patrick.net

My home would sell for about 20% less today than it would have in 2006. That's an educated guess based on some research. Not based on any appraisal in 2006 or now.

But I have not lost anything. I still have the home I lived in in 2006. I did not have that 20% fictional value anywhere in actual money. And since I've lived here 20+ years, my mortgage balance is based on a 1990 purchase price. Value drop does not bother me as it would someone who has a 2006 mortgage on a 2011 value home.

Michigana - are you serious? Two years of Property taxes and insurance in Japan are only $500 each? Wow.

Payoff2011 says

Two years of Property taxes and insurance in Japan are only $500 each? Wow.

Probably doesn't include earthquake insurance tho. EQ insurance is something of a scam, it'll only pay 40% of the replacement cost -- any temblor strong enough to take out any random condo in Tokyo would be strong enough to take all of them out so insurance companies have statutory damage limits.

Plus interest rates are like ~1% the first 10 years, and ~2.5% thereafter.

I am reasonably fluent in Japanese so consider it a possible bug-out place, but man does its macro situation bother me. Not the aging problem -- their baby boom was actually only a 5 year thing not the two-decade monster ours is -- just the fact that their current economy is predicated on selling 44 trillion/yr of JGBs, that's $18,000 per working man aged 30-64, or 10% of GDP, about what we're running ATM.

Call me naive, but I think if Japan was actually taxing that $18,000 extra to balance the budget things would be a lot better, and a lot different.

Troy says

I’ve lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

I guess paying for shelter, The most basic of human needs, is wasted money if you rent?

IMO you've only lost what you paid in excess of a basic shelter you silly humans.

America I want my language back!

look these up in a dictionary folks.

homeowner
wasted
asset
liability
insolvent

don't let them steal your words too!

Payoff2011 says

Michigana - are you serious? Two years of Property taxes and insurance in Japan are only $500 each? Wow.

It is like 0.1~0.3% or so of government/city assessed value which is about 60~80% or so of market price. Not only Japan, but few other asian countries are like that. How they manage it with such low tax is amazing, but how US always mess thing up with 10X more tax is even more amazing.

Troy says

Call me naive, but I think if Japan was actually taxing that $18,000 extra to balance the budget things would be a lot better, and a lot different.

Japanese government certainly can do that if they have to, but I can hardly think that's gonna happen. They are too chicken to do something like that especially situation like that. If it actually happens, there must be few disembowelments.

Katy Perry says

Troy says

I’ve lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

I guess paying for shelter, The most basic of human needs, is wasted money if you rent?
IMO you’ve only lost what you paid in excess of a basic shelter you silly humans.
America I want my language back!
look these up in a dictionary folks.
homeowner
wasted
asset
liability
insolvent
don’t let them steal your words too!

One more:

sarcasm

I am just guessing but I would be down about $20k based on a recent appraisal. I was looking at converting a line of credit into a HELOC for a low interest rate and tax benefit. The bank departments fought between each other about the value. I had used them to build the home with about 1/3 down. It would be a little more if you counted tap in fees, and upgrades during the construction process.

The guy that came out to value it seems to me to have come up blank. At the end of the tour he asked me point blank what the contract price was and the land cost. I gave him all accurate figures that did not count the extras and his estimate was exactly spot on. The bank did finally agree to the loan conversion but at a higher rate than I have now and lower credit limit.

I think I will pass at making the current line of credit a secured loan at a higher interest rate :)

I guess I will have to save on the utilities instead. The average Heating Degree Day monthly total for the last 3 months has been about 1100 HDD/month. My highest gas bill was about $100 with a thermostat setting of 75 F. While the average temperature outside has been in the low 20's, I have stayed comfortable.

Payoff2011, yes, property taxes are that low. They're actually 1.4% of assessed value, but buildings are considered to be depreciating assets, and mine (built 1970) has been depreciating for a very long time, by Tokyo standards.

Seaside, a lot of the things that are funded using property taxes in the US (such as schools) are funded by local income taxes in Japan, which can be as high as 10% of your income. So I'm paying several thousand dollars to my municipality whether I own property or not. I must confess that I like this system better. You're still "renting" your home from the government, but as the cost of a few days' wages per year!

Troy, my insurance actually incudes earthquakes, and I'm insured for much more than the government-calculated value of my home. But I think that everybody knows that if an earthquake is big enough to destroy your home, it's big enough to destroy *everyone's*, and your insurer will be out of business and you won't see a dime. It's the fire and structural insurance that matters -- we've already had a problem with the pipes above our room, and while that was the neighbor's problem, my insurance company even paid a small "condolence bonus" to compensate for the disruption to our lives caused by the pipe problems.

At the height of the bubble my house would sell for around $325k (based on realtors hounding me as they drove by and comps nearby). Now I could sell for around $160k. So I've lost more than alot.

However, I still have about $35k in equity (altho that's deteriorating as we speak)... My payment is about $400 less than I'd pay if I were renting - it's hard to find rentals for livestock. Elliemae is more than just my fake name.

Troy says

I’ve lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

I can top that. Renting for 10 years, $250k & counting ;)
However, I may have lost even more in an "opportunity cost" by sitting in cash for about 5 of those 10 years.
Basically, I am too conservative with money to be an investor.

TechGromit says

Syphilis says

interest payments+property taxes(minus deductions) and home insurance would also be sunk costs.

The same argument could be said about renting and renters insurance, neither one of those built any equity for you either.

Renters insurance is like $15 a month!! My equity from renting is in my savings account and 401k!!

I bought in July of last year for $165K. I guess I have lost about $5,000 considering comps around me. Zillow actually thinks I have gained in value though. My payment is much less than renting due to $20,000 down at purchase.

Los Angeles Renter says

TechGromit says

Syphilis says

interest payments+property taxes(minus deductions) and home insurance would also be sunk costs.

The same argument could be said about renting and renters insurance, neither one of those built any equity for you either.

Renters insurance is like $15 a month!! My equity from renting is in my savings account and 401k!!

You forgot to add the negative equity to your savings(and its returns), that you saved by not going under water.

We bought in March 2010 for $152K. First home. Considering the $8K tax refund it was $144K. Zillow now estimates $140K. No comparable sales at the moment.

i've only been renting all of these years, and i calculated that my monthly rent is

continued...

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

Bingo we have a winner.

I lost $112800 renting for ten years. Perhaps factoring in that savings at the end of ten years in to owning my house, will be an eye opener.
In another 9 years, I'll add 112800 to the value of my house, and see where I stand.

I have owned and now rent. It's more important for me to be mobile than to compare the cost of owning vs. renting. If I need to move for a new job out of state, very easy to do. My property owner just replaced the water heater for $1,800 and will need a new roof in a few years. Glad I don't have to set aside savings for that and other unexpected repairs.

I owned for about 8 years, cost me about 30k + 25k or so in property taxes, not including loan interest, needed to put up another 10k for maintenance, so I sold it. Figured I could live somewhere else cheaper.

How much have I lost
in real estate? nothing because I only sell when I dont lose money.

in the stock market? well, lets not talk about that...

TPB says

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

Bingo we have a winner.

I lost $112800 renting for ten years. Perhaps factoring in that savings at the end of ten years in to owning my house, will be an eye opener.

In another 9 years, I'll add 112800 to the value of my house, and see where I stand.

William E Baughb

How is it that you are adding value to your home? I don't understand.

$100k for 14 years renting

cry ...

Yep, it's sad how an entire generation has lost so much renting from the Baby Boomers because of the housing bubble. Still, I'm glad I didn't buy during the bubble and lose more.

There should be a "Protect Renters from Ass Fucking Act" or PRAFA to pay back responsible renters $20k/yr for each year they rented in the past 14 years to make up for the government's prolonging of the bubble and the correction. And it should continue until the bubble finally completely deflates. Funny how that kind of stimulus would never get passed.

I will lose US$300 staying in a hotel during the weekend; or should I say I will spend US$300 staying in a hotel during the weekend?

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

BusniessLogic says

I will lose US$300 staying in a hotel during the weekend; or should I say I will spend US$300 staying in a hotel during the weekend?

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

Realtards use inflammatory language. It's the nature of a salesman to prey on emotions. Now you know that you can disregard any posters using Pravda esque
statements like this since they are basically outing themselves as real estate agents

maxweber says

how much have you lost?

Why would a looser admit that?

.

By the way paying to live somewhere is not losing money
Just like buying lunch is not losing money its just a question of how much it costs you.

Stock market is different there you can actually lose money and get nothing in return

toothfairy says

By the way paying to live somewhere is not losing money
Just like buying lunch is not losing money its just a question of how much it costs you.
Stock market is different there you can actually lose money and get nothing in return

I'm very surpised to read this post from you since I've never once seen you say its better to rent than to buy, even when commenting on areas where in an apples to apples rent:buy comparisons renting was 25-50% cheaper than buying.

dodgerfanjohn says

toothfairy says

By the way paying to live somewhere is not losing money

Just like buying lunch is not losing money its just a question of how much it costs you.

Stock market is different there you can actually lose money and get nothing in return

I'm very surpised to read this post from you since I've never once seen you say its better to rent than to buy, even when commenting on areas where in an apples to apples rent:buy comparisons renting was 25-50% cheaper than buying.

Well that's because I dont think it's better to rent.
It may be cheaper to rent but that's only in the short run. I dont think renting is the same as "losing" money though it's more like wasting money that could go towards buying.

If it were an apple to apple comparison cheaper to rent then I'd go buy somewhere else. You wont convince me that renting in Menlo Park for $4k per month is a good good deal because it's cheaper than buying the same house. No I would just go buy somewhere else.

I dont see why that's so hard to understand.

i've "lost" a little over 50K in the past ten years of renting, but i still feel i'm ahead. right now, my monthly rent is

I've lost 67,200 because I owned instead of renting. My mistake was buying at the absolute top of the bubble and paying ridiculous HOA fees for a shitty condo back in 2004. The rent vs own had a difference of about $1,400 a month x 4 years.

(I learned the hard way, saved for 4 years and now have a house that I can rent for what my mortgage is.)

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

how much did you lose dining out instead of growing your own garden and herding your own goats?

Never lost a dime. Made my $$$ as a landlord and franchise operator .

Â¥ says

I've lost $97,080 renting over the past 5 years.

Because I rented over the last 3 years in the BA, I estimate I grew my wealth by at least 2X. My $2000/mth savings for 3 years has benefited from the market comeback story of my lifetime and the housing (which I plan to buy in the next 1-2 years) has dropped considerably. At least a 100% gain in stocks over the last 3 years, and a 30-35% better leverage on a SFH. All things going in the correct direction if you ask me.

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Because I rented over the last 3 years in the BA, I estimate I grew my wealth by at least 2X.

That is dam good. You might should look into a Tutti Fruiti franchise. I own 2 now but want 12.

http://www.tuttifruttifranchise.com/

Whether you are craving out for a regular breakfast or simply with a delightful montage of fruit, you would surely be amazed every time by the originality of its menu.

What about reduced interest and dividend income?