patrick.net

I wish it was possible.

The owners probably signed a contract indicating that the they have exclusive rights to sell the property. If it is listed through real estate agents, you need a real estate agent to represent you. If you have no buyer agent, then the selling agent can/will be your buying agent. They will then get double commission. The commission is out of your reach.

It's like a stock market. You need a broker to buy stocks.

If this was possible, you will find buyer agents in the homeless shelters :)

We tried doing that once because we were disappointed with our agent and the other side wouldn't touch it. They said that since she had procured the buyer that she was entitled to her commission. They were concerned over the legality of the whole thing since it was a contract and it could be enforced.

On the side note, what is the address for this property? We'll check to see if they really owe that much money to be asking you for more. It may be a bluff.

Your buyer agent should have the resource to confirm this for you. But even if they know it's a bluff, telling you will kill the deal and they won't get paid.

Another example of why the buyer agent does not work for you. They open the door for you and they fill out a form for you. Heck, they even use computers to fill out the form for people now.

Thanks Kat and Vain. For future houses, it seems like it might be better to just try without a buyer's agent to avoid this problem.

Vain, we checked into it; they really do owe that much.

mthom says

Thanks Kat and Vain. For future houses, it seems like it might be better to just try without a buyer’s agent to avoid this problem.
Vain, we checked into it; they really do owe that much.

Well just remember if you go into it without a buyer agent, you just benefit the seller agent because they will take double commission for being both the buying and selling agent.

If you love the house, then what's $15k compared to a $500k home?

But if you don't care much for it, but would like it at $500k, just decline their offer. The agents might actually fork some money out of their commissions to make the deal work. It's better that they earn $7k each than nothing.

But they can give "rebates." They don't have to keep the full 6%. For example, in the above situation, to get the deal done, they could rebate 3% to the seller and still keep 3%. I don't know how often they do 3%, but we've been approached at open houses with 1% back. Since we do most of the work anyway, I don't know what we're paying a buying agent for anyway.

mthom says

But they can give “rebates.” They don’t have to keep the full 6%. For example, in the above situation, to get the deal done, they could rebate 3% to the seller and still keep 3%. I don’t know how often they do 3%, but we’ve been approached at open houses with 1% back. Since we do most of the work anyway, I don’t know what we’re paying a buying agent for anyway.

Yeah many buyer agents give rebates. But they are not required to. Giving a 3% rebate would completely wipe out the commission of 1 of 2 agents. And I highly doubt the seller agent wants to share with the buyer agent.

Buyer agent always want to market themselves as 1) knowing the market, 2) negotiating the best price for you, and 3) sometimes may try to claim they have a keen eye for a home (with some limitations.

1) They know the market, but the knowledge is for themselves. I don't think many buyer agents will convince their buyer not to buy a home if it's overpriced because their pay check depends on it.
2) How do they negotiate. I really want to know. All they ever do is call the listing agent, and hope they click. Then you enter a bidding war if any.
3) They want appear to know alot about home repair etc, but if you probe harder, they will be reluctant to answer you, and defend themselves and say they are not contractors, and that you should seek one.

Same if you ask them about the loan process. They will refer you to a loan guy.
Same if you ask about the after math of the sale. They will tell you to talk to an accountant.
Anything they can advise you on can easily be found on the first result when you google it.

I really want to hear a buyer agent make a solid claim (no BS) as to exactly what they do for the buyer. Just one claim/task.

Have you tried Redfin? They are in certain markets and they do the buyer's agent side taking much less commission (so I have seen on the web site, but I haven't actually used them). I wouldn't sign a 'contract' with a buyer's agent. Does that even exist? If they offer a benefit to you, e.g. help find you what you want, provide useful information, and do the paperwork, great. Otherwise you owe them nothing but a thank you. Just as you would a salesperson in an electronics store who failed to find you the best product at the best price.

I have absolutely bought without an agent before and yes, the selling agent / broker generally just takes the other half of the commission. I didn't care one bit since the seller pays. If that means it's a short sale at your price, well, ok that could be a wrinkle. I recall in my case they just gave one of their other agents the buyer side. Again, I didn't care. Depending on the broker / agent's attitude I would tell them I am self-represented, and hey, if they have a slightly underwater seller they can make a deal by decreasing the 6% commission since there is no 'other side' to pay.

But, people in CA are IMO kooky about this. The agents will tell you it's somehow unethical or they won't 'take the risk'. Really they are just protecting their little monopoly. Buyers here seem to think you need the buyer agent to 'protect your interests' but I am comfortable protecting my own. CA agents will lead you to believe they are real estate lawyers, know things no one else does, have information you can't get anywhere else, etc. I do my own research and have yet to meet a RE agent who actually helped much.

That said I would certainly use one *if* they actually helped me find what I wanted, gave me useful insight, acted as my proxy in negotiations, etc.

If I buy in CA (still not sure I will), I am going to look at redfin for sure.

pkowen says

I didn’t care one bit since the seller pays

that's debatable, LOL. The seller may pay the intermediaries, but who's paying the seller?

If it's listed with an agent, the agent will get paid. You could see if the selling agent will reduce the commission - but you're stuck paying a commission. And - the buyer does pay the agent, but the seller pays a higher price so the seller really pays for it. IMHO, of course.

It appears that you don't like the house otherwise you would have just offered the extra $15k. And on $500k, $15k is not that much. Perhaps you should find another house that you like better.

"They don’t have to keep the full 6%. For example, in the above situation, to get the deal done, they could rebate 3% to the seller and still keep 3%."

No they can't. Each agent has to give a percentage of their commission to their broker. If they rebated 3%, they would end up making 0.

HousingWatcher says

It appears that you don’t like the house otherwise you would have just offered the extra $15k. And on $500k, $15k is not that much. Perhaps you should find another house that you like better.

I love how everyone says this. If $15k isn't that much, please send a check for that amount to:
my name @ my address. For some reason, I doubt you'll be sending the check.

HousingWatcher says

“They don’t have to keep the full 6%. For example, in the above situation, to get the deal done, they could rebate 3% to the seller and still keep 3%.”
No they can’t. Each agent has to give a percentage of their commission to their broker. If they rebated 3%, they would end up making 0.

Maybe it wasn't clear above, but if there is only one agent involved (just the listing agent), then he will get his typical 3%. The 3% that would normally go to the buyer's agent, would go to the sellers. Nothing changes for the listing agent.

What makes you so sure the agents are getting 6%. Most agents I've hired have taken only 4-5 percent.

HousingWatcher says

What makes you so sure the agents are getting 6%. Most agents I’ve hired have taken only 4-5 percent.

Are you saying 4-5% each or total? It seems pretty standard around here that each gets 3%.

No total. So 2.5% each.

HousingWatcher says

No total. So 2.5% each.

It depends on what the agent was able to negotiate. I've seen it generally ranged from 2.5/3.0%

I've seen one that was 2% but it's probably because the flipper seller made a bad investment. He wouldn't even break even had the agent taken anymore.

I've seen mobile homes sold for flat rate commissions ($3000 or so) regardless of what the sale price is.

15,000 is alot, maybe 80/month for 30 years

Why not have everyone chip in. Home owners could drop it 5K, both agents 3K off and maybe you could muster up 4K.

If you're having issues with 3% of the sale price, I think it's time for everyone to toss a bit into the pot to make it happen.

How about a guy puts a for sale on his lawn and go knock on his door?

We're such a KY jelly culture.

Man, here in Belgium a buyer's agent does not exist but a sellers agent does. They ask around 3% but some you can negotiate the price down.

I am planning to sell a property but am not planning to use an agent, just sell directly to the buyer from owner, like Patrick advised!

Thanks for the great website.

How about asking the owner when their listing agreement ends. How long has the house been on the market? Check that against the prevailing listing agreement duration.

You could then do the deal as for sale by owner. Just wait it out until the sycophants are gone.