patrick.net

 
  forgot password?   register

#housing #investing #politics more»
737,207 comments in 75,838 posts by 10,915 registered users, 1 online now: BayAreaObserver

new post

Profile of a Republican gun lunatic

By iwog   2013 Jan 7, 9:17pm   2 links   57,029 views   292 comments   watch (1)   quote      

This is what we're up against. Just for information purposes, the murder rate from all causes in the United States is 4.8 per 100,000 while the murder rate from all causes in the United Kingdom is 1.2 per 100,000. The United States is the most dangerous country in the 1st world by far. There is no comparison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Tonight Piers Morgan sat down with the creator of a White House petition to get him deported from the United States. Alex Jones was fired up throughout the entire interview, launching into a series of loud tirades against Morgan and gun control every few seconds. Every time Morgan tried to ask a question, Jones continued to pile through with his arguments.

#politics

« First     « Previous     Comments 253-292 of 292     Last »

253   ForcedTQ   11/11 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 11, 2:27pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

That wasn't my point. My point is that you cannot presume to know what the original intent was. Saying the original intent was that anyone can possess any arms for any purpose regardless of the evolution of the country, the existence of actual militias, or the advancements of technology is arrogant, reckless, and indefensible.

Hypocritical much??? Saying what it is not is just as bad as saying what it is. If the individual is not allowed to maintain arms of equivalency at their own free will, how is the right not being "infringed"???

2A doesn't give individuals the right to kill whoever they want without recourse. This is the real problem here, not 2A, not people having arms. IT's what they do with those arms. There are already laws covering individuals using firearms to kill other individuals outside of self defense......

Crisis response with laws addressing anything but the actual cause of the problem is bound to have a repeat crisis follow.

254   iwog   1560/1561 = 99% civil   2013 Jan 11, 2:35pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

ForcedTQ says

Hypocritical much??? Saying what it is not is just as bad as saying what it is. If the individual is not allowed to maintain arms of equivalency at their own free will, how is the right not being "infringed"???

1. I'm never hypocritical.

2. I do not speak for the founding fathers regarding the 2nd amendment. What you interpreted as hypocritical was nothing more than a POSSIBLE opposing view with EXACTLY as much legitimacy. If all possibilities are legitimate, then arguing over the correct interpretation of original intent is stupid.

3. I have no idea what "arms of equivalency" is supposed to mean, however I would bet that you are trying again to read the minds of men who are long dead. I suggest you stop. It's not a legitimate point.

ForcedTQ says

2A doesn't give individuals the right to kill whoever they want without recourse. This is the real problem here, not 2A, not people having arms. IT's what they do with those arms. There are already laws covering individuals using firearms to kill other individuals outside of self defense......

The 2nd amendment can be read as giving people the right to own whatever arms were available in 1790. Anything else is religious dogma and CANNOT BE PROVEN! I will not allow you the luxury of arguing religious dogma on a point of law.

255   JodyChunder     2013 Jan 11, 2:41pm  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

1. I'm never hypocritical.

Of course you are. It's ok, you're human. Even the simplest jerk contains multitudes.

256   iwog   1560/1561 = 99% civil   2013 Jan 11, 2:45pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

JodyChunder says

iwog says

1. I'm never hypocritical.

Of course you are. It's ok, you're human. Even the simplest jerk contains multitudes.

Well if someone wants to make a case of my hypocrisy, he's welcome to present it. What ForcedTQ posted doesn't qualify.

257   JodyChunder     2013 Jan 11, 3:03pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Well if someone wants to make a case of my hypocrisy, he's welcome to present it.

Well, I contradict myself all the time, and then vindicate myself with dandy quotes like:

Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds - Emerson.

258   bg     2013 Jan 11, 3:07pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

Also I don't think it is as easy as taking someones debate demeanor as a predictability of violent acts

I don't mean to take his debate demeanor as an indication of violence. It was the other video on his website where he talks about being followed on the street during his trip that seemed psychotic to me. By psychotic I mean paranoid. Folks with psychosis are no more likely to kill other people than those who are not psychotic.

He looked ill to me.
mell says

maybe he really felt so strongly about this issue that it came from his heart.

I respect the fact that Alex Jones' may have been speaking from his heart and that he had a passion for the topic. I also thought I saw something more in the second clip on Alex Jones' website that looked like psychosis to me.

I also really value each person's individuality, quirks, disagreements and all of the messy things that people are. I certainly don't see psych meds as a panacea for the pains of existence. I am saying that this guy in the clip on his website looked like he was psychotic and paranoid. I want him to be a better advocate for what he believes in. I would be really interested in his history and a trial of medications.

Mell, I hope this falls into "friendly discussion" for us.

259   bg     2013 Jan 11, 3:17pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

leo707 says

Yes, it could have been due to a number of issues

Since 1985 we have many more violent video games and a more casual approach to violence on TV and movies. Couldn't that figure in here, too?

260   thomaswong.1986     2013 Jan 11, 4:31pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Moderate Infidel says

I doubt most intruders are breaking into homes with m16's.

caught on video... sure looks like one! good thing the homeowner had a automatic..

261   BlueSardine   537/544 = 98% civil   2013 Jan 11, 11:15pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (3)   quote    

why would anyone want to make a case out of something that has already been demonstrably proven in spades??

iwog says

JodyChunder says

iwog says

1. I'm never hypocritical.

Of course you are. It's ok, you're human. Even the simplest jerk contains multitudes.

Well if someone wants to make a case of my hypocrisy, he's welcome to present it. What ForcedTQ posted doesn't qualify.

262   David Losh     2013 Jan 12, 1:39am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

msilenus says

It really is an interesting point of view.

I agree, but he also cherry picked his quotes from the era.

There are many quotes of citizens presenting military weapons for inspection. That wasn't the focus that he had.

He also never addressed side arms.

So I don't see in his opinion where he is banning guns, or taking guns away, he simply set parameters for having the guns.

263   David Losh     2013 Jan 12, 1:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoftShell says

and if you want hunting weapons, you should buy a knife....

guns are for pussys...

Real men hunt men, only pussies hunt animals.

264   BlueSardine   537/544 = 98% civil   2013 Jan 12, 2:43am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (3)   quote    

Real men hunt out of absolute necessity.
Pussys hunt with guns for sport.

David Losh says

SoftShell says

and if you want hunting weapons, you should buy a knife....

guns are for pussys...

Real men hunt men, only pussies hunt animals.

265   Moderate Infidel     2013 Jan 12, 2:59am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

Moderate Infidel says

I doubt most intruders are breaking into homes with m16's.

caught on video... sure looks like one! good thing the homeowner had a automatic..

And bullets struck the neighbors house, possibly the bullets from the homeowners gun. Again a dog and shotgun would suffice cause obviously his aim wasn't so good. Also, What was in that house that four men heavily armed would want to storm it during the day? The fact he had surveillance cameras and was heavily armed seems a bit suspicious. Drug dealer perhaps?

266   Raw     2013 Jan 12, 5:57am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

267   msilenus     2013 Jan 12, 7:33am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

David Losh says

I agree, but he also cherry picked his quotes from the era.

There are many quotes of citizens presenting military weapons for inspection. That wasn't the focus that he had.

He also never addressed side arms.

So I don't see in his opinion where he is banning guns, or taking guns away, he simply set parameters for having the guns.

Being the author of a majority opinion in a supreme court case means you can cherry-pick all you want. The only checks and balances on your behavior are your fellow justices, and the right of the executive to appoint successors after a quorum of your co-signers die of old age. Cherry picking or no, this is what the second amendment means until the grim reaper weighs in.

You're right that he's not taking away guns. He's actually overturning a law because it took away a particular kind of gun that he felt fell under the amendment. As CDon noted, a big part of what he's doing is saying where that protection ends. That means where on the weapon spectrum the government can start instituting bans, and what the government can do to regulate even protected weapons. He's obviously not legislating an AWB from the bench. But he's carving out enough room for Congress to write a new one, or to enact any number of other laws.

268   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch     2013 Jan 12, 11:19am  ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

Moderate Infidel says

I doubt most intruders are breaking into homes with m16's.

caught on video... sure looks like one! good thing the homeowner had a automatic..

This is why anything less than automatic weapons with belt-fed ammo should be illegal.

Think of the deterrent value of the same scenario, but the home owner cuts down these fuckers with a 50 caliber machine gun, lurches out into the drive way to chase down the last ones standing by the car and saws them into bits, bone and meat spraying the yard, driveway and street.

Then, in a show of total victory, he yanks chunks of their bodies off and throws the prizes to the neighborhood dogs.

Neighborhood Watch!

Booyah!

269   MMR   308/308 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 12, 12:24pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ok fair enough. But I'm glad you were able to address where Jones was factually incorrect. I take it Ron Dellums is more your style?

leo707 says

MMR says

Mental illness have been around for a long time and guns have been around for a long time, but mass shootings without a clear motive are a relatively new occurrence.

Guns and drugs aside spree killing has been going on a very long time. The term "run amok" has been around hundreds of years.

270   MMR   308/308 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 12, 12:25pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Last time I checked California has the strictest anti-gun policies in the US. Working wonders up in East O.

MMR says

Ok fair enough. But I'm glad you were able to address where Jones was factually incorrect. I take it Ron Dellums is more your style?

leo707 says

MMR says

Mental illness have been around for a long time and guns have been around for a long time, but mass shootings without a clear motive are a relatively new occurrence.

Guns and drugs aside spree killing has been going on a very long time. The term "run amok" has been around hundreds of years.

271   Moderate Infidel     2013 Jan 12, 1:33pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

MMR says

Last time I checked California has the strictest anti-gun policies in the US. Working wonders up in East O.

MMR says

Ok fair enough. But I'm glad you were able to address where Jones was factually incorrect. I take it Ron Dellums is more your style?

leo707 says

MMR says

Mental illness have been around for a long time and guns have been around for a long time, but mass shootings without a clear motive are a relatively new occurrence.

Guns and drugs aside spree killing has been going on a very long time. The term "run amok" has been around hundreds of years.

making a law that requires a criminal background check isn't "anti-gun". it's anti-criminal because "guns don't kill people, criminals do."

I live in Cali and bought two guns legally no problem. I'm also not a criminal. Yet.

Them damn kids better git off my lawn!

272   iwog   1560/1561 = 99% civil   2013 Jan 12, 1:42pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

MMR says

Last time I checked California has the strictest anti-gun policies in the US. Working wonders up in East O.

Bullshit. Almost any handgun can still be legally purchased and owned in California while they are by permit only in New York and Massachusetts. In Washington DC they are outright banned.

Just keep making stuff up. It's what Republicans are good at.

273   bdrasin     2013 Jan 13, 12:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

MMR says

Last time I checked California has the strictest anti-gun policies in the US. Working wonders up in East O.

Bullshit. Almost any handgun can still be legally purchased and owned in California while they are by permit only in New York and Massachusetts. In Washington DC they are outright banned.

Just keep making stuff up. It's what Republicans are good at.

CA is an interesting situation in that we have strict gun laws by US standards (the strictest in the country according to some), although quite weak on an absolute scale or compared to anywhere else in the world. Yes, that includes Switzerland and Israel. During the last 10 years California has gone from having one of the highest rates of gun deaths to one of the lowest (for example compare 2004 to 2012).
The states with the highest rates of gun deaths per capita are Louisiana Mississippi and Alaska, all of which have very weak gun laws. No one statistic tells the whole story, but there is some reason to believe that the types of laws we have here in Cali do some good, while still allowing widespread gun ownership.

274   Bellingham Bill   74/74 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 14, 3:37am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

>Last time I checked California has the strictest anti-gun policies in the US. Working wonders up in East O.

yes, yes they did work in East Oakland not to long ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/30/AR2010073003254.html

rightwing nutball wasn't able to get the guns he really wanted, so he was unable to take out the cops who stopped him.

275   dublin hillz   14/14 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 14, 3:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

East O has a generational cultural issue when it comes to homicides/violence and gun control or lack there of over there will not be on any meaningful consequence.

276   thomaswong.1986     2013 Jan 14, 1:07pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

Boom in Daly City Cross roads Gun Show...

Estimated 10,000 attend gun show at Cow Palace.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsula&id=8951843

DALY CITY, Calif. (KGO) -- There were huge lines and long waits to buy guns and ammunition at a gun show in Daly City Saturday. Organizers and attendees say the reason for the turnout is the fear the government is going to take their guns away, or at least impose heavy restrictions.

Gun show organizers say they had record attendance, about 10,000 thousand people showed up at the Cow Palace. The people we spoke to said they came because they fear that the president's task force on guns will result in tighter restrictions on ammunition, clips, and especially assault weapons.

"I cannot believe the number of people and cars," said gun show attendee Bob Daziel.

Daziel is as shocked at the turnout as are organizers of the Crossroads of the West Gun Show at the Cow Palace. Thousands of people came to Daly City, many of them for the same reason and the same concern.

Jayleen Heres just bought an AR15 assault rifle, "That's why we all need to get 'em now before they take 'em away." When asked if he has more at home, Heres answered, "I have three more at home this is the fourth.

277   thomaswong.1986     2013 Jan 14, 1:12pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

Tweet inShare
Bay Area gun show draws record crowd, odd items, colorful charactersiwog says

Profile of a Republican gun lunatic

oh !

Bay Area gun show draws record crowd, odd items, colorful characters

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_22363391/bay-area-gun-show-draws-record-crowd-odd

Sure, among the thousands of people attending the Crossroads of the West Gun Show at the Cow Palace in Daly City, there were plenty of conservatives wearing camouflage hats and touting rifles. But there were also many women buying stun guns and parents pushing kids in strollers. Children younger than 12 got in free, and one young boy who walked out proclaimed his love for the show by exclaiming "how fun!"

There were even some of the left-leaning folks the Bay Area is famous for.

That included San Jose resident Steve Cozens, a self-described liberal who had plenty of skateboarding gear, including the Vans shoes he wore as he walked out with a pack of bullets for the two rifles he's building.

"If there's a mob of 50 people coming down the street, and they've just burned five or six houses, I'm not going to wait for them to come to my house," said Cozens, a 50-year-old father who recently overcame his "intimidation" of guns and now thinks his Second Amendment rights are in danger.

278   JodyChunder     2013 Jan 14, 1:12pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

"I cannot believe the number of people and cars," said gun show attendee Bob Daziel.

Gun shows. Ha! Buncha bored fucks without much in the way of imagination or introspection.

I shoot cans in the desert. (Shoot, I drink my dessert from a can.) But gun shows are for only the worst sadsackssonofabitches.

279   thomaswong.1986     2013 Jan 14, 1:15pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

JodyChunder says

But gun shows are for only the worst sadsackssonofabitches.

In Daly City or San Jose.. you might get a couple hundred.. to get 10K its news alright..

280   JodyChunder     2013 Jan 14, 1:20pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Just losers, though. I bought all my guns like any lard-hearted, red-blooded American man would - on the black market (from the trunk of a '77 Monte Carlo in Death Valley). If you could compare the rosters of gun show attendees with the roster of the latest NAMBLA convention, you'd see perfect parallels. At least in San Jose, which, no offense, is like pussy mecca.

281   BlueSardine   537/544 = 98% civil   2013 Jan 14, 1:20pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (3)   quote    

282   David Losh     2013 Jan 15, 4:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

JodyChunder says

I bought all my guns like any lard-hearted, red-blooded American man would - on the black market (from the trunk of a '77 Monte Carlo in Death Valley).

JodyChunder says

Gun shows. Ha!

I'll have to respectfully disagree for us in urban settings. I would have never met the gentleman I did business with in a parking lot without the gun show.

I traded him an FN FAL with full auto receiver for an SP 89. I had to get rid of the FN to a dealer because some fuck at the gun show called me on it.

I did business with the same guy for a couple of years for parts, acessories, and gun trades.

Gun shows are a great place to get information, and network. I like to meet the people I'm going to do business with in a nuetral setting.

283   thomaswong.1986     2013 Jan 15, 3:04pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (3)   quote    

JodyChunder says

pussy mecca.

yea... if we dont got it.. you dont want it !

284   David Losh     2013 Jan 16, 10:10pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

msilenus says

But he's carving out enough room for Congress to write a new one, or to enact any number of other laws.

I'm standing corrected on the Scalia opinion. It's obvious that this is the opinion Obama is relying on for this new round of gun control. I can see the similarities now.

My confusion is that Scalia never adressed the Militias. The gun nuts that I know are pretty set on having Militias, and want Militia training before you get military weapons. That was the topic of conversation that I have had in the past.

285   Robert Sproul   17/17 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 16, 11:14pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

Bullshit. Almost any handgun can still be legally purchased and owned in California while they are by permit only in New York and Massachusetts. In Washington DC they are outright banned.

Here are some facts that counter your knee jerk emotionalism. A report from a former prosecutor in DC outlining the failures of their ban.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_opinion
" It emboldened criminals because they knew that law-abiding District residents were unarmed and powerless to defend themselves. Violent crime increased after the law was enacted, with homicides rising to 369 in 1988, from 188 in 1976 when the ban started. By 1993, annual homicides had reached 454."

286   iwog   1560/1561 = 99% civil   2013 Jan 17, 12:14am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Robert Sproul says

Here are some facts that counter your knee jerk emotionalism.

You didn't counter anything. My point was that California does not in fact have the strictest gun laws in the country.

What does effectiveness have to do with anything?

287   zzyzzx   571/571 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 17, 12:24am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

288   zzyzzx   571/571 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 17, 12:26am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

289   Robert Sproul   17/17 = 100% civil   2013 Jan 17, 12:47am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

iwog says

What does effectiveness have to do with anything?

And this sums up your position perfectly.

From the article, by a person with actual experience and expertise:
"Since the gun ban was struck down, murders in the District have steadily gone down, from 186 in 2008 to 88 in 2012, the lowest number since the law was enacted in 1976. "

290   AlexS     2013 Jan 17, 12:58am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Iwog - instead of presenting all these worthless factoids that really have no relevance to the gun discussion, why don't you disprove anything Alex Jones stated in that interview?

Tyrants didn't confiscate guns before proceeding to steal and mass-murder?
Operation Gladeo didn't happen? That's when CIA-NATO put a program in place to murder random people and blame it on someone else. They pretend this program is no longer in place - bullsh111t!

Gulf of Tonkin didn't happen? That's when the US military staged an incident to provide excuse to expand the War in Vietnam. This is typical False Flag op, this is how they operate.

Operation Northwood didn't happen? That's when they were going to kill random people in Florida and blame it on Cubans - to start the war on Cuba. This operation didn't happen because JFK refused to give a go ahead. JFK was killed shortly after, under questionable circumstances, blamed on a patsy, who was killed shortly thereafter by a guy who died shortly thereafter thereafter.

Operation "Fast and Furious" didn't happen? That's when they TRUCKED THOUSANDS OF GUNS to Mexican gangs to be used against americans, so that they could blame Second Amendment. Go ask Eric Holder! Go ask the FBI - Federal Bureau of Instigation!

Gosh, this is all these people do, the FBI, the CIA - they instigate and/or mass murder people and blame it on someone else.

Google Democide!

Also, all recent mass killers weren't on Prozac, Zoloft, Ritalin, or some combination of the above and other?
Also, most of them were involved in some sort of Government-University program.

Gun crimes aren't down in conceal-carry state such as Texas and Florida, and Gun crimes are not up in such gun-free zones such as Chicago and Philly?

Also, what about this argument - I am a human being, and I have certain human rights. Not because Obama said it's ok, but just because I am a human being! I have a right to pursue happiness! I have a right to defend myself and my family! I have a right to exist! I have a right to breathe!

Who do our natural rights come from? Obama?

Learn history! Bill of rights doesn't "give us rights". It basically states that these natural rights exist, and government can't temper with them. And should government start tempering with them, for whatever gazillion reasons govenrments throughout history gave (but always before they steal and mass murder), we have the right to fight the goverment.

291   AlexS     2013 Jan 17, 1:06am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Here is a little flashback for history ignoramuses:
http://www.infowars.com/other-tyrants-who-have-used-children-as-props/

Hitler took the guns! Lenin took the guns and then Stalin proceeded to slaughter tens of millions shortly thereafter (because Lenin died).
Mao took the guns! Castro took the guns! Kim il Sung took the guns! Chavez took the guns!

Everytime a crackpot sociapath gets to power, his first verdict is to go after guns - because they know it's much harder to steal and mass murder when people can resist.

Our overlords are stealing trillions from us, they know the sh11t will hit the fan soon. Hence all this propaganda to disarm americans as much as possible.

Now they are parading this sore Loser general McCrystal. Despite complete military superiority, despite unseen cruelty and torture, despite Drone assassinations, electricutions, cutting off ears, raping (men and women), despite all the horror this criminal and his cohorts instituted over Afganis, they still got there behinds handed to them. Simply because Afganis have AK47s.

They, the McCrystals, Obamas, Bushes, Kristols, Eric "Fast and Furious" Holder, and the rest of vicious sociapathic animals that grabbed power and are mass murdering indiscriminately in Middle East, Africa, Latin America, and now they have death squads operating in the US (see Aaron Scwartz (who helped defeat PIPA and SOPA), Keith Ratliff (from most popular youtube gun show FPS Russia (, and other half-dozen assassinations - all in just last month) - they know fully well that they won't be able to fully enslave us if we are armed.

292   Thedaytoday     2013 Jan 23, 7:49am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (4)   quote    

So to recap :

softshell/xrpb11a/shrek/shrekgrinch/ruki/kennethcrass/kingshit/!!

must be hard to maintain all those personalities in your head!!

Wanker!

« First     « Previous     Comments 253-292 of 292     Last »

users   about   suggestions   contact  
topics   random post   best comments   comment jail  
patrick's 40 proposals  
10 reasons it's a terrible time to buy  
8 groups who lie about the housing market  
37 bogus arguments about housing  
get a free bumper sticker:

top   bottom   home