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LAPD shoots 71 year old Latina in the back

By tovarichpeter   2013 Feb 8, 4:24am   7,138 views   43 comments   watch (0)   quote      

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-shootings-newspaper-carriers.html

An attorney representing two women who were delivering newspapers when they were shot by police during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer called the incident "unacceptable," saying his clients looked nothing like the suspect. Emma Hernandez, 71, was delivering the Los Angeles Times with her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance on Thursday morning when Los Angeles police detectives apparently mistook their pickup for that of Christopher Dorner, the 33-year-old fugitive suspected of killing three people and injuring two others. Hernandez, who attorney Glen T. Jonas said was shot twice in the...

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4   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 4:50am  ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

"Tragically, we believe this is a case of mistaken identity," LAPD Chief Charlie Beck told reporters earlier Thursday about the shooting.

About 25 minutes after the shooting, Torrance police opened fire after spotting another truck similar to Dorner's at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street. No one was reported hurt.

This isn't just a case of mistaken identity. 25 minutes of shooting at innocent people? Did the innocent people do anything that implied they were a threat to the police officers? Did the innocent people pull out a gun?

Even if the police has shot the guy they were after, it would be first degree murder, not a defensive action. If all of the police officers involved aren't arrested and tried for first degree murder -- which, let's face it, isn't going to happen in our corrupt joke of a court system -- then it is a travesty of justice.

These police were on a planned assassination mission. That is utterly inexcusable regardless of whether or not innocents are mistaken for the target or caught in the crossfire.

Where are those militias protecting us from tyranny again? Um, this is one of those situations where you militia folk are suppose to jump into action. Arrest those police officers.

5   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 4:51am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

IDDQD says

And why drag poor woman's ethnicity into this in the first place?

It shows how ridiculous the "case of mistaken identity" is.

6   leo707     2013 Feb 8, 4:55am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Call it Crazy says

Vicente says

Certainly lends a little credence to Mr. Dorner's whacko manifesto, if the LAPD is in "shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, then identify the suspect" mode.

Haven't you heard?? Assault doesn't pertain to LAPD. They're above the law....

That is pretty much what the manifesto says.

FYI, Dorner claims he was drummed out of the LAPD because he reported his training officer for Assaulting a mentally ill suspect that was no threat.

7   HEY YOU   585/585 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 5:04am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Sarcasm:
I've not seen anything about the NRA/gun lovers marching armed in the streets demanding the rights to life,liberty & pursuit of happiness of all Americans & these two ladies & demanding immediate trials of these wild LAPD shooters.Why aren't they demanding unrestricted ownership of full auto weapons & armor piercing ammo. How can citizens protect themselves when they are outgunned?
Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun?
What's the NRA/GL going to do when their family members are shot down in the streets? Probably nothing.

8   Blurtman   413/413 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 5:44am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I remember watching the Rodney King beating at an SF bar, and not reading any racism into the beating. The LA cops were known as equal opportunity beaters. Psychos, cops you don't want to back talk to. The black fellow next to me at the bar had quite a different viewpoint on the beating.

9   FortWayne   386/390 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 5:50am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Dan8267 says

IDDQD says

And why drag poor woman's ethnicity into this in the first place?

It shows how ridiculous the "case of mistaken identity" is.

Shows how poor their judgement is when they are not being covered by channel 5 news helicopter. On camera they act like real police officers, without cameras they act like thugs with guns... shoot to kill at random people.

Some cops think they are above the law just because they get to administer it.

10   FortWayne   386/390 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 5:54am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Dan8267 says

Where are those militias protecting us from tyranny again? Um, this is one of those situations where you militia folk are suppose to jump into action. Arrest those police officers.

There are no militias, you can't even carry a gun in CA anymore unless you want to get shot by trigger happy LAPD cops, who will gladly plant any evidence on you and claim self defense if necessary.

11   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   174/174 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 6:09am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

tinted windows. cops panicked because they couldn't see.

12   Tenpoundbass   965/966 = 99% civil   2013 Feb 8, 6:41am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

It's all just harmless fun.

13   noshow     2013 Feb 8, 6:52am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Need more target practice, most of the shots, were in the tailgate.. lucky ladies.

14   BoomAndBustCycle   19/19 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 6:58am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

This is a perfect example of why the NRA is dead wrong about arming everyone the world would be safer. Sure, one person couldn't perpetrate a mass killing spree as easily. But there were be COUNTLESS accidental, fear, and bad decision making shootings occurring on a daily basis.

If trained policy officers can't control their emotions and not shoot first, ask questions later... How does the NRA expect ordinary men, women and children with very basic how-to gun safety training to react in a stressful situation when they are carrying a gun!?

I would predict this is what would happen...

Man attempts to steal old ladies purse on busy street... Another locked and loaded pedestrian attempts to shoot the suspect as he runs away with the purse.. he misses and hits a child... The child's father turns the corner.. shoots at the man trying to protect the old lady... boom.. man shot dead.. another guy carrying a concealed weapons permit turns the corner sees the father just shot another man in cold blood. Fires at the father...

And so forth...

This would happen on a daily basis if everyone were packing heat in a busy city.

15   Moderate Infidel     2013 Feb 8, 7:07am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bang! Stop! Bang! Or I'll shoot! Bang!

16   Moderate Infidel     2013 Feb 8, 7:08am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

This guy will end up being some peoples folk hero.

17   justme   105/105 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 7:11am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

FortWayne says

Shows how poor their judgement is when they are not being covered by channel 5 news helicopter.

Apparently, we do need drones. To watch the police at all times.

I have had a less than favorable view of the behavior and judgement of the police in general, and this is a low on par with the Oscar Grant shooting.

Nobody, and especially not police, should start a shooting match UNLESS you are fired upon OR there is clear (in this case visual) evidence that gunfire is IMMINENT.

18   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 7:32am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

IDDQD says

Dan8267 says

IDDQD says

And why drag poor woman's ethnicity into this in the first place?

It shows how ridiculous the "case of mistaken identity" is.

Mentioning her sex and maybe age would be sufficient.

You obviously have never been to LA.

19   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 8, 7:36am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

BoomAndBustCycle says

This is a perfect example of why the NRA is dead wrong about arming everyone the world would be safer. Sure, one person couldn't perpetrate a mass killing spree as easily. But there were be COUNTLESS accidental, fear, and bad decision making shootings occurring on a daily basis.

This is the best argument I've heard on either side of the debate.

It doesn't address exactly what gun laws we should have, but it perfectly addresses the argument that a well-armed society is safer.

20   leo707     2013 Feb 8, 7:42am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

justme says

Nobody, and especially not police, should start a shooting match UNLESS you are fired upon OR there is clear (in this case visual) evidence that gunfire is IMMINENT.

Not only was there clearly zero danger for them to see, they did not even get a good look at their target. You should always be able to identify your target.

Police shooting at what they think might be there, and doing so in a city, is the moral equivalent of a gang doing a drive by shooting.

21   dublin hillz   14/14 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 7:46am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

BoomAndBustCycle says

Man attempts to steal old ladies purse on busy street... Another locked and
loaded pedestrian attempts to shoot the suspect as he runs away with the purse..
he misses and hits a child... The child's father turns the corner.. shoots at
the man trying to protect the old lady... boom.. man shot dead.. another guy
carrying a concealed weapons permit turns the corner sees the father just shot
another man in cold blood. Fires at the father...

Lol, hilarious.

22   leo707     2013 Feb 8, 7:46am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

BoomAndBustCycle says

This is a perfect example of why the NRA is dead wrong about arming everyone the world would be safer. Sure, one person couldn't perpetrate a mass killing spree as easily. But there were be COUNTLESS accidental, fear, and bad decision making shootings occurring on a daily basis.

This is the best argument I've heard on either side of the debate.

It doesn't address exactly what gun laws we should have, but it perfectly addresses the argument that a well-armed society is safer.

I am not sure...

Their is a big difference between an armed civilian who will be held accountable, and a group that has little fear of seeing any consequences for bad calls along with an authority complex and a desire to see others submit.

23   Moderate Infidel     2013 Feb 8, 8:15am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Why do minorities keep insisting on acting suspiciously around police officers forcing them to shoot.

24   Vicente     2013 Feb 8, 8:20am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Moderate Infidel says

Why do minorities keep insisting on acting suspiciously around police officers forcing them to shoot.

Nothing they are reported to have done, violated the Chris Rock Rules:

25   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   174/174 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 9:08am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

if blacks are going to riot again, at least do it right this time and do it in a white community, where it would really matter. after all that's where the tension is, isn't it.

watching them burn down their own "hoods" gets boring after the 10th time.

grow a pair.

26   Tenpoundbass   965/966 = 99% civil   2013 Feb 8, 9:22am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Moderate Infidel says

Why do minorities keep insisting on acting suspiciously around police officers

I think this is why there are more blacks in prison. Many don't get the whole on the DL thing, they handle all their bidness right out on the showroom floor and in the open.

Cop weed with a black guy and your driving down the road and he tells you... "Yo stop right here..." "Right here?!?" "Yeah man right here just stop the car in the street... YO De`de! where's Marry at!" "Hey easy man, keep it on the down low, the cops are right over there." "Man they don't know who the fuck marry is chill Mother fucker I got this..." (Wooooo wup wup car pulls in behind us)

White guys are like Maxwell Smart, have to park three houses down, walk through the back alley, through the gate and a series of doors, vaults, and elevators. Then they have to stay a while like it's a "Visit". But I think that's just so they(the guy you copped from) can get high on your dime.

27   epitaph   34/34 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 8, 9:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

IDDQD says

What's with using Spanish words in English sentences? I don't believe your couldn't express it with common English words. And why drag poor woman's ethnicity into this in the first place?

LAPD has had a long standing problem with minorities that goes back over 60 years.

28   Reality     2013 Feb 9, 4:01am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

BoomAndBustCycle says

If trained policy officers can't control their emotions and not shoot first, ask questions later... How does the NRA expect ordinary men, women and children with very basic how-to gun safety training to react in a stressful situation when they are carrying a gun!?

None of the existing concealed-carry states have this problem that you imagine. The LAPD cops act like thugs because they have a long history of de facto legal immunity from their abuses. Medieval aristocrats used to behave that way too towards the common people precisely because of the same reason: legal immunity from their ill behavior towards the lower caste. The proposal to disarm all common people and let law enforcement only legally have guns is rather similar to medieval laws banning swords and armor ownership outside the aristocratic knight/samurai class.

29   ducsingle5313     2013 Feb 9, 4:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

leo707 says

Police shooting at what they think might be there, and doing so in a city, is the moral equivalent of a gang doing a drive by shooting.

That's an accurate description because many police departments are essentially gangs with badges whose internal motto is "to protect and serve ourselves".

If a civilian did the same thing, they would be behind bars charged with at least assault with a deadly weapon and maybe attempted murder. Here the cops are probably on paid administrative leave, and the police union will staunchly defend their actions as being reasonable in view of the circumstances.

Oh yeah, and since they're in California, they will be retiring at age 50 with six-figure pensions and lifetime medical benefits.

30   Fucking White Male   230/231 = 99% civil   2013 Feb 9, 5:33am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

#1.) I have no idea why the local televised news was reporting the women as being asian.

#2.) Its probably of benefit to let things shake out and see what the investigation shows. I'll agree it does not look good. Appears the cops shot the truck from behind for god knows what reason. IF things are what they appear at face value, I do believe the officers will be fired and charged with a crime.

#3.) Creating a nexus between this incident and what Dorner wrote in his "manifesto" seems a bit ridiculous. Dorner's writtings have been evaluated by several mental health professionals and universally determined to be written by someone who is mentally ill with personality disorders. To simply discard the professional opinion and substitute ones own armchair quarterback opinions...well that seems kinda nuts also.

31   Homeboy     2013 Feb 9, 8:59am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote    

Call it Crazy says

Sorry to burst your bubble, but thousands CCW now everyday. Do you see THEM shooting up innocent people?

Yes. All the time.

32   MMR   285/285 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 9, 9:59am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Who's going to arrest those police officers with all the gun control against the peons of society? The risk of attacking cops and having to justify it later is too great a risk. So how can the power of the militia be regulated such that it serves as an effective balance to the power of law enforcement?

Does that mean people shouldn't have guns at all? Or do you just have a problem with the militia argument?

Dan8267 says

hose militias protecting us from tyranny again? Um, this is one of those situations where you militia folk are suppose to jump into action. Arrest those police officers.

33   MMR   285/285 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 9, 10:08am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Who can say for sure that they weren't controlling their emotions? Maybe they want to kill the guy and know that they have enough support to be trigger-happy without having to face punishment. Will be interesting to see whether and to what extent these guys will get punished.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't people who carry concealed weapons need to go through extensive training in order to have such a permit.

The NRA represents gun manufacturers and a small percentage of gun owners. I could be wrong on that, but I don't know that the majority of gun owners are 'gun-toting NRA freaks'. Not sure who died and made the NRA universal spokespeople for gun owners.

BoomAndBustCycle says

If trained policy officers can't control their emotions and not shoot first, ask questions later... How does the NRA expect ordinary men, women and children with very basic how-to gun safety training to react in a stressful situation when they are carrying a gun!

34   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 9, 10:52am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

MMR says

Does that mean people shouldn't have guns at all? Or do you just have a problem with the militia argument?

Just the militia argument and for the exact reasons you stated.

35   Dan8267   2522/2554 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 9, 10:53am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

MMR says

Who can say for sure that they weren't controlling their emotions? Maybe they want to kill the guy and know that they have enough support to be trigger-happy without having to face punishment.

Agreed. This was premeditated. The went out to murder the guy so that he would not stand trial and have a chance to defend himself against the charges. After all, there is a chance he might actually win the trial.

36   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   174/174 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 9, 11:48am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

this guy should write to wikileaks.org

37   lostand confused   210/210 = 100% civil   2013 Feb 9, 12:44pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

L.A. police to reopen probe of firing of fugitive ex-cop. While his rants may have merit, he killed innocent people -not sure it is a good idea.

http://news.yahoo.com/l-police-reopen-probe-firing-fugitive-ex-officer-032712647.html

38   elliemae     2013 Feb 10, 2:21am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

lostand confused says

L.A. police to reopen probe of firing of fugitive ex-cop. While his rants may have merit, he killed innocent people -not sure it is a good idea.

Whistle-blowers are fired every day. They shouldn't be and his firing should be investigated. If indeed he was fired in retaliation for reporting what he truly believed to be an incident of police brutality, those people responsible for firing him should be held accountable for their actions.

However, Dorner will hopefully be found and sent to prison for life (or get the death penalty). Unfortunately, he will probably end this with a suicide by cop or kill himself, so he won't have to face the protracted justice system. He won't have to go to jail and sit in Solitary every day, because he would be in danger if he were to remain in the general population. He should have to suffer every day for his senseless, violent actions. There's no excuse for murdering innocent people in retaliation for being fired.

He is currently holding hostage a bunch of people (listed in his manifesto). I'm sure that they are terrified and, in their own way, may never fully recover from living in fear of being murdered.

But these are two different issues. As I've mentioned numerous times before, I was a whistle-blower and was fired, then the company retaliated against me by getting me fired from my next job and continuing to do their best to create problems in my professional life. It took me three years to even begin to recover professionally.

Until you've endured the retaliation and humiliation suffered by hundreds (or thousands) of whistle-blowers nation-wide, it's difficult to fathom how it can affect a person. And that doesn't even take into account the financial devastation of losing your job and not being able to find another in the field which you excell.

Now it appears that the police are shooting first and asking questions later - and causing harm to innocent bystanders. I understand that they are paranoid, but they should act professionally and follow their protocols.

39   GraooGra     2013 Feb 10, 5:18am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

This is so funny, I needed to pass it on...

Former LAPD officer with a creative approach to dispute resolution - m4w - 39 (Wooded Areas)

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/stp/3607482957.html

40   leo707     2013 Feb 11, 2:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

MMR says

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't people who carry concealed weapons need to go through extensive training in order to have such a permit.

The training is around 20 hours so I would not call it "extensive", but you do have to pass a shooting competency test to pass the training. So, if at the end of the training you can't shoot, you are not getting a permit. At least that is the way it works in CA.

41   leo707     2013 Feb 11, 3:30am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

robertoaribas says

Really, the training is centered on what crimes would justify deadly force, and in AZ they are the death penalty crimes; murder, kidnapping, arson of occupied structure, etc.

AND stressing that you are going to be responsible for each bullet fired; miss the bad guy and hit someone else, expect to be bankrupted.

You can't instigate anything either. You can't start a fight, lose, and then due to your imminent danger shoot the opponent;

Yeah, that sounds pretty much the same as CA. It was a couple decades ago for me, but I think about half the time is in the class and the other half at the range.

42   errc   452/459 = 98% civil   2013 Feb 11, 4:07am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Here in PA, you got to the courthouse and apply for tghe permit at the sherriffs office. They do a background check, you pay a fee, and that's the extent of your training for carrying concealed

What fucking bizzarro world do people live in where they still refer to this wholly corrupted system of suffering as "the Justice system"? Eyes wide fucking shut-land

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

And we're forced to address these people as "your honor" LOL,,,,sure as shit ain't MY honor

This is a result of the Clintonian leftist wet dream of an out of control police state and privatized prisons. When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal. This rot is festering away at our society

43   truth     2013 Feb 14, 3:04am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Mark D says

tinted windows. cops panicked because they couldn't see.

Tinted windows? Their windows where DOWN. They were delivering news papers !!! What happened to pulling the car over and having the person exit the car if they thought it was him??

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