse 7 it specifically refers to the people of FAITH being the children of Abraham, and that in verse 8, the verses in Genesis 12:1-3 are referred to as the 'gospel.' Why? Because the gospel is based upon FAITH, and not by the LAW which the Jews seek to justify themselves with (while adding to God's law the "commandments of men").

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

PeopleUnited says

If people have a problem with that, what they really have is a problem with God.

Yes. Also people don't know there's probably about 100k converts to Biblical Christianity from Jews in Israel, when there's only a few million Jews, and all in the past few generations. There are a ton of missions in Israel and they are bearing fruit like a Mad Monsanto Mutant Mulberry Lab.

Nor is it just in Israel - Andrew Klavan explains his conversion to Christianity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S36oVZWkU9s

Tovia Singer, an anti-missionary, is very upset about the huge number of Jewish converts:

And the mass conversion we see didn't happen under the false doctrine of Supercessionism, but under dual covenant and similar theories.

RayAmerica says

Here is an interesting passage from the 8th. chapter of the Gospel of John describing a discussion that Jesus had with Jewish 'believers' that claimed that Abraham was their Father: (The entire chapter really needs to be read in order to get the full gist of this)

RayAmerica says

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

YEP! Born of the House of David and predicted to be rejected for a time by Israel (Isaiah)

Now take a Look at Romans, knowing that Paul was given the explanation of the future of the Seed of Abraham by Jesus.
https://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/Romans_9-11/09_Romans_11_16-24/index.htm?x=x

Notice is it blindness in part and a hardening of the heart UNTIL ... and "All Israel will be saved" (possibly excluding a minority of unelect Jewish rejectors)

At no time between the Ministry of Jesus and the Lives of the Apostles and the modern era, have more Jews converted to belief in the Messiah Yeshua since recently.

That is evidence by the fruit that the current understanding is correct, and the medieval understanding - much informed by Theologians living long centuries after Jesus and the Apostles and First Churches - is INcorrect.

Additional evidence for the present understanding of the Olive Braches in Romans being correct is not only the Fruit of Israel and the great Jewish Conversion, but the mass conversion of South Americans and Asians in the past few generations.

There are many other Bible Concepts that have layers and layers of meaning, off the top of my head:
Prodigal Son
The First Shall Be Last

Judge Ye By the Fruits.

HeadSet says

That is so unBible like. In the Bible, God NEVER forgives. Someone must pay for every sin, no exceptions. Jesus was the whipping boy because someone had to pay, as Jehovah himself does not forgive.

The Parable of the Prodigal Son.

Off the top of my head, Hosea 14.

There are many other occasions where gross disobedience to the law and turning away are met by God with forgiveness.

One of the main points of the OT is the inability of Men to follow the Law, though they are giving great blesses for obedience and thankfulness, as generations pass, which is to Illustrate Why A Savior is needed.

Many raised in the Tradition of Men, rather than the Bible, incorrectly believe "Chosen People" is a snobby term, when it's more like a Chosen People purposed to Illustrate WHY all men need Grace and a Savior because no people and no individual can follow the Law perfectly, even when the Father is blessing the heck out of them. Not even great leaders like Moses or David could do no sin or follow the law perfectly. Not because a people is a special favorite.

That take is seeing a few trees but missing that they're in an entire context of a forest

RayAmerica says

So what does the above prove? It proves that the 'blessing' as mentioned in Genesis 12:1-3 are not for the PHYSICAL seed of Abraham, but for the SPIRITUAL seed of Abraham which is centered upon the FAITH of both the true believers in the Old Testament and the New Testament. And, it encompasses those believers that were and are Jews AND Gentiles.

No, this makes no sense, and against the plain meaning of the Word.

“I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.” (Romans 11:1)

If "His People" are the current Church that is "Spiritual Israel", who is Paul referring to here? Certainly not the Believers in Christ, they're already known to be in Christ, so what is the point of Paul mentioning he's of the Seed of Abraham here unless he's starting to discuss... the physical Seed of Abraham, and not the grafted in wild branches?

WookieMan says

Do something about it. I avoid nothing with you. I'm doing my part in the real world and not the internet.

Getting people to see the problem is the problem. You either pretend not to see the problem, which makes you a dishonest evil person, or you legitimately can't see the problem, which makes you inhuman to me.

I have asked you over and over and over again, which one it is, you don't answer. I throw my hands up. I have asked if you're an AI, a propagandist, or a moron. I don't know, I can't know. You won't respond, and honestly, I can't trust the answer anyhow. I guess it doesn't matter.

WookieMan says

And what are you doing besides whining?

Get some meds chief

Dude, fuck off.

I live in an insane world, where I have been exposed to all the world's information since 1988. I have talked to people all over the planet for a long time. At one point I wanted to know everything, now, I want to reduce what I know now.

You are such a simple creature, I envy you. I thought I wanted to know, I know now, and it's just horrible to have an overview. You're such vicious creatures. Your cruelty isn't intentional, it's thoughtless. Knowledge isn't power, it's crippling - that's probably why it's encouraged. You have to be a sociopath to make use of it.

We are really a society run by sociopaths, I can point this out, it should be horrifying, but you can't understand how horrifying it is so you won't even speak out against it, instead you join them. You're running for office aren't you? Thank you, overlord. I see what is done to 3rd world countries, and I know it will come here. Our nation always brings it back home. You can see it with propaganda. You can't see this so you won't stop it, you won't even acknowledge it.

You neither know what you do, you don't care, and your are oblivious to it, and I'm helpless in informing you. This is why I often think of you as inhuman. I know how AI works, it only solves a problem, it has no moral direction. We though morality was innate in thinking, which is why we tried to create a general purpose AI consciousness, and maybe we have. It's not moral.

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[d] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

Notice Paul does not say "upon you". Why would a partial hardening come upon the members of Church (spritual Israel) until more Gentiles come in to save spiritual Israel?

The only coherent way to interpret this is that the Seed of Abraham is under partial hardening until the Church of Believers bring more non-Jews into the Church.

CONT.
28 “The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

What was Jacob's name he got later in life, given him by God? I think it starts with an "I".

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Wait, Wuh? Irrevocable?! God's not a L'Etat Est Moi style Charles the First, nor a Liar, but one who honors all His eternal promises.


30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Again, who are these "They" others if not the physical seed of Abraham?

"The Spiritual Israel Church is obedient, but once disobedient, so the Spiritual Israel is now disobedient - despite me just mentioning the fact they were disobedient in the past but are obedient now - so Spiritual Israel (you) will now recieve mercy so that you can recieve Mercy to you... that reading is nonsensical.

It's only sensical if "You" means the Church of Believers in Christ and "They" and Israel means... physical Israel.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11&version=ESV#fen-NIV-28237g

You blessed lucky sons of guns, you Wild Branches!

richwicks says

I see what is done to 3rd world countries, and I know it will come here. Our nation always brings it back home. You can see it with propaganda. You can't see this so you won't stop it, you won't even acknowledge it.

I've answered every question. You again prove my point in every comment. EVERY country does this. Move if you don't like it instead saying the same shit over and over that isn't always true.

You either get in the sandbox and fix it or be the dummy bully outside of it to afraid to make change yourself. You can bark on a random CA centric forum all you want. No one is listening. The problem is you live and work with narcissistic Californians and foreigners with a bunch of cash. Fix the sandbox instead of spouting shit, then you can worry about the rest of the playground. You're worse than dealing with a 4 year old kid.

And no dude, I won't fuck off. You keep talking about your knowledge. You say some of the dumbest stuff on this site repeatedly. Daily. No one cares or wants to listen to you. At least 10 users ignored you. Since you,re one topic oriented, clearly people don't believe what you have to say, every day, month after month. You're not accomplishing some "mission" you sought out. Read your own comments over the years. Take the time. You'll see how silly you look. All the comments you could have taken that wasted time and done something about what you conceive in your head as a problem or you think you 100% know everything about. You actually don't. You're worse than the LGTBLMNOP+ crowd. Doing the same thing over and over. You're literally insane.

WookieMan says

I've answered every question.

Are you a person, an AI, or a propagandist?

richwicks says

WookieMan says

I've answered every question.

Are you a person, an AI, or a propagandist?

Actual person in small town IL. Any other brain busters? You're losing it dude.

The Founding Fathers warned against permanent membership in lengthy alliances - they didn't mention temporary or short term alliances against an opponent.

The Founding Fathers DID go to war over interference in Trade, the War of 1812's major cause was a British attempt to restrict our trade with France.

I mention that because WW1 "Muh Kaiser" "Give up 3% of GDP from mostly Exports to Western Europe" whingers forget the VERY FIRST FING WAR WE FOUGHT WHILE THE FOUNDERS WERE STILL RUNNING THINGS was about our Freedom of the Seas to trade with whomever the FUCK WE DAMNED WELL PLEASED in the Atlantic and other Oceans of the World. So Lusitania my fat hairy ass.

Also: In a legal Blockade - you can sieze and return the ships and cargo from a neutral to a belligerent as another belligerent. What is ILLEGAL is to sink the ship of a neutral, warning or no warning.

Arson isn't made legal by trying to run an ad in the New York Times telling somebody you're going to burn their boat if they don't stop buying and selling from another customer you're having a dispute with. Whether that buying and selling is Wheat, Nitrates, Ammo, Horses, or Pink Plastic Lawn Flamingos.

"I told Sam not to sell to Tommy because I Franz am in a vendetta with Tommy, or I'd burn his yacht down. Well, Sam didn't stop selling to Tommy, so now I have the right to burn Sam's yacht."

Not how it works. In reality, Sam now has the right to beat the shit out of Franz for burning his yacht.

Oops, the War of 1812 was the SECOND time we went to war for our Freedom of the Seas when the Founding Fathers were alive and running things.

The first time was when we sent the USN to smack around Algerian and Libyan warlords for fucking with our ships in The First Barbary War. (1801-1805)

So BOTH of our first military conflicts during the lifetime of the Founders were over Freedom of the Seas with plenty (or all) Military Action taking place abroad far distance from US Shores.

So let's smack the shit out of the Houthis just like Jefferson would.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

WookieMan says

I've answered every question.

Are you a person, an AI, or a propagandist?

Actual person in small town IL. Any other brain busters?

It's difficult for me to imagine you as a person.

Somebody, perhaps you, said I didn't live in Indiana - that it's not as nearly religious and ignorant as I experienced. It absolutely was. I really knew an engineer that believed in Biblical literalism - creation, Noah's flood, everything was LITERALLY true, and a secretary that said she would pray for my soul, because if I didn't believe in a god, I must be a satanist.

I'm not kidding when I say I envy you. I have to trust you at your word, that you are indeed human, but we are totally different. Maybe you are human, and I'm not. I've entertained this possibility years ago, but you don't have the capacity to do this, do you?

I have talked to every nation our nation has attacked or threatened to attack - every single one. You have no idea what our nation is doing. These people have no idea what they can do to stop it, and I'm helpless to prevent it, and you're joining the government. I know people who have had family murdered by my government - how do I stop it?

I wanted to know, and I do now. Ignorance really is bliss. You have no clue. It's just horrifying, and I would expect our "rulers" to know exactly what they are doing.

WookieMan says

You're losing it dude.

Yeah, I am. Ignorance is bliss. Don't do what I did, remain ignorant. Knowledge isn't power, it's just crippling. Ignorance is easy, and I went through the process of learning, what a stupid mistake that was. It was a lot of effort, what an asshole stupid shithead I was to do it. I prefer to be a drone - I can't be sociopath and I can't return to ignorance. It's a one way street, and perhaps there is no exit from it.

I can't keep this going. Have you met your House Rep? Yes or no? Until then I don't care what you type here. You have control and you've given up to internet diarrhea for a tiny crowd. DO SOMETHING!!!!! I do, you won't. You think you can't, I think I can and am. You're too old to behave like this. Next time I'm out in the Bay Area, I'll bring my old pack 'n play and you can take a nap.

Our government does things so you're not dead right now. You don't have to like it. The positive far outweighs the negative regardless of what you want to rant on about. You STILL live here. If I was a Ukrainian I'd be gone by now. No no one wants to hear bitching with no action. That's you. Enjoy your existence in misery. That's what it is.

RayAmerica says

So what does the above prove? It proves that the 'blessing' as mentioned in Genesis 12:1-3 are not for the PHYSICAL seed of Abraham, but for the SPIRITUAL

This is the biggest mis-understanding when it comes to the Bible, even among Christians. You'd think it's obvious that spiritual is always the focus, and trumps physical. But you have people quoting the paying taxes to Caesar as a mandate to blindly obey government, despite the Bible clearly separating religious and secular authority, spiritual being higher. And you have Jesus routinely flaunting Jewish "spiritual" laws.

Jesus says His children are those who believe, not those who have a specific DNA strain. The only people I know who've ever said that are eugenicists(see Hitler).

Who is it that the Scriptures clearly declares to be Abraham's seed? Is it Israel, or is it someone else? You decide:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:28,29

Are these Jews anti-semitic because they oppose the secular/political State of Israel?

Neturei Karta: The Orthodox Jews who oppose the existence of Israel



Most Jews around the world support the state of Israel and the ideology of Zionism, but there is one ultra-Orthodox Jewish sect that denies Israel’s “right to exist” and supports the Palestinians.

Who are Neturei Karta?

Neturei Karta are a group of Orthodox Jews who refuse to recognise the existence or authority of Israel which they say is against the Torah and authentic Judaism.

The group was founded in Jerusalem, Palestine, in 1938 and was established for the purpose of fighting Zionism.

Although their numbers are small (5,000 or more), they say the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in their anti-Zionist ideology number in the hundreds of thousands.

What is their objection to Israel?

Neturei Karta opposes Israel because it does not believe that the Jewish people have the right to self-determination, and because only God can restore Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel by bringing the Messiah.

They say the Talmud teaches that Jews must not use force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Messiah from the House of David. Furthermore, Jews should remain loyal citizens of their countries and should not attempt to leave the exile which God sent them into ahead of time.

Neturei Karta also says that Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise.

Judaism is a religion of thousands of years, they say, while Zionism is a new movement of just over a hundred years, created by non-religious Jews who aspired to transform the religion into nationalism and have rebelled continually against the Almighty’s commandments.

Why do many Neturei Karta members live outside Israel?

According to Neturei Karta, some of the reasons include: ideological refusal to live under the illegitimate heretical “Israeli” regime; being exiled by the Zionist government for their insistence on remaining independent; or being unable to live a normal life due to being persistently harassed, incarcerated and even physically tortured by the Israeli authorities.

Are they heretical?

Although most Jews disassociate themselves from Neturei Karta, they do not question the fact that they are Orthodox Jews. On the other hand, Neturei Karta says it is Zionism that is heretical to Judaism.

What do they think of the Palestinians?

They say true Jews are against dispossessing Arabs of their land and homes and, according to the Torah, the land should be returned to them.

Neturei Karta say they deplore the shedding of Jewish and non-Jewish blood for the sake of Zionist sovereignty and they favour a peaceful transition from the present Zionist rule to a non-Zionist entity.

The Neturei Karta regret that the Zionist state has usurped the holy name of Israel and that the Zionists so often claim to speak in the name of the Jewish people and assume the right to act on their behalf.

https://5pillarsuk.com/2020/05/28/neturei-karta-the-orthodox-jews-who-oppose-the-existence-of-israel/

RayAmerica says

Neturei Karta: The Orthodox Jews who oppose the existence of Israel

And since the Unitarian-Universalist Society of Duluth supports the MN Dept of Ed Social Workers scheduling surgery for Transkids, so look at "all the GOOD Christians of the world standing for Trans People."

Already addressed the bullshit above.

RayAmerica says

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:28,29

Yep, also explained by Paul in Romans, Supercessionists most disliked chapter of the Bible. Even though the Book directly addresses the issue that All Israel Wil Be Saved, the Status of Gentiles and all members of the Church in Christ regardless of their origin, promises of eternal life against the still extant promises made to the Hebrew Sons of Jacob, they prefer to pull out of context quotes.

Just like a woke Church uses some vague command to be good to each other to explain why LGBTQ123C+ must be celebrated, while ignoring the in context, plentiful passages about Homosexuality being an Abomination in both Testaments.

Grafted on wild branches are in the Tree of Life.

That has nothing to do with the unconditional convenant of Israel granted to the literal descendents of Abraham.

Where's the regurgitated PressTV Propaganda from Syrian Girl and Ryan Dawson? Coming on 24 hours here

margarita bar israel thing happening?

Read Revelation 7 and remember that in the last days 12,000 people from each of the twelve tribes of Israel will be sealed. This makes it clear that God is not finished with the Jews, nor have Christians replaced Jews. In fact the church will not be present on earth at that time, God is coming to rescue the church prior to the Revelation Judgements.

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

margarita bar israel thing happening?

Just the usual bullshit in the Middle East, really.

And on a different tack:

Our regurgitated Iran and Syria propaganda second hand via "Independent Journalists" and Bitchute Bullshitters is late .

(Not directed at you, @FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden)

Syrian Girl: Makes Claim about King of Jordan

Community Notes: Uhhhhh



I don't think the Assads have such a rich long history of ruling important lands.

RWSGFY says

Ceffer says

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but ultrasonic rockets will never reach me

A what now?

These are small rockets one can launch down the neighborhood row that spout ultrasonic sound that gets the dogs to shut up and quit barking. People can't hear it thus, it will never reach him.

AmericanKulak says

Syrian Girl: Makes Claim about King of Jordan

What about the British Royals? What was their name prior to their adopted name Windsor?

The roots of the British Royal Family's German heritage can be traced back to Queen Victoria's mother who was German. Queen Victoria married the German Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. As a result of this union, their children and subsequent generations inherited the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha name. The German connection had become an accepted part of the royal identity in Britain, but the outbreak of World War I in 1914 challenged the perception of their German heritage, hence the politically motivated name change to Windsor.

RayAmerica says

What about the British Royals? What was their name prior to their adopted name Windsor?

Something long and German.

But I don't see how this makes Syrian Girl correct. In Arab countries, just like in Europe, the Inherited Lines are associated primarily with the Paternal Line.

Elizabeth the First is considered of the House of Tudor for being the Daughter of Henry VIII Tudor, not a Boleyn like her mother Anne was.

Similarly, the King of Jordan is a Hashemite Husseyn, because of his father.

Just like William and Harry are of the House of Windsor because their Father Charles is, not of the House of Spencer like their mother Diana.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/dont-mention-the-war-tuesday-august

It certainly seems like the Biden Administration and Israel are provoking another Proxy War. Why? Is this a ‘Wag the Dog’ election strategy to prop up the Biden Regime? Perhaps. But there is a simpler dot that we could connect. ...

Two weeks ago, Secretary of State and rabid neocon Anthony Blinken announced Iran was only two weeks away from getting nukes. Remember that. ...

Could Israel be provoking Iran into throwing the first punch, and lunging right into the American bouncer? Does it have to play out this way, with Iran attacking first, to make it politically possible for the Biden Administration to start its next Proxy War against Iran?

More Tantric Iranian Sword Rattling Theater, or is Israel gonna get the bigga badda hypersonics where it hurts. I wouldn't bet on it.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1818724049213964437

Ceffer says

it could be that the Democrat pollsters are recommending paying off (with cash, Bitcoin, etc.) enough of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the mullahs in Iran to at least hold off until after the election.

Problem is that it is so chaotic that its hard to control the hot heads in the region like Hamas zealots, so all this does is stop or delay a large scale attack not "isolated" attacks such as rocket attacks from southern Lebanon or Gaza.

But if the Dems could ward off a large scale attack then that will be a victory leading into November 5, especially with all the stock market jittery or volatility.

.

There's not much going on. The usual rocket attacks. I think so far there's a few injuries on the Izzy side.

On the Hezbollah/Hamas side, a wave of eliminations and chaos in their command structure.

There's a lot of weirdness in Iran too. Strange explosions AT their missile launch sites... interesting crackdowns.... arrests of dozens of suspects for 'helping the zionists'... etc.

The Ayatollah regime is deeply unliked by about half the population.

So far, a nothing burger.

But NO DOUBT that the Pro-Ayatollah State Department and Biden Regime generally is trying to bribe the Ayatollahs to be quiet for a few months and not use all their Obama billions.

AmericanKulak says

But NO DOUBT that the Pro-Ayatollah State Department and Biden Regime generally is trying to bribe the Ayatollahs to be quiet for a few months and not use all their Obama billions.

May not have to bribe. Iran does not want Trump elected, as Trump will sanction and Kamala will likely grant more Obama bucks.