patrick.net

CaptainShuddup says

It's not the stories it's the graphic depiction. If you don't think there's a huge difference in writing on a papyrus "Then Odysseus smite the Cyclops"...

From Beowulf.

"If Grendel wins, it will be a gruesome day;
he will glut himself on the Geats in the war-hall,
swoop without fear on that flower of manhood
as on others before. Then my face won't be there
to be covered in death: he will carry me away
as he goes to ground, gorged and bloodied;
he will run gloating with my raw corpse
and feed on it alone, in a cruel frenzy,
fouling his moor-nest." (442-450)

It is the culture too. When you combine individualism with slave-morality (Nietzsche) you have an extreme form of the me-against-the-world mentality.

Alas, God is dead, we have killed him.

Real individualists respect other people as individuals.

What about the First Amendment? I want to see pictures of the inside of the Sandy Hook School on CNN 24 hours a day and on the front page of every newspaper!

boldej says

What about the First Amendment? I want to see pictures of the inside of the Sandy Hook School on CNN 24 hours a day and on the front page of every newspaper!

That is not the freedom of SPEECH. You do not have a RIGHT to the "speech" made by others

For example, you do not have the right to see the inside of a movie theater unless you have bought a ticket.

The NRA is 100% right.

Armed guards are the only way to keep people from being killed.

Feeding records of those who were determined to be dangers to themselves or others, incompetent to manage their own affairs, or involuntarily committed following due process (where they had time to contest the charges, were allowed legal representation, and the matter was decided by a judge) to the National Instant Check System is the only way to limit such peoples' purchase of firearms through legal channels.

Guns . . . the cause of and the solution to all our problems.

You'd almost think the NRA was front organization for gun and ammo manufacturers.

Was there ever a National Cigarette Organization???

La Pierre is the most dangerous person in the country. The mother of every child that dies with a gun should slap him.
Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

That's not possible.

Jamaica tried with handguns in 1974. They looked for guns with warrantless searches, created special gun courts, had secret trials, and imposed mandatory life sentences for possession.

Their murder rate skyrocketed to 60 per 100,000 following the ban.

NRA did make a great suggestion here. And it's something the left won't care to listen too when they are too busy scoring political points.

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

FortWayne says

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

Our schools do not need guns, Columbine had security, made no difference. You want to scare the kids, create a greater culture of fear starting with 5yr olds?

What's wrong with you?

Ban assault rifles, stop deflecting.

Sign this petition

http://www.demandaplan.org/

The only jerk here is you!

Don't like the idea of armed policemen at the schools. Instead have 3-4 guns, in lock boxes at the school where 3-4 highly vetted employees are selected, trained, and licensed to have access to the guns strictly for instances of gun violence. Really not that difficult, in fact it is already commonplace at schools across the country.

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons nor is it a good idea for many other reasons. But having a handful of people trained and certified to use guns in this extremely rare instance is part of the answer.

121212 says

FortWayne says

We guard our airports, we guard our banks, we have TSA, why not our children? We need a real solution to real problems in today's world, not the left wing knee jerk political reactions to score political points by instituting some sort of a ban that the left is screaming for.

Our schools do not need guns, Columbine had security, made no difference. You want to scare the kids, create a greater culture of fear starting with 5yr olds?

What's wrong with you?

Ban assault rifles, stop deflecting.

Sign this petition

http://www.demandaplan.org/

The only jerk here is you!

The Clinton ban ran 1994-2004.

Columbine happened in 1999 in _spite_ of the ban with one of the shooters using a so-called "Feinstein Special" as an alternative to the "assault weapon" formerly produced by its manufacturer.

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children. As a country that can give people nearing the end of their lives Medicare Part D for $100 billion a year we should be able to come up with 1/5th that amount for people with their entire lives ahead of them

drew_eckhardt says

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children.

Schools are big. A gunman could easily come through one end, start shooting and by the time the officer gets there, a 100 kids could be dead.
If you want the success other countries have in controlling gun massacres, we have to do what they do.
And we all know what they do.

drew_eckhardt says

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

That's not possible.

Jamaica tried with handguns in 1974. They looked for guns with warrantless searches, created special gun courts, had secret trials, and imposed mandatory life sentences for possession.

Their murder rate skyrocketed to 60 per 100,000 following the ban.

These are cherry picked statistics. If you cherry pick enough, you could even prove the world is flat.
Lets do what the rest of the developed world does and ban these "weapons of mass slaughter" We don't live in the wild west anymore, we live in a civilized space age.

IDDQD says

Raw says

Mr. La Pierre.......The ONLY thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy who takes away all the guns.

... i.e. "good guy" with even more and bigger guns?

Good guys like President Obama who has the solution to a very serious problem.

IDDQD says

Raw says

Good guys like President Obama who has the solution to a very serious problem.

And what exactly is his solution for stopping school massacres? AWB again? Weak. He has no fresh ideas, just same old failed DiFi crap.

His solution is to start banning assault weapons.
Look at it this way....If there are no guns, no one can die with guns. Am I wrong?

IDDQD says

Raw says

His solution is to start banning assault weapons.

This is the old DiFi crap that already once failed to prevent school shootings. I asked about fresh ideas to stop them. Apparently he has none.

Look at it this way....If there are no guns, no one can die with guns. Am I wrong?

This is material for "Miss Universe" pageant speech, not for serious discussion.

Let's get back to question at hand: Obama's fresh and realistic ideas to stop school massacres once and for all.

So what solutions did that crazy La Pierre offer? More guns. Really? Is this a joke?
That's like trying to cure a heroine addict with a lot more heroine.

The point the NRA missed was that the 2nd Amendment calls for a well regulate militia.

We called out the National Guard to fight in Iraq, but I think they would have better served as home defence.

THe NRA could have asked for militia training that would augment the police department with volunteers, They could provide gun traing, and safety, they could have offered logistical support.

They could have pointed to the National Guard as a starting point. The could have offered proactive solutions that would help safe guard out streets, schools, and neighborhoods.

Alright, you may not like the idea, but it would have established a dialog.

What I took away from today's press statement is they are giving commands, looking for monsters, and blaming every one. There was nothing positive in what they said, and then they slinked off, once again, behind closed doors.

Who doesn't have a proclivity to addiction to opiates?

Obviously you've just never had the opportunity to get down like charlie brown. Pussy

I can't believe some of the idiocy here. Armed guards in schools? Seriously? What happens when a shooter targets a Chuck E Cheese? Wait, that happened. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-foltzsmith/shadows_b_1693613.html

Are you going to have armed guards at every playground, little league ballpark, ice rink, and every other place kids congregate?

Drew_eckhardt, I bet you got your analogy about Jamaica from John Lott in this piece: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/25/john-lott-kingston-jamaica-murder-gun-ban-violence-chicago-washington/

The guy is a total hack. Watched him on CNN the other night, lying through his teeth about gun violence in the UK. I can recite legitimate stats from the UK, Japan, and Australia that show gun violence falling off a cliff when strict gun control was implemented.

I have fired lots of guns in my life, family owned a rifle, and believe bolt action rifles are fine to own.

When are people going to realize the NRA is out of control, are spokesmen for the gun manufacturers, and are using people as pawns under the guise of the Second Amendment? They are literally making a killing.

Why don't we just give the $20 billion to schools directly and outlaw assault weapons and any clips over 5 rounds?

I thought you meant the National Realtor Association.

Waitingtobuy says

I can't believe some of the idiocy here. Armed guards in schools? Seriously?

There was a paid armed Sheriff's deputy "guarding" Columbine. Let's see how well that fantasy of perfect protection worked out shall we?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Even assuming the deputies in the immediate vicinity were in the building, how likely is it that in a large high school with 2,000 or more students they'd have been in the right positions to do the right thing at a crucial early moment?

drew_eckhardt says

Rent4Ever says

It is not practical to have cops in every school for budgetary reasons

Wrong.

For the 2009-2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools in America.

At a fully burdened cost of $200K per officer (including pension, etc.) it would only cost $20 billion a year to have one present at each school during the day.

Paid for with federal money it'd only be a 0.7% increase in our budget which is a small price to pay for the children. As a country that can give people nearing the end of their lives Medicare Part D for $100 billion a year we should be able to come up with 1/5th that amount for people with their entire lives ahead of them

20 Billion dollars is 20 Billion dollars. Nothing to sneeze at. You may think that is an efficient use of those funds, but many others will not. The budgetary aspect is only part of the problem. I also do not think that simply having ONE armed person at the school is enough. There needs to be multiple people with access to firearms and their identities need to be kept hidden. In other words, the public needs to know that every public school has a handful of employees with access to firearms in the school, and they won't be wearing a hat and uniform showing the world that they are the ones with the guns. Plus it doesn't flaunt the guns presence in the school nor create the type of atmosphere that many are afraid of.

Guns are a deterrent for violence when 1) There are guns that can be used against the criminal 2) It is not known where the guns are and who has them. #1 prevents a certain % of wackos from even trying to do something like Newtown at a school. #2 allows for the most efficient way to stop a wacko once he's already begun in the school.

David Losh says

We can have a more secure gun policy in this country, but it has to start with the people involved. Today's statement was just absolute nonsense.

He also heavily blamed MSM and entertainment industry for this culture of violence. I happen to agree with him on that one.

121212 says

Our schools do not need guns, Columbine had security, made no difference.

But the Aurora shooter picked up that particular movie theater because it had a Gun Free Zone sign on it. There were other, bigger, closer to him places and he went for that one for a reason.
Even Newton shooter stopped and put a bullet into his own head only when he saw that a police is coming. He would continue otherwise.

David Losh says

THe NRA could have asked for militia training that would augment the police department with volunteers, They could provide gun traing, and safety, they could have offered logistical support.

They could only present the idea of security for school. How you want to administer it is up to politicians.

Waitingtobuy says

The guy is a total hack. Watched him on CNN the other night, lying through his teeth about gun violence in the UK. I can recite legitimate stats from the UK, Japan, and Australia that show gun violence falling off a cliff when strict gun control was implemented.

John Lott was correct, he wrote a book, so he needed data to support it.

I found this for you from a different source.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-15/newtown-shooter-had-asperger-syndrome-and-some-us-gun-facts

At the bottom it states that:

...the homicide rate in England and Wales has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban.

The NRA dropped the ball on this one. Take the negotiating and hard line stance behind closed doors. Besides, why is the NRA the only organization expected to speak out on this topic.

Why wasn't the American Psychiatric Association expected to speak out about the failure of their profession in mis-prescribing anti-depressants and other drugs that play a role in the behavior of these psychopathic killers. A gun + a nearby school does not equate to a massacre. One missing piece of this puzzle is drug company lobbyists who guarantee a steady flow of unnecessary, dangerous, yet legal, drugs into our society.

rrrrrrrr says

Why wasn't the American Psychiatric Association expected to speak out

APA is not responsible for state's issues.

Connecticut makes it nearly impossible, like many states, to commit someone until they commit murder. And even when you get through the paperwork the "loony bins" have 99% been closed down. Oh right STATE'S RIGHTS it's their RIGHT to cut services and dump the results on the community.

rrrrrrrr says

The NRA dropped the ball on this one. Take the negotiating and hard line stance behind closed doors. Besides, why is the NRA the only organization expected to speak out on this topic.

Why wasn't the American Psychiatric Association expected to speak out about the failure of their profession in mis-prescribing anti-depressants and other drugs that play a role in the behavior of these psychopathic killers. A gun + a nearby school does not equate to a massacre. One missing piece of this puzzle is drug company lobbyists who guarantee a steady flow of unnecessary, dangerous, yet legal, drugs into our society.

The issues are so complex. Much to the chagrin of the public, there is no one action or simple explanation to what happened in Newtown. Banning guns, committing every mentally ill person against their will, or anything in between will not stop this from happening in the future. Sometimes things just happen and there isn't an answer/explanation/solution for everything.

The NRA addressed today's hot topic of guns with putting armed police in the schools, and having a National data base of the mentally ill.

Well, that's today's topic, that's what's in the news, and that is as far as the NRA has addressed.

The facts are that there are millions of guns, and millions of people have guns. You never know when some one will become mentally ill, and snap.

Having a national data base for the mentally ill is like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.

Having a police officer in every school doesn't address the mall shootings, or the person who decides to kill everybody who slighted him at his favorite bar.

What the National Rifle Association should have said is we need more people who know how to use guns, who are trained to use guns, and who want to become involved with good gun ownership.

Banning guns isn't a solution in this country, we have the right to bear arms. The part every one ignores is the part about a well regulated militia.

A well regulated militia could patrol high crime areas, they could patrol schools, they could become a useful part of our society.

You have to face the fact the last gun ban was a disaster. As we are debating real nut jobs are hiding weapons from the government, and the prying eyes of you, the neighbor, the enemy.

A gun ban, and talk of a gun ban is creating a hysteria among the very people we would probably want to be able to see, and dialog with.

Open communication, open debate, and education about guns is a far more workable solution here.

Those of you suggesting guns, and especially multiple guards at schools, have probably not spent much time involved with schools. (it's also likely you don't have kids either, but that's another subject). Not only is it a ridiculous idea, but where would you get the money for all of this? We barely have money to run our schools as it is. You also ignored my question about putting guards in every place kids congregate.

The US averages 200 gun deaths per week. That is like a 767 going down EVERY week. Think we would shake our heads and say there is nothing we can do about it?

My wife is from overseas and can't even believe we are having these "conversations". She, and nearly every person I've talked to from outside the US,thinks this is idiotic. Do you all realize how foolish this makes Americans look? How can we go to a place like Yemen and teach them about democracy, laws, etc. They are shaking their heads. Even the conservative editorial board of my town's newspaper thinks this is lunacy.

The majority of Americans want tighter gun restrictions, outlawing assault weapons and 30 round clips. We are literally being held hostage by a loudmouthed group of insecure people (mostly men) who maybe number 15% of the population and just love their guns...and the child killing industry.

Also to address the problem if who would guard the schools , how about retirees? Old folks have the experience in life and the commitment to protecting their grandchildren necessary to turn a low paying guard post into a life mission. Those that have the training to properly handle firearms could be considered.

School board hiring practices? Seriously? I've seen firsthand how they hire....you don't want them or the administrators in many districts hiring security.

As for guards, why don't all of you suggesting guards and NRA members be the first volunteering your time if you think it is a good idea? No, you like to push your ideas on to others. Like retirees. I want my kids protected by 80 yr old gramps carrying a .45, at the same time he is wearing his Depends.

Are you guys serious? Are you being paid by the NRA and Heritage Foundation to post this crap?

Call it Crazy says

Waitingtobuy says

The US averages 200 gun deaths per week.

How many of those each week are kids in a school?

Waitingtobuy says

The majority of Americans want tighter gun restrictions, outlawing assault weapons and 30 round clips.

Your "assault weapons" make up 1% of all firearms in the country. What are you going to do about the other 99%?

How many killings do they add up to? How about 10+ round clips? Three state police were shot and 4 people were killed yesterday in PA. Two police in Topeka the other day. The criminals weren't likely using a .38.

During the previous assault weapons ban, killings involving them went down 60%. What about that stat?

We need lots of armed guards AND lots more PRAYING at schools ... that way if the guards fail at least the dead kids will end up in heaven.

CaptainShuddup says

If the NRA cared about the 2nd Amendment they would have put assault rifles into the hands of EVERY black man in America

I think a lot of you missed this point about the NRA.

The NRA did support gun control: Considerable credit for that, surprisingly, belongs to the Black Panther Party. In the late 1960s, civil rights radicals took up arms as part of the "by any means necessary" philosophy. In an often forgotten incident, 30 armed Panthers invaded the California state capital building to protest enactment of new gun laws.

As long as gun control meant keeping guns out of the hands of minorities it seemed like a good idea.

However the Founding father also saw a need to restrict gun ownership: The founders barred large portions of the population from possessing guns, including slaves and free blacks, who might revolt if armed.

Last, but not least the militia did have requirements: Men over the age of 18 were expected to serve in the citizen militia, armed and ready to defend the nation. They would be forced to appear, with guns in hand, at public musters where they and their guns would be inspected. The founders had an early form of gun registration: States conducted door-to-door surveys to identify where the guns were in case the government had need of them.

The founders even had their own version of an "individual mandate." In 1792, Congress required all free men of age to outfit themselves with a military-style firearm.

So I seriously think the NRA had a reaction that was made for publicity, rather than bring anything new to the gun control debate.

Here is a link to stats compiled...dramatic drop
http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/14/did-the-federal-ban-on-assault-weapons-matter/

On the contrary, where are your stats that show that armed guards prevented massacres? Didn't work at Columbine.

The right isn't explicitly written. Show me where. "a well regulated militia". 1) militia is not individual citizens. The people is militia. 2) doesn't say right to bear assault weapons. Arms at that time were muskets. Where do you stop? Right to bear RPGs?