patrick.net

Realtors are sales people. They're hired by people who think they're necessary. They don't provide legal advice, they don't represent anyone except themselves. They drink koolaide that tells them they're marketing professionals (listing on the mls, big deal!) and that they are necessary to a home sale. But if you can drive around and find a home or look on the internet, they're not needed. So far as them being necessary to the seller, that's a load of crap. Their only loyalty is to themselves. They hold no magic key to any sale.

When fellatio pokes fun at me in his condescending little way, saying that I'm playing life and acting like a 12-year old it hurts my feelings and makes me cry. My tin-foil hat rusts and I worked hard to make it. I'M TELLING MY MOMMY AND SHE'LL SPANK YOU!

When fellatio pokes fun at me in his condescending little way, saying that I’m playing life and acting like a 12-year old it hurts my feelings and makes me cry. My tin-foil hat rusts and I worked hard to make it. I’M TELLING MY MOMMY AND SHE’LL SPANK YOU!

As well you should, he's so articulate and fantastic, you should think more like him, then maybe your Tin hat would be rust-proof. . .

Yeah.

...and I was expecting sexist comments about mom & spankings.

The only sexist thing about it is that mom did the spanking. Of course, dad should.

I was expecting more of the perverted type of comments - such as "what does mom look like?" or "oooooooooo, can't wait!" Even, "have mom call me next!" You guys are being way too kind, considering I left the door open for that one.

Oooh, you meant *sexy* comments. I was purely thinking about sexist ones.

The fact of the matter is there are some honest, hard-working real estate agents out there. But only a fool would say that there aren't quite a few agents that are only in it for the (THEIR) money and it has hurt the profession....and it has hurt quite a few buyers/sellers.
The profession is inherently crippled by its compensation system. The dark underside of capitalism is greed and there are many out there who will completely disregard their fiduciary responsibility to their clients in order to increase their own gains.
This profession is not unlike other professions that compensate by commission. Car salesman, mortgage brokers and financial "planners" are all in areas that suffer bad reputations due to the actions of many of their peers.
Does it mean all agents are untrustworthy? ABSOLUTELY NOT, but unfortunately the actions of a few dictate that we have to watch ALL agents closely to make sure we aren't being take advantage of by unscrupulous behavior.

Well said Bap33.

Realtors in the past had something to offer in that they had working knowledge of an area and were able to act as marketing agents by providing listing services and organizing open houses.

But with the advent of the internet, everyone has access to information, maps, copious online methods of performing your own listings as well as a wealth of data and forms for download whereby they can sell their own damn house.

Honestly folks, how difficult do you think it really is to sell a house? Is this something that requires copious amounts of schooling? (like what is needed to be an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, etc)
Of course not. It is a simple SALE of an item! No different that selling a car, doing your own garage sale and so forth. There is absolutely NO need for a middle man. None.

Realtors will go the way of the dinosaur as a younger and more tech savvy generation realizes they are forking over hard earned cash to some douchebag that likes to label themselves as a 'pro'.

Oooh, you meant *sexy* comments. I was purely thinking about sexist ones.

I just had a Spinal Tap moment. :)

Diomedes say:
"Realtors will go the way of the dinosaur as a younger and more tech savvy generation realizes they are forking over hard earned cash to some douchebag that likes to label themselves as a ‘pro’."

Amen to that. Car salesmen work for the company that makes the cars, therefore have the corner on the market for that brand of product. If I choose to resell it, I can either go thru a car lot or sell it myself. It's common knowledge that if you trade-in your car, or sell it to a car lot, you lose money but possibly gain (minimal) convenience.

However, I own my home - and that means that I can sell it myself. A realtor no longer has the ability to put it on a lot (the mls) in order to get more traffic. The interweb takes care of that now.

From the front page of YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2w59H_kbU&feature=channel_page&feature=pyv&gclid=CPXam8-MmJsCFRNinAodXX8U_Q

It is really incredible to me that this sort of thing still flies.

...and yet another one! Note, the shill comments. This one showed up as an advertisement in the margins following a query that had nothing to do with housing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0RW0sZ71AI&feature=pyv&gclid=CJW39YeOmJsCFRWbnAod2mdbbQ

You'd think they'd spend a little more and get professional actors & spokesmen instead of the crappy ones they hired.

>>Oooh, you meant *sexy* comments. I was purely thinking about sexist on

>I just had a Spinal Tap moment.

Now this is getting too clever for me. Even Urban Dictionary does not define "Spinal Tap Moment". Searching......searching.... --ok, I think I got it.: "Moment of great embarrassment" (possibly related to a scene were heavy-metal band goes through airport security and gets exposed).
Well, enough with the lulz. I'm going to quit while I still can. Touche'.

@justme

"Now this is getting too clever for me. Even Urban Dictionary does not define “Spinal Tap Moment”. Searching……searching…. –ok, I think I got it.: “Moment of great embarrassment” (possibly related to a scene were heavy-metal band goes through airport security and gets exposed).
Well, enough with the lulz. I’m going to quit while I still can. Touche’."

It's not that difficult for things to get 'too clever' for you. I'd think you'd be used to that by now.

Sorry - there's a scene in the movie where the record company won't put out an album with a cover that has a woman on all fours wearing a black leather barely there outfit with a leash around her neck, and a man's hand shoving a glove into her nose. The title is "Smell the Glove." Nigel Tuftner (Christopher Guest) says that he doesn't know why the album can't go on the shelves the way it is... The record label exec explains that it's sexist.

Nigel replies, "what's wrong with being sexy?"

My bad. I highly recommend the movie, tho. It's stupid humor at its best, many moments of hilarity along the lines of "Airplane!" The Spinal Tap scene that you described has one of the band members attempting to pass through airport security with a cucumber wrapped in tin foil in his pants to look better to the ladies. The movie spawned several beautiful songs lampooning metal & rock song lyrics, "Big Bottoms," "Sex Farm Woman," and a song from the sixties (made up), "Listen to What the Flower People Say." And there's a new movie that is a documentary about an actual metal band that never made it called "Anvil." Supposed to be great.

But I digress. Realtor joke I heard yesterday:

Q: What's the most common statement from realtors in 2008/2009?

A: Would you like fries with that?

If you want to actually buy a piece pf property you should work with the listing agent and pay them a fee. A listing agent will work with you th beat up the seller and you can almost always buy a home for less when you work with a listing agent and let them "double end" the deal.

Eliiemae,

I have actually seen the movie, but I forgot that part. Good one! You could say that I was attempting a parody of Nigel Tuffnell, without actually being conscious of it. Worse things could happen, I suppose. I'll keep in mind the Anvil" thing, sounds cool.

How about a mockumentary about real-estate agents? That would work for me. The possibilities seem endless....

American Beauty's Annette Benning chacter - "I WILL SELL THIS HOUSE TODAY!" (as she's wearing her underwear cleaning windows before an open house) would be a great start.

Willy,

Now I'm all confused. You make nice with me on the other thread (prop 13), and then you are being mean to me here. I just know what to think anymore. But we can still be friends, really! For example, Bap and I get along reasonably, even though we have near-violent disagreements about just about everything. We may even have called each other a name or two.

Peace?

[Bap, now I understand your comment about Willy better. It really is hard sometime to know how to feel :-)]

I'm terrible with movies. I forget them. Another good one.

@justme
“Now this is getting too clever for me. Even Urban Dictionary does not define “Spinal Tap Moment”. Searching……searching…. –ok, I think I got it.: “Moment of great embarrassment” (possibly related to a scene were heavy-metal band goes through airport security and gets exposed).
Well, enough with the lulz. I’m going to quit while I still can. Touche’.”
It’s not that difficult for things to get ‘too clever’ for you. I’d think you’d be used to that by now.

justme:
He can be quite the wanker himself. I welcome spirited discussions, and when attacked by a koolaide drinking realtor's subordinate who is condescending and boorish, I have no problem with changing their name to something more appropriate (as in fellatio - and he made it wayyyyy to easy). I hit a homer on that one, or at the very least got to 3rd base. However, IMHO attacking your ability to be clever fouled out.

Just sayin'

"I have no problem with changing their name to something more appropriate (as in fellatio - and he made it wayyyyy to easy). I hit a homer on that one"

Might you mean you hit a hummer with that one? But I assume fellatio expected to take a few licks for giving you lip since he's a jerk who can't get ahead. (no offense to my realtor peeps who don't suck)

Mikey likes it..

Mikey likes it..

Yea - but is it just lip service? Throaty voice, whitest teeth I've ever come across... Blew me away.

However, I own my home - and that means that I can sell it myself.

True, but the majority of your potential serious buyers will have called a realtor. That is the crux of the issue.

And FAB is right for when a house you are interested in buying is listed. Work with the listing agent only, do not bring in a "buyer's agent." When the listing agent does not have to split, he will work extra hard to close, even if it means siding with you and convincing the seller to lower the price.

Headset say:
"True, but the majority of your potential serious buyers will have called a realtor. That is the crux of the issue."

If I were selling, I'd set my price and if they brought a realtor, they can add the commission on top of it. That's up to them. I have a friend who's a realtor and she was complaining that many fsbo's are doing this - and the buyers are deciding to buy without the realtor because of it.

As it should be.

If I were selling, I’d set my price and if they brought a realtor, they can add the commission on top of it. That’s up to them. I have a friend who’s a realtor and she was complaining that many fsbo’s are doing this - and the buyers are deciding to buy without the realtor because of it.

Problem - Before the realtor will show the client around, the buyer's agent realtor makes the client sign a contract. This contact states that any house the client buys within a particular time (usually 90 to 180 days) obligates the client to pay 3% if FSBO and 6% or so if listed. This contact will include any FSBO house shown by the realtor, and often any FSBO house the client finds on his own.

So, if a realtor brought a buyer and you refuse to pay the 3% out of your proceeds, the buyer will have to cough up the 3% out of pocket. This will kill the deal.

When I was in the market for homes, I refused to let a realtor show me any FSBO. I wanted the realtor to show his listings, and I would find FSBOs on my own. Then I would get the best deal, whether listed or not.

If I were selling, I’d set my price and if they brought a realtor, they can add the commission on top of it. That’s up to them. I have a friend who’s a realtor and she was complaining that many fsbo’s are doing this - and the buyers are deciding to buy without the realtor because of it.

Problem - Before the realtor will show the client around, the buyer’s agent realtor makes the client sign a contract. This contact states that any house the client buys within a particular time (usually 90 to 180 days) obligates the client to pay 3% if FSBO and 6% or so if listed. This contact will include any FSBO house shown by the realtor, and often any FSBO house the client finds on his own.
So, if a realtor brought a buyer and you refuse to pay the 3% out of your proceeds, the buyer will have to cough up the 3% out of pocket. This will kill the deal.
When I was in the market for homes, I refused to let a realtor show me any FSBO. I wanted the realtor to show his listings, and I would find FSBOs on my own. Then I would get the best deal, whether listed or not.

Not all realtors require a contract before showing a home. If they do, it's up the the potential buyer as to whether they want that realtor to show them homes. Your final statement is a reason why fsbo's are so much a better deal. But once again, if I'm selling and someone wants to buy, they'll add the commission on top of what I want out of the house.

I've dealt with 3 different realtors and I've never heard of one who has required signing a contract saying that you'd go through them if they showed you a property.

The value that a realtor provides is NOT in touring a property. Most of the time the realtor just stands there while you look around. If that was all that they did they wouldn't be in business.

The value that a realtor provides is in coordinating everything that is necessary to make sure that the transaction goes smoothly. This means preparing and submitting your offer, following up with the seller, requesting and filing all paper work, helping to set up inspections, and dealing with all the other stuff that comes up when buying a home.

That said, any seller in the current market who expects to have the buyer pay their realtor's fees had damned sure have an amazing deal already. A 3% fee does not translate to a 3% price difference, either, because in today's market the banks aren't going to allow you to tack that onto the loan unless you're already appraising higher than asking. If you honestly expect the buyer to pay that fee, you need to ensure that you're asking for at least 5-10% under the appraised value of the home (and that appraisal had better be less than 90 days old).

I do agree with the sentiment that 3% is far too high a price for the services that realtors are performing though. 3% has been standard for decades, but now we have computerized processes for everything. Hell, you don't even have to physically sign your offer letter anymore. With the rise of companies like Redfin, it seems inevitable that transaction costs will go down.

see page 1 of state min. requirements.
http://www.dre.ca.gov/pdf_docs/re4.pdf
Classes are often provided through your local community college.

On the other hand ..."Buying RE for Dummies" maybe cheaper greater indebt and
pro-consumer focused.

"The value that a realtor provides is in coordinating everything that is necessary to make sure that the transaction goes smoothly. This means preparing and submitting your offer, following up with the seller, requesting and filing all paper work, helping to set up inspections, and dealing with all the other stuff that comes up when buying a home." - Kevin 2009

None of this is rocket science. It can easily be done on your own. And you'll probably get a cheaper, more qualified inspector on your own. One that isn't in bed with the realtor. Yes, this stuff can be a bit of a pain, but 3% of a $300k home is $9,000. I would postulate that the "value" isn't worth it.

On a lighter note - my favorite quote from 2008 is one that Tara Reid said. If you don't know who Tara is, she's a starlet most famous for a show called "Taradise" where she traveled the world party spots in bikinis (showing off some spectacularly awful plastic surgery), getting falling-down-drunk and stupid and vomiting (but in a cute way?). Her show was cancelled shortly after it started. This young woman said, "I'm not very smart. I make Jessica Simpson look like a ROCK scientist." (Jessica Simpson is famous for thinking that tuna in a can is chicken because the ad says, "chicken of the sea.")

Given that statement, I should change my opening sentence to, "None of this is geology..."

In theory...a real estate agent should be very knowledgeable about protecting a buyer in any way possible from all the stuff that can go wrong
In theory...its not just the license but the long experience, having sold 100's of homes and having learned from experience of what could go wrong, what to look for
In theory...its a profession just like anything else, you wouldn't try to become a dentist in order to fix your teeth, would you?

In REALITY...real estate agents know nothing more about real estate than anybody that has common sense and gets a license.
In reality...real estate agents do nothing to protect the buyer but only whats best for themselves...which is..get the deal signed and delivered and at the highest price possible
In reality...real estate agents use boiler plate forms which attorneys have put together and when you ask a real estate agent about each individual point most of them canNOT even explain it
In reality...everybody and anybody can be a real estate agent - when you are a listing agent, the house WILL sell eventually and you do nothing except stand around on sundays, smile and tell people how charming the house is, how great the owners are and how nice the views are (even though the house has NO views at all)

This is from my own experience with realtors here in california. Basically, in our neighborhood EVERY stay home mom is a realtor. No kidding. And they do what for me...send me listings they only are supposed to have access to...how come I can find every listing they send me online, myself?

Times have changed, the internet is there now - Zillow etc...if a realtor did what they are supposed to do, I'd say..yes, you need an experienced fully fledged realtor, that knows everything and anything about selling/buying/building/inspecting a house...But they simply don't.

And now they are complaining that it takes 6 months to sell a house and the money is bad for the time you put in. You know what? That is what being a realtor is all about, buddy!! You were raking it in, in the past 6 years, made more money than god...and if you don't have any dough on the sidelines for now - you are definitely not my realtor of choice.

I am amazed just how lazy some of these realtors are, when they realize that it won't come easy...they walk away and send you an email per day with the latest listings, anybody can find online. These are the times where you have to work your butt off to stay afloat. But realtors are sooo spoiled from the past years, that it seems not worth their "valuable" time.

If I find a realtor that is all a realtor should be in theory, I'll change my mind.

I’ve dealt with 3 different realtors and I’ve never heard of one who has required signing a contract saying that you’d go through them if they showed you a property.

Read my post carefully. Before a real estate agent will act as buyer's agent, they slap down that contract. It is always free for a realtor to show listed properties.

It does not matter how easy the realtor's job may be. What matters is that too many potential buyers have attached themselves to an agent. The agent will only show the buyers homes that pay a commission, which means listed properties first and then begrudgingly FSBOs that advertise "3% to selling agent." They will not show a FSBO who does not offer to pay the 3% unless they have that buyers agent contract.

Educated buyers are hard to find. A few years back, I had one house that I was selling FSBO that caught the eye of a state trooper. He saw the sign in the yard when he was visiting his mom nearby. He looked at the home and wanted to buy. Unfortunately, he hooked up with a real estate agent who "because she knew him from school, was showing him houses for free." Since I was not willing to list the property, she talked him out of buying that house.

If a dentist does not do a good job, you will not come back in 6 months.

If a realtor does not do a good job, you will never need another one (but the bank may still hire her later to sell your house).

If you are not planning to do for living, don't waste your time on it. If you do it because you want to learn more to identify how bad the so called "professional" agents are, it's not a bad idea.

Use it to save couple bucks, it won't work that way.

To purchase a house with the right price, all you need is your negotiation skill, right timing and right attitude.

Think about using the listing agent as a double agent (represent your side too), it will weaken their power to fully represent the buyer side, since human is human. But first, you have to know well how to play the game and all the tricks that they can use on you.

Good luck.

i love realtards they push papers, do nothing, scam people out of money, sell overpriced delapitated homes in LALA land for imbecilic dumb asses. realtards.

HeadSet says

I’ve dealt with 3 different realtors and I’ve never heard of one who has required signing a contract saying that you’d go through them if they showed you a property.

Read my post carefully. Before a real estate agent will act as buyer’s agent, they slap down that contract. It is always free for a realtor to show listed properties.
It does not matter how easy the realtor’s job may be. What matters is that too many potential buyers have attached themselves to an agent. The agent will only show the buyers homes that pay a commission, which means listed properties first and then begrudgingly FSBOs that advertise “3% to selling agent.” They will not show a FSBO who does not offer to pay the 3% unless they have that buyers agent contract.
Educated buyers are hard to find. A few years back, I had one house that I was selling FSBO that caught the eye of a state trooper. He saw the sign in the yard when he was visiting his mom nearby. He looked at the home and wanted to buy. Unfortunately, he hooked up with a real estate agent who “because she knew him from school, was showing him houses for free.” Since I was not willing to list the property, she talked him out of buying that house.

I found it rather "interesting" when I moved to CA and all my work associates descended on me with two things -

1) All the RE cliches of buy now, it's your best investment, get in anywhere and build equity
2) I have this great buyer's agent friend that will help you

My impulse was naturally to run away. Oh my God, had I done what those people were telling me to do: get a ARM, plus a second mortgage for a down, buy any pile of rotting sticks and try to flip it ... I guess I *might* have timed the market and made some money, but more likely I would have been screwed like many of THEM were. One lady was trying to convince me around 2005 to buy a condo in her complex. By 2007 she was worried about foreclosure when her ARM was about to reset. Strangely, she was still pitching the idea of real estate to me - now she thought I should buy her place.

I tried to FSBO my house back east. Small City, great old house. The agents clearly were doing all they could to steer people away.

Sheesh.

zetabeos1 says

As before, many have no clue, or capacity to understand what they were really doing.

No need. The machine works just fine as long as:

1. Listing agents know how to type your the details into the MLS

2. Buyers agents know how to drive people around and fill out a offer

Once a contract is signed, it is a title company or lawyer, and a loan officer that handle the closing.

The fuel for the NAR real estate machine is that an overwhelming number of buyers think the first step to buying a home is to call a realtor. That concept is well known to anyone who has tried FSBO.

zetabeos1 says

When the bubble started back in the late 90s, It was one of the business publications described realtors as former Tupperware salespeople, flocking to RE profession due to the boom. As before, many have no clue, or capacity to understand what they were really doing.

Two years back I talked to an experience real estate agent. According to him 75% of agents are these kind as described above - "flocking to RE profession in boom-time". He was telling that most of these agents do not have any clue how things work in "normal" market.

In tough market most likely they will go back to Tupperware salespeople profession again.

I know all this because my wife and I both got our RE licenses in California 3 years ago — she became a Realtor — I just wanted to know more about the biz — and she is LIGHT YEARS ahead of me now, because of all of the experience she has gained in that time, as well as making some mistakes, and having her Broker protect/watch out for her to make sure that the mistakes didn’t affect her clients (because they were caught early on, before they could adversely affect the deal).

No offense. But I don't think the license + years of working in that area means experience. It's more tricks to play on buyers and sellers but definitely doesn't mean experience.