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For the Married Guys (And the Guys Who Have Been Married)

By BayArea (11/11 = 100% civil)   2012 Dec 28, 2:55am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   2 links   98,177 views   668 comments   watch (4)   share   quote  

Hi guys,

As the old adage states, "Can't live with them, can't live without them."

For the guys that are married now or have been married, I'm wondering what your experience has been and if you could give a newly engaged man (hypothetical to me since I am not engaged) any piece of advise or wisdom, what would it be?

I love my GF, but for a few minutes I'm going to zoom out and look at things from a more technical, statistical, and less emotional point of view.

To be honest, I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages. It always seems to be the same story. Things started off great. There was excitement, adventure, strong physical and emotional chemistry. Then 2-3yrs into it, those feels started to fade. Some couples moved on to the next phase of their lives and had some glue, er I mean kids which kept things fresh and exciting.

I saw a plot in the newspaper several years back that showed divorce statistics as a function of time. There is a spike early on in the marriage (first couple of years), then one at 7 years (7-year itch), and one at about year 18-20 (when the glue is all grown up). If you make it past that, you are fairly safe (not necessarily happy, but likelihood of divorce is low). Some of that is influenced by the fact that you don't have the same options at 45 or 50 as you do at 25 or 30. Sucks, but that's the truth.

I recall reading a book by psycologist Scott Peck that studied the term "Love." He argues that 100% of relationships fall out of love, usually pretty early on in the first few years. The feeling of love is not true love then. The conscious decision to love someone once you lose the "in love" feeling is what real love is all about.

Regarding statistics, 50% of couples who get married in this country wind up in divorce (To be fair, some of those aren't 1st marriages so that 50% number isn't quite as bad as it seems - The reason is that 2nd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 1st marriages and 3rd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 2nd marriages). Moving on, if 50% of couples get divorced, then 50% of couples don't get divorced. Surely those 50% that remain together aren't all happy marriages? So then let's say that half of the marriages that stay together are happy. That means that 25% of couples getting married in the first place remain happy, lol. I really don't like the odds here!

But anytime you get into this debate, you have to get into the alternative, being alone into older age. As much as I see my folks fight and bicker, I tend to think it's better than the alternative (at least for the level they fight and bicker).

A while back Patrick argued that the average person remains in their purchased home for no more than 6-7 years. He said, you might think you are different, but statistically you are not. Same thing goes for divorce. Nobody goes into marriage thinking they will get a divorce. But statistically, 1 in 2 people do in the USA.

What do you guys think?

As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:

Both Members are devout Catholic ?
Both Members are devout Christian ?
Both Members are devout Muslim ?
Both Members are Atheist ?
Members don't share religious beliefs ?

1   joe blow   2012 Dec 30, 1:53am  ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

marriage is slavery if you are the breadwinner, and there is no way out -- divorce courts destroy your life. If you have a decent middle class job, marriage is like playing russian roulette with 3 bullets in the gun.

2   MershedPerturders   2013 Jan 13, 10:16am  ↑ like (7)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

and regaring the comments on 'men are bad partners too'... seems every negative attribution women just DEMAND total and absolute gender equivalence, and everything else they demand special treatment. IT's getting totally out of control. Women worldwide want American men due to their good attitudes towards family and marriage. They are the most ideal partners by worldwide standards.

3   epitaph   2014 Apr 26, 7:42am  ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

elliemae says

A practical woman (there are a few of us around) would prefer you spend less on the ring & wedding - and more on something important like the future.

A nice honeymoon trip is cool too, but not opulent.

The problem is that society and advertising has created this unrealistic idea of what a wedding is that most women can't seem to shake.

4   taxee   2012 Dec 28, 1:45pm  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

You can be the greatest guy on earth but 'she can change her mind'. And unless you make boatloads of money, when you get divorced and/or have kids, under California's laws your life is toast.

5   BRP001   2012 Dec 29, 5:00am  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

I was married and was very happy being so. She made it clear to me often that she was too. A dozen years later, she told me she had never cared about me at all, that she was only ever interested in the financial investments and wanted to be with someone else. Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada. Boy was she pissed. You could almost see the daggers popping out of her eyes and the steam shooting out of her ears. We're talking crazy, spitting, red faced, cursing, arms flying angry. Because she had a job and we had no kids, I had no alimony or child support payments either. The thing I'll never get over is how she was able to cooly manipulate me through the years. She seemed so sincere, sweet, innocent and loving. It was as if someone stole the person I knew one day and replaced it with a monsterous psychopath the next. I was literally dumbfounded by the fact that I had no clue whatsoever who she really was. Years later, I still have nightmares.

6   Oxygen   2012 Dec 29, 4:06pm  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

propitup1 says

That was 4 years ago and the debt is now 80% paid off. Life is better, I refused the divorce and we worked it all out. I think my marriage and family is strong.

doesnt matter what you think. it matters what she thinks. that's the terrifying part of a marriage

7   everything   2013 Jan 2, 5:42am  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Lol, rampant feminism, loud mouths, mostly terrible money management, all the laws favor them, not something I need around. Notice when countries debt problems started, feminism was really taking off. People will get it one day, but not yet. When Russia changed it's alimony/support laws the men went drinking. I laugh when people say relationship is work, I just think, so much for teamwork, last I checked hooking two horses up to the plow should make the job easier on the one, not so, instead you double the load and the man pulls it. Reminds me of all my girlfriends who only call on me when they want something, otherwise they are out chasing the bad boys around town, to funny. Who is always pushing for marriage?, yup the girl, she knows it's a contract and she's going to win when she breaks it.

8   iwog (73/74 = 98% civil)   2013 Jan 2, 9:53am  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Love the rants. Men are learning. My wife is furious over foreign brides and says men should shop at home, however she can't possibly understand what it feels like to be a discriminated class to this extent.

Any cute as a button 20-something female can get a good paying job. There are no qualifications and no training required. A million corporations have a million management types who will hire this girl to just sit and look pretty.

That is the source of so much arrogance. I've seen these gals after they cross 40 and all their options disappear. I want things better for both men and women. Our current society is damaged.

9   joshuatrio (1/1 = 100% civil)   2013 Jan 4, 12:44am  ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Been married for 7 years. My wife lives within a budget, doesn't demand expensive things, and really enjoys life - she especially loves living on the California coast and has no problem with my surfing addiction.

Her family is great, she cooks like a chef, keeps the house organized and educates our two children (ages 3 and 5).

Some may look at marriage as a ball and chain. But it's not always the case. Just gotta find the right one :)

For those who have been divorced/burned. Sure, I see the other side. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

10   Quigley (8/8 = 100% civil)   2012 Dec 28, 3:20am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

121212 is right about one thing: that when you're not married to the one you love, you try harder.
I've been married seven years. It's not always been easy or fun, but that is mostly my own fault. Guys have this genetic disease where we see something we want, hunt it down, drag it home to the cave, and promptly forget all about it. When that's a woman, we are setting ourselves up for trouble.
Women seem to have this constant need for affirmation, that they are loved, desired, needed, attractive, etc. And here's the rub, they are going to be skeptical of all attempts to tell them or prove to them that this is so. It ain't easy to even remember to do this as often as necessary, let alone come up with new and interesting ways of accomplishing the statement, "I love you."
Learn your wife's love language. It may be affection if you're lucky. Or it might be time spent talking and sharing thoughts. It may be gifts given that make her Believe, or it may be something entirely different. Whatever it is, figure this out! Then do it. Every day. Or at least most days.
Happy wife = happy life.

I can say that the relationship is more rewarding as it matures. Heck, even the sex can still be fantastic after a few kids if she's still in love with you! It will take work, more than you think, but I can tell you that it's worth it. I'm a very happily married man.

11   zzyzzx (7/7 = 100% civil)   2012 Dec 28, 8:34am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Quigley says

Once kids come along, expect less sex.

This one in pretty high on my long list of reasons not to have kids.

12   zzyzzx (7/7 = 100% civil)   2012 Dec 28, 9:19am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share

Italy's Berlusconi Told to Pay Nearly $50 Million Per Year in Alimony

Just days after the 76-year-old Berlusconi, Italy’s billionaire media tycoon and three-time prime minister, announced he got engaged to Pasquale, 27, terms of divorce from Berlusconi’s second wife, Veronica Lario, were revealed.

He will pay her €36 million ($47.2 million) per year in alimony payments. That works out to be nearly €100,000 ($131,000) per day.

Prostitutes would have been cheaper.

13   lostand confused (9/9 = 100% civil)   2012 Dec 29, 6:52am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

BayArea says

Bap33 says

Women are sitting on a gold mine. Some know it, some don't. A Man's mission is to find the ones that don't know it.

The problem is the smart ones know it.

If they don't know, then the scum of the earth-lawyers- will make sure they do and bill it by the hour to the man!

There is already a lawyer seeking to sue CT 100 million dollars on behalf of one of the survivors.

14   BRP001   2012 Dec 29, 11:35am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Peter P says

Looks like your asset protection plan stood up in court. That was quite a feat.

Emotional damages are hard to fix. It is sometimes difficult to make a decision. Which one would you prefer:

1) hedging your feelings for a lifetime

2) be true to yourself and recover gracefully when things go wrong

Modernity brings much headaches.

In this world, all relationships end. Eventually, we have to let go of all we love. I never realized why one spouse died shortly after the other after a lifetime of marriage. Now I understand. Someday, I would have had to say goodbye anyway. My choice is to grow into a better person as a result of indescribable loss. This is the fate of us all. Might as well accept it and try to grow from it. The alternative is to give up, and I’m not a quitter. The emotional damage of life is par for the course. We all must deal with it in one form or another. Although we sometimes might think so, no one is exempt from these things.

15   propitup1   2012 Dec 29, 3:02pm  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

I totally don't get the divorce phenomena in America.

I've been married 15 years, two kids and no divorce.

Yes, once my marriage was on the rocks, my wife stressed from two kids in diapers, me feeling like I'm only a pay check. Both of us lost during that time, in our new parental life feeling like it was a trap. My wife turned to crazy option trading to find the money to buy our "unrealized dreams". She charged 50K on credit cards and gambled it and lost it on the stock market, all with out my knowledge.

That was 4 years ago and the debt is now 80% paid off. Life is better, I refused the divorce and we worked it all out. I think my marriage and family is strong.

I think loyalty is really important, I believe in loyalty and I think loyalty is an important part of what keeps a couple or family together.

I don't think I understand Americans anymore,
I think Americans have lost or forgotten the importance of loyalty. Loyalty to their wife , to their husband, and to the family unit. I would even venture to say that Americans don't even feel the need to be loyal to their own country or people anymore.

If you want to get married and you want it to last, I think one should think long and hard about the concept of Loyalty, and build a high regard for it.

16   HoumanGuest   2012 Dec 30, 1:53am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

An old woman was sipping on a glass of wine, while sitting on the patio with her husband, and she says.

"I love you so much, I don't know how I could ever live without you"

Her husband asks, "Is that you or the wine talking?" ... She replies, "It's me... talking to the wine."

17   Oxygen   2012 Dec 31, 12:15am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

more gems on the presumption of paternity

- This presumption of paternity is extremely self serving for women. When guys are ordered to pay child support and ordered to raise a child that’s not biologically their own, it’s fine. Women say it’d be fine in reverse. Look how upset females get when someone swaps babies in the maternity ward. I recall lots of women blow their stacks – suing hospitals from one end of the country to the other. So much for being the blood parents “not being important”.

- The presumption of paternity is designed "to be fair to the child." However, in doing so, it is a particularly brutal issue for the man:
1) If the wife has an affair and gives birth to a child who is not the biological child of the husband, the husband is still liable for child support.
2) If a wife separates from her husband (but does not divorce him) and leaves him for another man with whom she has kids, the husband must pay child support for kids that are not his.
3) Men who are the victim of rape are liable for child support
4) Men who have a vasectomy and then their wives cheat and have another child with another man are still liable for child support.

- Why does this unfair issue persist under the guise of fairness to the child?
It reduces welfare. That's it. If you whine and cry about the cost of welfare in this country be sure to give yourself a pat on the back for ensuring the continuation of such policies - because you are responsible for their continuance. If conservatives and libertarians didn't whine so much about the cost of welfare, these policies would no longer exist. These policies exist because someone actually does have to pay for that kid. Since the actual fathers of those kids are probably no longer in the picture (if their identities are even known) and since conservatives don't like welfare, the only other source of money is the guys that these whores are married to. Want to put an end to it?

18   inflection point   2013 Jan 2, 2:53pm  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

Married 29 years as on 12/31/2012. It is as much or as little as you make of it. Try to take less than you give.

19   New Renter   2013 Jan 2, 2:54pm  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

iwog says

Love the rants. Men are learning. My wife is furious over foreign brides and says men should shop at home, however she can't possibly understand what it feels like to be a discriminated class to this extent.

Any cute as a button 20-something female can get a good paying job. There are no qualifications and no training required. A million corporations have a million management types who will hire this girl to just sit and look pretty.

That is the source of so much arrogance. I've seen these gals after they cross 40 and all their options disappear. I want things better for both men and women. Our current society is damaged.

That cute- as-a- button 20 year old has far more options available to her than an unattractive 20 year old. Working as a trophy receptionist she will likely meet many people who can further her career or become Mr Right. If she has played her cards right our heroine will likely find herself at 40 living a very comfortable life with working outside the home as an option rather than a necessity.

Save your sympathy for the ugly ones who don't have as many doors open to them.

20   iwog (73/74 = 98% civil)   2013 Jan 3, 4:17pm  ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   top   bottom   home   share  

I've been more or less happily married for 21 years this May.

If some tragedy took my wife tomorrow, I would never consider ever marrying an American woman or indeed any female from our first world cousins.

I think the problem is extremely complex but is mostly the result of technology and wealth. Women are afforded the luxury of pretending they are "doing it themselves" when the reality is that almost everything they require on a day to day basis is provided almost exclusively by men.

The high paying jobs that women hold fall into one of three categories:

1. Natural fit to female instinct such as teacher, doctor, nurse, or any job involving children.
2. Positions artificially created by a self-indulgent aristocracy that likes to have young women around.
3. Positions artificially created by government and corporate affirmative action programs designed to force square pegs into round holes. (military, police)

Besides the obvious function of sperm donation, the purpose of a man in human pair bonding is the acquisition of wealth (food, clothing, shelter) and protection. These attributes are extremely important in a poor society but totally unnecessary in a rich one.

Therefore women in the Western world perceive their value to be much higher relative to potential mates. Living up to her expectations 100 years ago meant putting food on the table. Living up to her expectations today means putting her into a Lexus.

With increasing wealth disparity and the media saturated with conspicuous consumption, the gap between what women need and what they think they need is getting bigger and bigger. It's simply not worth it and not necessary. There are ample supplies of beautiful women in the 3rd world who can make your life wonderful, worship the ground you walk on, and never make you doubt her devotion.

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