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Liberal perspective on Obama, Democrats, and ... liberalism


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2011 Aug 8, 8:31am   2,339 views  9 comments

by MattBayArea   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

People argue about things without defining the terms. If you don't use agreed upon terms, then you may as well not bother talking at all.

Example:
I say conservatives are pro-rape. Let's jail all of our republicans!

This does not work. Simply because there are people who could be construed to fall under the 'conservative' banner in *some* context in some backward nation where rape is considered an appropriate punishment for, say, not covering enough of your body in cloth while in public, does not mean that republicans in the USA who call themselves 'conservative' support this.

That's an obvious one, but it's less obvious when we talk about typical issues in US politics.

Looks to me like there's some confusion about 'liberals'. On the one hand there are people who are labeled 'liberal' by other people. Then we have people who label themselves liberal. Let's clarify by going straight to the heart of the matter - Patrick.net may not be a perfect representation of the US liberal population but it may still provide useful information.

So, Liberals ONLY (ie, please don't post her Shrek! Instead, make another thread just like this for conservatives/bush/republicans), what is YOUR opinion of Obama and, separately, Democrats in general?

I think he's going to steal from the rich and give it all to me through gubment handouts. Then I can retire and live the fat life without ever working! Ah, the liberal ideals ...

Kidding of course.

My opinion:
Obama - He talks the talks that us liberals like - by supporting gays in the military, by criticizing non-defensive wars, by talking about reforming the sad state of health insurance in this country, by supporting stem cell research, and by supporting abortion.
In reality: Why aren't our troops at home, either as civilians or doing public works projects? Why did it take so long to allow gays to openly serve ... maybe there's a good reason to take our time on this one. Why didn't he take a hard stand on health care - he went in with good ideas, but in the ends the republicans seemed to get what they wanted, and I feel more screwed than ever. And WTF is up with all these bailouts? Let these failed companies die quickly - take that bailout money and use it to temporarily employ the people who lose their job in some public works programs. If you're going to save any company, a car manuf is a good company to save though - I think it's worthwhile to do this, provided there are no executives who take home pay (fire them and take their salary from the last few years for all I care - provided they have more than 1m in assets, they can afford to get screwed to save the company they ran into the ground). I'm sure it's more complicated than all of this, but I haven't seen good excuses for these failures.
The above also reflects the *general* opinion of *every* self-identified liberal friend I've had political talks with.
The above in a nutshell: We're disappointed but still hoping because there's not much left to do

Democrats: There are exceptions, but what 'democrat' goes to the voting booth thinking that he's voting for someone with a real sense of ethics? I always feel like I'm voting for the wolf-in-sheep-clothing who will at least espouse, and perhaps even pursue, a few things that are important for me. Democratic candidates don't oppose a womans right to an abortion and in my lifetime have seemed to be slightly less war-hungry. Slightly! I'm finding it hard to say anything else very nice about this party.

And finally, my own definition of liberalism in our culture (perhaps I'm using the wrong word?):

A political philosophy marked by a desire to see the following -

*free access to equal, QUALITY education for all young adults and children. Nothing here says the rich can't hire private teachers to get the absolute best - but let's not short change all the poor black kids simply because we shortchanged their black parents, who we shortchanged simply of THEIR black parents, who we shortchanged even after we stopped enslaving them. Poor neighborhood should not equal poor education and a quick trip to a life of poverty. There may not be an easy and fair solution, but we have to solve this. This is not about people 'getting what they deserve', it is about making future generations more functional - and it will surely involve giving extra to people who don't seem to deserve it (and really don't - you may be a product of your childhood, but that won't change the fact that you're a crappy parent, if you are one - and it doesn't change the fact that we as a society benefit from changing this self-perpetuating situation).

*free access to basic health care for all. (keyword - basic - no one is saying the homeless guy should have wads of hundred dollar bills spent on him to help him deal with his arthritis or for ED medication)

*freedom from racism, sexism, religious oppression (including forfeiture of a right to an abortion - this is a religious issue in my mind, I've never met a non-christian who opposed abortion, though surely some exist)

*fair taxation, meaning you are taxed in some way related to your benefits from society. How this is accomplished is debatable but in general I think liberals agree that there are far too many loopholes that allow rich people and corps to greedily pocket an even larger percentage of their money. As a middle class person, I don't feel that the burden of my taxes on my is too large. Why can't rich people pay at least the same percentage of their capital gains that I pay on my hard earned salary, if not much more? After all, profit made on investments is entirely different from profit made on hard labor. Give me a million dollars to invest and I can turn a sizable profit - without quitting my day job or giving up my evening hobbies.

* Freedom of political expression (not incl comments that call for violence - let the KKK rally but wait on the sidelines and jail them when they say that people who kill black people). We already have this, though some fear our freedom is being eroded.

* Freedom to bear arms. We already have it - so liberals don't talk about it much. But I've never ever met a liberal person who wanted to ban guns, aside from things like RPGs and automatic weapons. On handguns, we can all agree. I think liberals are OK with waiting periods and background checks and restrictions on convicted violent criminals.

* Equal representation. This is a complicated issue, and rarely talked about in these terms. And it ties in with other topics. It's worth mentioning, however, that 'liberals' don't want corporations controlling politics.

* Environmental justice. I don't think liberals could agree on much here, other than the overall goal. Some of us support nuclear, some oppose, some support oil drilling, some only support responsible oil drilling, no one is really comfortable with the idea of companies being able to dump toxic waste into a river that other people drink from, though.

_______________________________________

Anyway, that's how I would define these terms and rate these political parties. Perhaps other people can contribute to this with their own liberal perspectives. Then, when an internet troll says something like 'liberals just want to take money from the hard-working rich and successful so they don't have to work', we can point to this thread and say 'no, you dumbass, you are thinking of HOME BURGLARS not liberals'.

#politics

Comments 1 - 9 of 9        Search these comments

1   MattBayArea   2011 Aug 8, 8:34am  

And now the TL;DR version:
1) If you find yourself saying 'liberals this' or 'conservatives that' you could probably do better by being more specific and not using 'conservatives' or 'liberals' but instead individual people.
2) Don't post her Shrek & others (you know who you are!), please. Start a new thread! Please.

2   simchaland   2011 Aug 8, 9:34am  

Wow, the troll otherwise known as Shrek just couldn't resist the bait.

Matt, if you really don't want Shrek to post in your thread, you certainly won't get anywhere asking him not to post in your thread.

So, to me it looks like you are baiting Shrek and he bit, hook, line, and sinker! :) He's so predictable.
Well done Matt.

3   FortWayne   2011 Aug 8, 9:59am  

Conservative perspective - Obama is a socialist.

4   elliemae   2011 Aug 8, 3:31pm  

yawn.

5   Vicente   2011 Aug 8, 3:48pm  

FortWayne says

Conservative perspective - Obama is a socialist.

Man you're just phoning 'em in lately. It's sad to watch a troll unable to even come up with a creative Obama reference. Come on use "Obambi" wait no that's Shrek's thing. Perhaps Obozo could be your shtick.

6   marcus   2011 Aug 8, 6:47pm  

Good job Matt, I agree with you pretty much. You're right about the words liberal and conservative. I like to say that I'm conservative in many ways, because technically I am, but politically I am certainly on the liberal side of our center which seems kind of empty these days.

I think that our free and varied media choices are kind of screwing us over. In the days of "the fairness doctrine" everyone had to listen to both sides of the debate. Now, too many people just go listen to the media that supports their views. In extreme cases, a significant part of our population wants to listen to entertainment that is highly biased, and sometimes outright dishonest, instead of an honest deep look at both sides.

There's so much fear out there, with people disagreeing about what the biggest things are for us to be afraid of. I wouldn't want to just have pbs news, or even to go back to the day of just a few networks. But the media, our so called fourth as it is now, isn't working.

7   marcus   2011 Aug 8, 6:56pm  

How do we get to this place?

This guy Chaffetz, Sunday morning on "This Week" insisting that the Tea Party's "Cut Cap and Balance" legislation was a compromise, because it raised the debt ceiling.

That's what they were willing to give, raising the debt ceiling.

short 90 second video.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/taxonomy/term/22642

And as a sign of where we are at, it's not clear yet that these guys will earn the disrespect they deserve, because of a serious propaganda machine behind them.

"Wait a minute," former Obama administration "Car Czar" Steve Rattner interrupted. "'Cut, Cap and Balance' was not a compromise."

"Yes, it was," Chaffetz replied. "It was a raising of the debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion. And what is wrong in this country is that we aren't willing to have the discussion about a balanced budget amendment."

8   bdrasin   2011 Aug 8, 10:38pm  

I think Obama is a not all that ideological, and tries to build consensus based on what (in this case congress/senate) already want rather than pushing a particular political agenda. I don't think he'd be an enemy of genuinely progressive politics but he won't aggressively fight for it either. If we want a liberal revolution we'll have to fight for it ourselves; so far the record is not encouraging.

9   MisdemeanorRebel   2011 Aug 9, 1:36am  

marcus says

In the days of "the fairness doctrine" everyone had to listen to both sides of the debate.

Marcus, that's actually par for the course. The 1950s-1980 pre-Cable Network "Fairness" era was an anomaly. That fairness was often a joke as "extreme" opinions weren't presented at all. Who defines what's "extreme" anyway?

Prior to that, people read papers which had a tremendous slant one way or the other, and even small papers had a multitude of daily papers, some with AM and PM editions.

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