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Canada should be our model

By tovarichpeter   2012 Oct 30, 4:29am   1,519 views   12 comments   watch (0)   quote      

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/10/30/using-canadas-health-system-as-model-might-cut-us-costs-study

Over the same period, health care spending in the United States grew nearly three times faster than in Canada's Medicare program, even though Canadian law bans co-payments and deductibles, the City University of New York researchers noted. "Canada's Medicare program has been much more successful in controlling costs than the U.S. Medicare program," said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a professor in CUNY's School of Public Health. Many factors play into the difference, Woolhandler said. "Canada's system is a real single-payer system -- our system is single-payer for only a portion of the population," she said. This results in higher administrative costs...

Comments 1-12 of 12     Last »

1   curious2   594/594 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 1, 9:39am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Canada, Mexico, and the UK are all better models, but the U.S. is moving away from all of them. The American medical-industrial complex maximizes revenues by victimizing patients, and uses the revenue to buy politicians so the laws mandate even more of the same, in a self-reinforcing cycle.

2   Patrick   1849/1849 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 1, 9:43am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Yes, I think that's the fundamental flaw in our system: people with money can buy politicians and laws to get more money.

It does not seem to be something the Constitution writers thought about. Correct me if I'm wrong.

3   Peter P   78/78 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 10:26am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

I disagree. Canada does not have a good private-sector healthcare system.

I support a universal healthcare system WITH a parallel private system. Those who wish to pay more SHOULD get better care. Equality CANNOT be legislated because it is no more real than a unicorn.

US has the best medical technology in the world. Undermining a private healthcare system by law would be a grave mistake.

4   curious2   594/594 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 10:40am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Peter P says

I support a universal healthcare system WITH a parallel private system.

Britain and Mexico each have something like that, the British NHS being more comprehensive and the Mexican system being cheaper with more private competition. Americans voted for something similar with the public option and no mandates.

Some of the founders foresaw two existential threats, both of which seem to have materalized. They feared the system could become dominated by two strong factions, and that one or both might begin voting itself $ from the public treasury. Beginning in the 1970s, with the pact between Pat Robertson and the Republican party, both have happened.

It is kind of amazing, in retrospect, that it didn't happen sooner. But it didn't. It was not until Eisenhower that the currency and pledge of allegiance all got religion, and even Nixon (a devout Quaker) thought a President shouldn't wear religion on his sleeve. That changed with Reagan, but even at that time most legislators voted with their party less than 80% of the time (compared to nearly 100% today). The switch from mostly evidence-based government to mostly faith-based government seems to be part of how people have been misled into voting against their own interests.

5   Peter P   78/78 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 10:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

The switch from mostly evidence-based government to mostly faith-based government seems to be part of how people have been misled into voting against their own interests.

I think both evidence-based government and faith-based government have their pluses and minuses.

What I see as more alarming is the rise of slave-morality. (Nothing to do with slavery. It came from Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil.) The world is becoming increasing polarized as more people choose sides.

I am not a big-P "Progressive." I think progress comes from individuals finding their own values and building their own better worlds. I do not like what we are seeing now.

6   Patrick   1849/1849 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 10:50am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Peter P says

The world is becoming increasing polarized as more people choose sides.

I'm not sure that's true. I think most people are still pretty much in the center. It's just that the fringes have gotten much much LOUDER, especially the right fringe.

7   Peter P   78/78 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 10:53am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    


I'm not sure that's true. I think most people are still pretty much in the center. It's just that the fringes have gotten much much LOUDER, especially the right fringe.

I hope you are right.

The left fringe was pretty loud too. I fear that people are losing their individuality.

8   Patrick   1849/1849 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 11:00am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Peter P says

I fear that people are losing their individuality.

I agree that people lately seem to be saying "I am this" or "I am that" defining themselves in terms of what other people tell them the valid categories are, instead of what they really are, which is complex and hard to pin down.

9   curious2   594/594 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 11:03am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Peter P says

I fear that people are losing their individuality.

I worry about that too. It reminds me of something Ron Paul said, that the less government we have, the less we need to agree on. As we build these ever more powerful institutions, whether corporate or government, they become like the machines in Terminator and The Matrix. I think the theme of those movies, machines taking over, resonates with a recurring nightmare about the institutions we build. Unfortunately, individuality doesn't appear to be a priority for the major parties right now - in fact the Republicans oppose it.

10   Peter P   78/78 = 100% civil   2012 Nov 2, 11:16am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

The moment we lose individuality, we cease to be human beings. :-(

11   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch     2012 Nov 5, 10:18pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Cannibal Anarchy will cleanse America of the weak who need healthcare.

12   errc   468/475 = 98% civil   2012 Nov 5, 10:25pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Who needs healthcare, when you can have health insurance?

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