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California a "failing state"

By tvgnus   2013 Mar 26, 2:41am   9,126 views   90 comments   watch (2)   quote      

http://www.centralvalleybusinesstimes.com/stories/001/?ID=23115

Flunks in transparency of government spending •  While other states are innovating and improving, California is failing California flunks when it comes to government spending transparency, according to a new report Tuesday from the CalPIRG Education Fund, part of the nonprofit California Public Interest Research Group.

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51   Vicente     2013 Apr 4, 3:53am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

NuttBoxer says

Are we no longer the 8th largest economy in the world?

Get on the bandwagon man.

This the CALIFORNIA-HATER MAD MAX thread. Everything must be worst-cased to ridiculous extremes.

52   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 4, 6:30am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

socal2
says



There is so much reform needed in California's pension program that it just
boggles my mind how anyone can claim otherwise


What I would claim is simply that you exaggerate and generalize to over state
the case.

It is not an exaggeration. It is a simple fact.

Stockton's biggest liability is the $900 million they owe CALPERS.

Seriously dude - do you REALLY think pension reform should not be part of the bankruptcy proceedings for cities like Stockton?

53   FortWayne   412/416 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 4, 6:33am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

marcus says

I have a problem with govt pensions much over 100K even if the people made much more in their job, unless their contributions to their pension fund (right out of their check) was plenty high.

I personally have a problem with CALPERS gambling with the money on wall street in risky (and shady) wall street ventures and requiring me to pay for their losses. And on top of that, not disclosure so we just have to pay and hold no one accountable.

That is my problem with the unions.

54   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 4, 6:35am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

marcus says

Quite simply, more taxes should be paid. Everyone with an ounce of
intelligence knows this. Read David Stockman.

California already has the highest combined State/Federal taxes for high earners in the country. We just raised taxes on ourselves a few months ago.

Are you saying that we need to tax all those poor hispanics in Stockton even more to keep the politically connected class of government bureaucrats living large with gold plated pensions for the rest of their lives?

Long past time for California unions to share in the sacrifice instead of burning their employers down to the ground.

55   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 4, 6:39am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

personally have a problem with CALPERS gambling with the money on wall
street in risky (and shady) wall street ventures and requiring me to pay for
their losses. And on top of that, not disclosure so we just have to pay and hold
no one accountable.


That is my problem with the unions.

These cities are desperate for risky high return investments - otherwise they don't have a prayer of meeting their pension promises.

One would think that issue alone would wise people up to this corrupt Ponzi Scheme.

It's criminal that cities have to raid infrastructure funds or raise taxes each year to prop up their underperforming pensions when CALPERS doesn't get their 7.5% return.

56   Vicente     2013 Apr 4, 6:46am  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

I personally have a problem with CALPERS gambling with the money on wall street in risky (and shady) wall street ventures and requiring me to pay for their losses

I have a problem with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs getting bailed out when they crashed the economy. A much MUCH LAAARGERRR sum. What did we do about that? Oh right, we bailed them out.

57   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 4, 7:00am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

Vicente says

I have a problem with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs getting bailed out when
they crashed the economy. A much MUCH LAAARGERRR sum. What did we do about that?
Oh right, we bailed them out.

I think most libertarian and conservative minded folks were against that too. Especially now as we have more information beyond the initial panic days of late 2008.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Besides, these cities and CALPERS were only too happy to invest in risky real estate funds when the market was hot. They were insane to think that the increase in tax revenues during the bubble years were the new norm allowing them to expand pension benefits as Stockton and San Bernardino did in the mid 90's.

58   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 4, 7:09am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

CL says

The incarceration rate has increased 12x since the 80s for drug offenses.

Yes... trafficking of narcotics.. why is this such a big surprise to anyone.

why do you think so many Mexican cartels are shooting up the border towns...

we are talking about 100 of billions of drugs inflows...

shit Pablo Escobar was worth 20-25 Billion alone..

what we see in our prison are the dealers and smugglers... Good keep them there!

59   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 4, 7:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

They were insane to think that the increase in tax revenues during the bubble years were the new norm allowing them to expand pension benefits as Stockton and San Bernardino did in the mid 90's.

so true... are the people at Calpers who made those same mistakes still making the same investment decisions. do they still think RE is the way to go ?

60   Facebooksux     2013 Apr 4, 7:20am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

61   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 4, 7:42am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

These cities are desperate for risky high return investments - otherwise they don't have a prayer of meeting their pension promises.

Aren't they also required to invest in AAA rated securities? Like, the MBS mess?thomaswong.1986 says

what we see in our prison are the dealers and smugglers... Good keep them there!

So, America has the highest incarceration rate because? We have the largest drug smuggling operation in the world here?

What are you trying to say?

62   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 4, 8:54am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

CL says

So, America has the highest incarceration rate because? We have the largest drug smuggling operation in the world here?

What are you trying to say?

perhaps if everyone went cold turkey for say 12 months..
all the drug cartels would go belly up in South America.

U.S. Leads The World In Illegal Drug Use
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500368_162-4222322.html

63   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 4, 9:43am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

64   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 4, 9:44am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

the other 1% ....

65   mell   63/63 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 4, 10:40am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

Criminal - but Alameda can always declare bankruptcy if necessary ;)

66   REpro     2013 Apr 5, 7:09am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

CL says

Having more people in prison, as we did, than any COUNTRY on earth (except China) is not a sustainable plan.

convicted by a jury made up of impartial citizens. so what! you have a bunch of

gangsters, thugs, criminals locked up.. thats where they belong ! some frankly

need to be executed...

and how many in prison belong to some organized crime

organization... lots ! there are no angels in prison today.

Thomas, you completely lost on this subject.
The true, criminals are CREATION of our society! Do you think some newborns have in DNA code imprinted “FUTURE CRIMINAL”???
Stress, lack of employment, broken families, money, greed, wars, and unstable future, to name a few are main creators of criminals. Also those are reason of modern sickness, including mental. Many industries see rise in this field as vital statistics, e.g. lawyers, private prisons, pharmaceutical companies.

67   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 5, 8:15am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

REpro says

Thomas, you completely lost on this subject.

no.. but we glamorize the "thug and drug" lifestyles.. they are the big push
in demand destroying neighborhoods and what could have been productive
members of society.

last time we did that was back in the late 60s and 70s... dreadful results!

68   REpro     2013 Apr 5, 8:50am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

A story just heard today a few hours ago:
A middle school youngster moved with his father (broken family) to San Jose from AZ a few weeks ago. Father got job transfer opportunity. One of first duties; he was asked to find an assistant. He did. Immediately after, the assistant took this position and father was fired. Capitalism-shit happens. Now Father is unemployed and looking for new job.
How much disappointment, anger, and fear the child can take. How he can concentrate on what should be the most important in his age – education? If father will not find a job, should he join a local gang to earn for living?

69   REpro     2013 Apr 5, 8:59am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

thomaswong.1986 says

but we glamorize the "thug and drug" lifestyles

It is not a lifestyle – it is a run-away from reality.

70   Vicente     2013 Apr 5, 3:01pm  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

These cities are desperate for risky high return investments - otherwise they don't have a prayer of meeting their pension promises.

EVERYONE was and is desperate for risky high return investments.

What do you think FIRE people do? Promise you can't-lose get-rich schemes. They do it top to bottom, left to right, every which way. And every single one of them is "above average" at picking winners somehow.

Pensions were MORE likely to take on shit-sandwich deals because..... they had the most idiotic bottom feeders working in pension offices. Who you think gets to be CEO of state pension, the biggest whiz from Goldman Sachs? No, it's some washed up fraudster. And because pensions were the lowest rung, they felt more like they had to "keep up" at least a little with everyone else who they were hearing were earning OUTSTANDING returns year in and year out. Yeah "You hear about the Bernie Madoff guy?" he makes money no matter what, we have to COMPETE with that. So let's live just a LITTLE on the edge and buy a bunch of real estate cause that has NEVER gone down for long in our lifetimes it's a can't lose right?

The banksters who lost TRILLIONS those guys got a pat on the head and bonus. Not a single high-level fraudster saw the inside of a jail cell. Now everyone turns their rage onto pensions because we gotta SET AN EXAMPLE right? We FORGOT to clawback ill-gotten gains from fuckers who lost billions and trillions, now that teachers and firemen and whatnot are in our sights let's demand THEY roll over and play dead. Teabaggers were a miserable fucking failure at stopping the bailouts, or doing anything about it afterwards, like they forgot the milk on the way to the store. Now suddenly amnesia gone, going to make sure SOMEBODY takes it up the butt why not Joe Pension? Wall Street's favorite whipping boys the pensions and the unions, they'll be the scapegoats to direct everything on. Good work!

I say if you can't even remember to prosecute mass murderers, it's past time for everyone else to get a free pass. This vaunted ethical system of capitalism doesn't mean squat to anyone anyhow it's really just "I got mine don't care how, now screw you!" You know the Wall Streeters who said in recent years I GOT A CDO INSURED BY AIG SO PAY ME! YOU WANT ACCOMMODATION I GOT A CONTRACT PAY IT IN FULL MOFO! YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR HOUSE SO SORRY MY MBS CONTAINING YOUR HOUSE MUST BE REPAID SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP AND WATCH US FORECLOSE! You see any of those guys feel accomodating and "reasonable" volunteering to take one for the good of the nation? NOOPE! So why should pensioners holding CONTRACTS feel any different about the matter? "It says right here in this legal document you WILL do so & so, so hop to!" Absolutely nothing during this financial collapse from the very TIPPY TOP examples says that SACRIFICING matters, in fact it would mark you as a RUBE, a mark, the biggest idiots who couldn't follow the example so clearly set in stone.

So you know, fuck it!

71   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 8, 5:15am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

72   FortWayne   412/416 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 8, 6:54am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

CL says

Here is a good read, if you have the inclination and time:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327?link=mostpopular3

Prison guards union wanted to make more money, so they sponsored the law... prison system grew.

73   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 8, 8:31am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

This vaunted ethical system of capitalism doesn't mean squat to anyone anyhow
it's really just "I got mine don't care how, now screw you!"

Isn't that EXACTLY the attitude that the public sector unions and government bureaucracy are taking as they let their cities sink in bankruptcy? Basically they are saying SCREW YOU - everyone but us needs to sacrifice for this mismanagement. Tax payers will pay more taxes for reduced services, bond holders will lose over half their investment - but we won't give up a thing.

The rest of your post is screaming past me. I didn't agree with the bank bailouts and have been very critical of President Goldman Sachs (i.e. Obama) over the last 5 years rewarding these guys.

But it is beside the point. These union pensions in California are unpayable under any normal economic condition. You just simply can't have DEFINED BENEFIT plans in the 21st century with our demographics and expect to stay in business.

74   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 8, 9:04am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

Prison guards union wanted to make more money, so they sponsored the law... prison system grew.

True, but you know they are equal opportunity bastards, openly supporting Republicans as they see fit?

But, of course you also have a compliant populace, voting for "tough-on-crime" policies when the rightwingers scapegoat minorities, a la Pete Wilson.

Despite their high pay, I haven't heard the state GOP recommend they get slashed like teachers, or attacked like other Unions.

75   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 8, 9:17am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

I didn't agree with the bank bailouts and have been very critical of President Goldman Sachs (i.e. Obama)

You disagreed so much you didn't bother to see who Goldman really wanted to be President? Goldman must've thought Obama's generosity a bit lacking to support Romney by more than 5-1?

And Romney's top 5?

Goldman Sachs $1,033,204
Bank of America $1,013,402
Morgan Stanley $911,305
JPMorgan Chase & Co $834,096
Wells Fargo $677,076

Obama's top Donors?

University of California $1,212,245
Microsoft Corp $814,645
Google Inc $801,770
US Government $728,647
Harvard University $668,368
Kaiser Permanente $588,386
Stanford University $512,356

Maybe President "Higher Learning" is more apropos?

76   Vicente     2013 Apr 8, 9:27am  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

Basically they are saying SCREW YOU - everyone but us needs to sacrifice for this mismanagement.

Ah yes "YOU should sacrifice!". It's always someone else, isn't it?

What are YOU sacrificing for your economy?

77   FortWayne   412/416 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 8, 10:32am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

socal2 says

Basically they are saying SCREW YOU - everyone but us needs to sacrifice for this mismanagement.

Ah yes "YOU should sacrifice!". It's always someone else, isn't it?

What are YOU sacrificing for your economy?

Isn't that the morality of our nation lately? Screw you as long as I got mine? It's a shame, because it is why our nation falls apart.

78   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 8, 10:50am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

What are YOU sacrificing for your economy?

so says the Government worker ... oh thats rich!

79   adarmiento     2013 Apr 8, 10:56am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

CL says

You disagreed so much you didn't bother to see who Goldman really wanted to be President? Goldman must've thought Obama's generosity a bit lacking to support Romney by more than 5-1?

Damn, the major contributors to Romney were the big banks :-/

source: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/

80   thomaswong.1986     2013 Apr 8, 11:00am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

adarmiento says

Damn, the major contributors to Romney were the big banks :-/

many people who worked in business and understood Business/Industries were
behind Romney. the liberal schools administration and the crazy ass SW developers
were behind Obama. thats pretty much what you see.

frankly not many on Obamas side have a clue about how to create growth our economy.

81   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 8, 12:11pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike (1)   quote    

CL says

You disagreed so much you didn't bother to see who Goldman really wanted to be President? Goldman must've thought Obama's generosity a bit lacking to support Romney by more than 5-1?

Goldman Sachs spreads it around. They were Obama's #2 contributor in 2008.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638

82   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 8, 12:16pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

Ah yes "YOU should sacrifice!". It's always someone else, isn't it?

What are YOU sacrificing for your economy?

I am paying higher taxes and getting reduced services.

Just last year California threatened to shorten the school year if we didn't raise taxes on ourselves via Prop 30. Now we find out that a large portion of this new revenue is going to teachers pensions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/california-prop-30_n_3007842.html

83   Vicente     2013 Apr 8, 4:26pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

FortWayne says

Isn't that the morality of our nation lately? Screw you as long as I got mine? It's a shame, because it is why our nation falls apart.

Exactly!

When Richy Rich SETS AN EXAMPLE then I would expect the rest of society to feel we are an egalitarian nation, one where everyone is equal. Finance wonks who blab in internal emails about how they know the shit-sandwiches they are peddling to pensions, but hope they get out with a bagful of money before the bubble pops, any of those guys penalized? Nope. Angelo Mozilo still living the life? Yep. Example is clear that "I got mine don't matter how" is what we encourage.

Of the many things I find wrong with China, their "justice" system at least gets one thing right. You are a high-profile person who gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, some SERIOUS shit is going to rain down on you. They like setting an occasional example, we don't even do that.

We emulate our 1%, and thus we become a Nation of Jackals.

84   Vicente     2013 Apr 8, 4:27pm  ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

I am paying higher taxes

Please post your tax returns so we can spot your mistakes. Thanks!

85   REpro     2013 Apr 8, 4:32pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

CL says

Here is a good read, if you have the inclination and time:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/cruel-and-unusual-punishment-the-shame-of-three-strikes-laws-20130327?link=mostpopular3

Sadly, but true.
Every significant event boosted by propaganda creates opportunity to seek public approval of new laws, which effectively benefit only super rich. Well, many people getting more education but remain stubbornly stupid.
http://www.ccpoa.org/category/news/private-prisons/

Thirty years ago in January, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), now the biggest operator of private prisons in the world, opened its first prison.

86   REpro     2013 Apr 8, 4:52pm  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

IDDQD says

Biggest mistake was to live and earn paycheck in this state in the first place: since fucking Prop 30 is fucking retroactive, by the time it passed in November there was nothing one could do to avoid higher tax.

Well, if don’t have money to pay retroactive tax, your friendly private prison will welcome you.

87   Vicente     2013 Apr 8, 4:53pm  ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike   quote    

IDDQD says

Biggest mistake was to live and earn paycheck in this state in the first place: since fucking Prop 30 is fucking retroactive, by the time it passed in November there was nothing one could do to avoid higher tax.

So a state tax increase from 7.25% to 7.5% is sufficient to ruin your fucking life. How fucking close to the edge of insolvency do you fucking live?

If we fucking increase the use of the word fucking, will we fucking come to a goddamn understanding?

88   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 9, 2:52am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

Goldman Sachs spreads it around. They were Obama's #2 contributor in 2008.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638

Everybody gave to Obama in '08. It's not a story that lobbyists try to get in the winner's good graces.

What IS noteworthy is the fact that they did not receive what they wanted.

In any case, a weird support for calling Obama "President Goldman Sachs", wouldn't you agree?

Ron Paul was the leading recipient of Stormfront donations. He refused to return their money. Do you think Paul is a white supremacist? Would he be in the pocket of "Big Nazi" if he had been elected? Was he in their pocket as a Congressman?

89   socal2   170/171 = 99% civil   2013 Apr 9, 6:51am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

CL says

Ron Paul was the leading recipient of Stormfront donations. He refused to return
their money. Do you think Paul is a white supremacist?

Yes - I have major problems with Ron Paul. He let Lew Rockwell pen his racist newsletters and Ron Paul is basically a 9/11 Truther. You are not going to find any defense of Paul from me.

My original point is that Obama and the Democrats are very much in bed with Wall Street money - not just Republicans. What has Obama done in the past 5 years to reign in the "too big to fail" banks? Banks and the stock market are back up to pre-recession levels while unemployment is still a mess.

90   CL   50/50 = 100% civil   2013 Apr 9, 7:56am  ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike   quote    

socal2 says

My original point is that Obama and the Democrats are very much in bed with Wall Street money - not just Republicans. What has Obama done in the past 5 years to reign in the "too big to fail" banks? Banks and the stock market are back up to pre-recession levels while unemployment is still a mess.

Obviously, the real answer is more nuanced than that. When and why did the Dems start appeasing Wall Street? When Clinton lurched rightward, it was an ideological victory for the Right. DLC Democrats acquiesced and became "Republican" light.

There are still a good many Democrats who want to break up the Banks. How many Republicans do? And how many voters will reward the GOP candidate who does?

Do you believe, as the right purports, that money is speech? Do you want GS to not use their money as they see fit? Why did they abandon Obama?

I mean, this is akin to blaming Democrats for the weak Labor unions, right? It's not what they are inclined to want.

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