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Generation Poor: Gen X and Millennials losing ground

By Dan8267   2013 Mar 25, 1:50pm   5,681 views   49 comments   watch (1)   quote      

http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/03/22/generation-poor/

So if Gen X and the Millennials are so poor, how will they buy up all the houses?

« First     « Previous     Comments 10-49 of 49     Last »

10   Ceffer   524/524 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 7:26am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Just take the upper economic 20 percent of the baby boomers, summarily execute them, and distribute their wealth to those less than 30, but allow the sub 30s to go bankrupt on student loans before the plunder distribution, problem solved.

11   curious2   526/526 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 7:29am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Ceffer says

bankrupt on student loans

Check with Iwog about that - I think he'll say bankruptcy doesn't extinguish student loans.

12   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch     2013 Mar 26, 7:59am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

bgamall4 says

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Lazy fucks. Don't they know they're supposed to buy the boomers overpriced shacks for 10x what they paid for them so they can retire to live in Caligulan splendor after lifetimes of indolence and half-hearted effort?

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

While it would give me pleasure to kick plush, stupid boomers to death, it would provide me with endless glee to skull fuck bankster scum to death. That is true.

13   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:06am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

I think he'll say bankruptcy doesn't extinguish student loans.

that's correct. Only if you become disabled and are physically incapable of paying them back are they discharged via Ch 7

Ch 13 can put off payments for 3 or 5 years, depending on which plan the debtor qualifies for

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/student-loans-chapter-13-bankruptcy.html

14   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:28am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

California opted out of that

Not sure about that still . . .

AB 2244 was going to strip tobacco rating but that provision was apparently amended out of it.

Apparently AB X1 2 is the bill that's going to implement PPACA here.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml

says it's in the Senate now.

the stupid thing is that smokers probably save us all money in the long run by offing themselves sooner.

15   lostand confused   209/209 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:29am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

the stupid thing is that smokers probably save us all money in the long run by
offing themselves sooner

Well then there is secon hand smoke.

16   curious2   526/526 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:33am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

the stupid thing is that smokers probably save us all money in the long run by offing themselves sooner.

The tobacco companies tried to make that argument in defending against the multi-state litigation. The math didn't support them. Although smokers on average die sooner, they tend to use so much more medical spending that it offsets any pension and Social Security savings.

Regarding California's insurance exchange, it was a regulatory choice in setting up the exchange, I'll try to find a record of it for you.

17   zzyzzx   569/569 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:41am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

bgamall4 says

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

18   epitaph   34/34 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:42am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

LOL what trades are hiring these days? The skilled labor unions around here have dropped their fees 85% in hopes to get new recruits, but nobody is joining because there is little work to be had and the stuff that is available is taken by the most senior tradesmen.

The problem is that there is little opportunity right now and not everybody can be an entrepreneur.

19   edvard2     2013 Mar 26, 8:44am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Captain,
I can appreciate your stories. I for one am GLAD I too have had a lot of experiences like those. For example when I was in high school, college, and a few years out of college I did amongst other things:

1: worked as a bus boy at a greasy hole in the wall. Some of the more flattering jobs included using a large wet vac to vacuum out grease collected in the large grease trap connected to the commercial dishwasher, using industrial stainless steel scrubbers to clean burnt-on beans from 5 gallon pots, and wrapping untold 1000's of baked potatoes.

2: Worked at a large lawn and garden shop and the primary job was loading things into people's cars and trucks. Wouldn't you know a top-seller was cow manure? I literally smelled like crap after every single work day. No wonder I had no girlfriends.

3: Working in a huge warehouse that sold commercial cleaning supplies which seemed to be an employer of somewhat scary people.

4: Mixed paint and stain for a contractor supply place. On occasion the lids would come off in the shaker and more than once I got totally soaked in pink, purple, blue, or yellow paint.

5: Mowed people's lawns in 90+ degree heat

6: Loaded Christmas trees when its 15 degrees at night

7: Fixed windows and doors, replacing the glass. I had a huge wall mounted glass pane cutter that was in fairly bad shape. Every once in awhile the glass being cut would shatter. I have scars up and down my arms to prove it.

For the past 10 years or so I've had good jobs that pay well. If I ever have a not so great day, all I think about is that I could still be vacuuming grease from grease traps or mixing paint for a living still. Having those experiences made me REALLY appreciate what I've got now and honestly, I feel those experiences are what made me bust my ass in the first place and learn to appreciate the value of the dollar.

20   curious2   526/526 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:50am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

AB 2244 was going to strip tobacco rating but that provision was apparently amended out of it.

Apparently AB X1 2 is the bill that's going to implement PPACA here.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml

Here are two references to "tobacco ratings not being included" in California rating, with a union rep (whose organization styles itself as a consumer group, nothing in this sector is what it claims to be) saying how wonderful it is:

http://www.californiahealthline.org/features/2013/individual-market-reforms-called-historic.aspx

http://blogs.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2013/02/28/health-care-overhauls-consumer-protections-pass-california-legislature/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=health-care-overhauls-consumer-protections-pass-california-legislature

I suppose it ain't over til it's over, but the fix appears to be in. The priority is to maximize spending, and since smokers tend to be heavy users of the medical system, including them is a top priority. It creates jobs; ignore the costs and just focus on the subsidies we'll get via DC. It's the CAFO Matrix economy: inflate and intubate, every patient is a revenue center.

21   errc   451/458 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 26, 8:57am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

I'm (HS) class of 99, and I made sure to wack thru my obligations to the state as quick as possible, so that by the time I was a senior, I had all my credits and they let me sign out at lunch, and go work at a pizza shop. I was 18 in 99, making 12$ an hour managing day shifts at a local pizza chain. I was just telling my gf last night, how that would translate to about 30$ an hour today. Seeing as how its all relative, and my 1999 dollars stretched about 4x further then these worthless bubble 2013 dollars

I know when I went bankrupt in 2004, I couldn't discharge student loans, so I made sure to pay them off with personal loans and credit cards first

22   leo707     2013 Mar 26, 9:27am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

edvard2 says

1: worked as a bus boy at a greasy hole in the wall. Some of the more flattering jobs included using a large wet vac to vacuum out grease collected in the large grease trap connected to the commercial dishwasher, using industrial stainless steel scrubbers to clean burnt-on beans from 5 gallon pots, and wrapping untold 1000's of baked potatoes.

Sounds like you had it easy. At the greasy hole I worked at we had to clean the bathrooms which somehow occasionally got shit sprayed on the walls. Another bus boy I worked with had to clean up after a customer splashed blood all over the table while in the throes of some sort of seizure.

edvard2 says

2: Worked at a large lawn and garden shop...I literally smelled like crap after every single work day. No wonder I had no girlfriends.

You should have stuck with the greasy hole. Nothing like the romance of a young waitress and busboy left to close up together, and a fridge full of beer...

edvard2 says

6: Loaded Christmas trees when its 15 degrees at night

Hey! I worked at a Christmas tree lot also. At least there you spend 6-8 weeks smelling like Christmas. Even after I stopped working there, years late my rain gear still smelled like pine.

23   errc   451/458 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 26, 9:38am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

My favorite kind of weed is the piny smelling outdoors that always smells like christmas trees. I miss that stuff

24   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 9:49am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

bgamall4 says

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Lazy fucks. Don't they know they're supposed to buy the boomers overpriced shacks for 10x what they paid for them so they can retire to live in Caligulan splendor after lifetimes of indolence and half-hearted effort?

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

I think they are at least complicit - alas they voted for all those policies and keep piling on debt for the future generations. Don't tell me they don't know about the 1% ?

25   leo707     2013 Mar 26, 10:23am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

I think they are at least complicit - alas they voted for all those policies and keep piling on debt for the future generations. Don't tell me they don't know about the 1% ?

During the baby-boomers impressionable years the 1% was not near what it is today. I think that there was a degree of naivete and wishful thinking as they voted to give the lion share of their money to the 1%.

26   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 10:26am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

mell says

and keep piling on debt for the future generations

this is bullshit that sounds good but is not accurate.

The right always complains about the 47% who pay no taxes, so you can't have it both ways. Either half this country doesn't pay any taxes and thus has no future tax burden to pay, or they do.

The rich have all the money now so they can pay all the taxes.

Cutting corporate profits down to 2002 levels would eliminate the deficit completely.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/

Funny we don't talk about doing that . . .

27   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 10:30am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

errc says

and my 1999 dollars stretched about 4x further then these worthless bubble 2013 dollars

bullshit

$1 now is worth $1.40 of 1999 dollars.

What rents for $2000 now didn't rent for $500 in 1999, LOL.

We saw more inflation during the Bush Boom than after, btw.

All that money hitting the middle class boosted prices a lot!

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTX

28   errc   451/458 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 26, 10:38am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

You're correct, it is bullshit

Bullshit that 1 gallon of pure gasoline cost me .80 cents in 1999, where as 1 gallon of E10 shitty gas costs 4$ in 2013. Adjusting dollars for inflation will sure. Blur your vision

29   curious2   526/526 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 10:45am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Oil went from less than $10/bbl in the 1990s to the current $100/bbl, partly because of policy changes during the Clinton and W administrations.

CPI reflects a mix of goods and services including housing, but your personal CPI depends on what you buy.

Also CPI is manipulated by the Federal government generally to understate inflation, it has been adjusted more than a dozen times in recent years and every adjustment reduces the headline rate. For example, a TV has more scan lines now so it's supposedly worth more and the CPI price is adjusted down to reflect the cost per scan line. Nevermind that most people didn't upgrade to DTV until analog got discontinued, and CPI prices are never adjusted up, for example if your favorite show gets cancelled they don't say the TV is worth less or adjust for the fact you're paying a higher price per show you want to see. Adjustments are always down, to reduce the official inflation rate.

30   zzyzzx   569/569 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:00am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

edvard2 says

Captain,

I can appreciate your stories. I for one am GLAD I too have had a lot of experiences like those. For example when I was in high school, college, and a few years out of college I did amongst other things:

At one point, I had 3 jobs. One of them was picking up trash at the stadium after events. It actually paid decent, presumably because they had trouble getting people to do it, and it helped if you had a certain mentality.

31   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:02am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

and keep piling on debt for the future generations

this is bullshit that sounds good but is not accurate.

The right always complains about the 47% who pay no taxes, so you can't have it both ways. Either half this country doesn't pay any taxes and thus has no future tax burden to pay, or they do.

The rich have all the money now so they can pay all the taxes.

Cutting corporate profits down to 2002 levels would eliminate the deficit completely.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/

Funny we don't talk about doing that . . .

It's not bullshit, it is very REAL until it's solved until then everything else is bullshit. Who cares how we got there - everybody has their own solution and opinion. But the debt that keeps piling on just IS - simple math you cannot tamper with. Fine, go ahead and implement the grand plan to make the rich pay for all the debt. I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for, at least not in those amounts and the debt will keep ticking away. But it would be great if you could solve it, I'd even vote you in for president ;)

32   Ceffer   524/524 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:10am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

curious2 says

Ceffer says

bankrupt on student loans

Check with Iwog about that - I think he'll say bankruptcy doesn't extinguish student loans.

Nothing that a little benign, liberal "Obama legislation" can't fix. They'll all go bankrupt/renegotiate like lemmings if you give them the opportunity.

After all, education should be free, it's only right. Bailing out on loans is good life training for the young 'uns! Along with bashing the boomers brains in with bricks for their crimes, kind of like China's Red Guard.

33   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:16am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for

http://ecolocalizer.com/2011/04/02/top-five-percent-in-u-s-own-nearly-23-of-everything/

errc says

Bullshit that 1 gallon of pure gasoline cost me .80 cents in 1999, where as 1 gallon of E10 shitty gas costs 4$ in 2013.

1999 was the anomaly and it's total BS argumentation to compare then to now.

We hadn't handed over $3T of our money to China then:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

shows total trade deficit of the 1990s with China was $342B, just 2012 alone was $315B!

shows China has DOUBLED their oil consumption since 1998.

Asia had just imploded with their financial crises, reducing their demand,

Non-OPEC was flooding the market with production increases:

Nominal incomes haven't gone up 4X since 1999 so of course the price level hasn't expanded 4X since then.

Gasoline is actually a small household expense in the scheme of things. Households pay $4000/yr on gasoline, out of a $50,000 total income.

Housing is much more than that.

you don't want to pay for oil, switch to natgas, LOL

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GASPRICE

so much for your inflation thesis

34   zzyzzx   569/569 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:22am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

epitaph says

The skilled labor unions around here have dropped their fees 85% in hopes to get new recruits, but nobody is joining because there is little work to be had and the stuff that is available is taken by the most senior tradesmen.

That's because there is little work to be had for unionized labor, and the most senior members get to bump the junior members.

35   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 11:38am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for

http://ecolocalizer.com/2011/04/02/top-five-percent-in-u-s-own-nearly-23-of-everything/

Yeah, I wasn't arguing about that, but will it be enough to plug the deficit? What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect? Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

36   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 12:02pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect?

tax their US operations.

mell says

Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

propose your cuts, LOL

I'd cut $400B from the DOD, but that's a non-starter.

Much easier politically to cut 10% from social security payouts in 2040.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/25/three-reasons-for-social-security-to-use-chained-cpi/

37   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 12:08pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect?

tax their US operations.

mell says

Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

propose your cuts, LOL

I'd cut $400B from the DOD, but that's a non-starter.

Much easier politically to cut 10% from social security payouts in 2040.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/25/three-reasons-for-social-security-to-use-chained-cpi/

Yeah, I'd start with the DOD as well. I am just not sure that it will be that easy to get to the money with globalized operations. Then you are left with capital controls which will cause a flight to other countries.

38   Bellingham Bill   70/70 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 26, 12:48pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

mell says

Then you are left with capital controls which will cause a flight to other countries.

capital is not some magical essence that can be bottled and shipped.

capital is NOT money.

the core problem is that nobody knows what wealth really is -- that which satisfies our needs and wants (what I call 'direct wealth') or that which assists in the production of this wealth (what I call 'indirect wealth' i.e. capital).

Rich people want to leave, fine. They can take all the USDs they want. We'll print more.

The stuff stays here.

Note that in my preferred tax regime I'd tax resource production and ground rents first and most. It's tough hiding those from the taxman, and while global capital can sulk about paying high royalties on resource extraction, I don't see them boycotting Norway all that much.

It helps that StatOil is there to pick up the slack should the multinationals try any funny stuff though.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/08/15/Norway-Vs-Canada/

39   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch     2013 Mar 26, 2:17pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Die, Bankster Fucks, Die!

Our only hope is to appoint The Punisher as Comptroller of the Currency.

Petition Obama now!

40   Tenpoundbass   963/964 = 99% civil   2013 Mar 27, 3:22am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

bgamall4 says

Carpet laying is one of the most thankless jobs ever conceived. But, they used to pay well. Maybe still do.

I have no carpet in my house. But I don't know about it being thankless, sometimes I was tipped more than I was getting paid.
As for it paying well. Well no it used to, that's why I had to get out.
Pre Hurricane Andrew, I wrote my own ticket. I was in demand, stores, cared about quality work, and they were willing to pay for that distinction. After Andrew, every man with a van, decided that they were tradesmen of various sorts, and moved to south Florida in masses, diluted the market and drove rates down.
Work went from being lucrative and plentiful, to competitive and low wage.

That is why, when I got my first computer via a tile barter job, I set out to learn all I could. This was after hearing for over a decade that in the future all of the good jobs would be using a computer.

41   Dan8267   2511/2543 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 27, 5:12am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Our only hope is to appoint The Punisher as Comptroller of the Currency.

I would have gone with the Green Lantern as he can conjure up reality from his mind. Seems appropriate for our economy and currency.

42   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch     2013 Mar 27, 5:25am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

The Punisher is better at decapitating evil fucks.

43   edvard2     2013 Mar 27, 5:28am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

leo707 says

ounds like you had it easy. At the greasy hole I worked at we had to clean the bathrooms which somehow occasionally

Oh, well I didn't mention that aspect of my job because for one, its sort of a given and secondly, I'd rather not remember it. I always wondered if people who went to restaurants treated their bathrooms at home the same because I cleaned up some of the most disgusting messes in those bathrooms.

44   Oxygen     2013 Mar 27, 11:16am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

45   Dan8267   2511/2543 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 28, 8:37am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

The Punisher is better at decapitating evil fucks.

You, sir, are a worthy opponent. I concede.

46   Vicente     2013 Mar 28, 8:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Oxygen says

Do Millennials Stand a Chance in the Real World?

That article is full of horseshit.

Everyone's grandparents did not walk uphill to school (both ways) 5 miles through the snow. This is a delusion that satisfies people's tendency to worship their ancestors. You'd have been just as likely to find my Grandpa in a pool hall as WORKING. He got by, but he wasn't busting his ass either. Now mind you he wasn't planted in front of a computer (there were none) but I'd suspect he spent about as much time on the porch swing snoozing or reading the newspaper as any modern slacker. And your Grandpa may just be "remembering it like they prefer" when they talk about how hard they worked, just like that fish gets bigger with every telling.

47   Dan8267   2511/2543 = 98% civil   2013 Mar 28, 8:59am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Oxygen says

Do Millennials Stand a Chance in the Real World?

From article...

These troubles, many economists fear, left serious scars, and not just psychic ones.
...
The millennials’ relationship with money seems quite simple. They do not have a lot of it, and what they do have, they seem reluctant to spend. Millennials are buying fewer cars and houses, and despite their immersion in consumer culture, particularly electronics, they are not really spending beyond their limited means.

If you look way back to the posts from 2006-2008 on this site you might find a few in which I and others have mentioned that the Housing Bubble burst will cause a depression and that depression will change the Millennials' entire perception of the world including their career and consumer choices.

Before the Second Great Depression, Millennials would go to a job interview and demand that the employer justify why he should work for them, and the employer, needing tech-swavy workers from IT to marketing who could explain social media to the old Boomer managers would scramble to try to look hip to the Millennials.

Since the Second Great Depression started, Millennials have been hit worst and will take any job they can get, even a McDonalds job after getting a master's degree. Similarly, Millennials aren't spending money like they would had the economy been even remotely decent. And yes, these are lifelong habits forming.

I suspect that the Millennials will be more like the generation who entered the job market during the First Great Depression than like the Baby Boomers who never experienced a want going unfulfilled.

The thing is, we all knew that the Housing Bubble was going to cause a depression. We all said that the government should let the burst happen quickly rather than slowly and painfully or the depression will be worst. Well, the government kept propping up housing prices and yes, we have a depression.

In fact, the depression is every bit as severe as the 1929-1940 depression and that's why I call it the Second Great Depression. It started in 2007 and six years later it's still going strong. I doubt the Second Great Depression will end before 2017, making it at least a ten-year phenomenon. And it could go much longer.

Remember, we got out of the last Great Depression because Europe was bombed back to the Stone Age, so we had no global competitors and there was lots of demand for US goods to rebuild Europe. No war, even one as big and expensive as WWII, is going to do that for the US this time around. This time, we have to dig ourselves out of the hole.

48   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Mar 28, 9:17am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Dan8267 says

In fact, the depression is every bit as severe as the 1929-1940 depression and that's why I call it the Second Great Depression. It started in 2007 and six years later it's still going strong. I doubt the Second Great Depression will end before 2017, making it at least a ten-year phenomenon. And it could go much longer.

What depression? Housing prices are going to da moon! ;)

49   Tenpoundbass   963/964 = 99% civil   2013 Mar 28, 9:49am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

If the Evans(yes from the 70's sitcom show Goodtimes) had it half as good as people have it today. Then James would have never had to travel to Alabama for work. He wouldn't have died, and they wouldn't have canceled the show.

I think it's been decided, you can't be in a depression when you live in a house with LED TVs, and everyone has a smart phone.

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