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150 Years Later

By EightBall   2011 Apr 11, 11:16pm   1,770 views   19 comments   watch (0)   quote      

http://www.nps.gov/features/waso/cw150th/index.html

Is this something we should commemorate? Or is it something we should never forget?

Comments 1-19 of 19     Last »

1   Done!     2011 Apr 11, 11:25pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The Liberal Federal Press is still fighting the Civil war, except the Liberal media are the new Plantation owners and Simple meager earning white people are the new strange fruit.

[insert random picture here, of White person caught in an unflattering pose, and relate it to a Tea Party rally some how]

2   RayAmerica     2011 Apr 12, 1:28am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Maybe we should "commemorate" the truth for a change? 150 years later and most Americans think (if they even think about it at all) that the Civil War was fought in order to end slavery. It wasn't. Lincoln ... the "great emancipator" held to a position his entire political career, that Blacks would never assimilate themselves to life in the United States and therefore wanted to deport all Blacks back to Africa.

As far as Lincoln's position on slavery, he made that very clear as well: in his famous letter to Horace Greeley in which he wrote that "my paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

Recorded history is often what writers of history want it to be, not unlike the practices used by our present daily "historians" in the main stream media.

3   tatupu70     2011 Apr 12, 2:28am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

RayAmerica says

Maybe we should “commemorate” the truth for a change? 150 years later and most Americans think (if they even think about it at all) that the Civil War was fought in order to end slavery. It wasn’t

Yes, actually it was. Lincoln's feelings on slavery changed as he aged and his overriding concern was for saving the Union. But that doesn't change the fact that the South seceded because of slavery.

4   bob2356   494/498 = 99% civil   2011 Apr 12, 4:59am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

RayAmerica says

Lincoln … the “great emancipator” held to a position his entire political career, that Blacks would never assimilate themselves to life in the United States and therefore wanted to deport all Blacks back to Africa.

Lincoln certainly openly believed that blacks and whites could not live together as equals, but you have made an incorrect extrapolation. Deport is NOT what Lincoln was advocating. Africa was only one of the places considered for colonization. Lincoln's actual quote in September 1862 was "to colonize persons of African descent, with their consent, upon this continent or elsewhere". The words "with their consent" should be clear enough.

One of the big points frequently brought up is that there was an order by Lincoln in June 1863 authorizing a British colonial agent, John Hodge, to recruit freed slaves for colonies in what are now the countries of Guyana and Belize. Again the key word is recruit, not deport.

5   Done!     2011 Apr 12, 5:56am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Yeah everyone knows that all the rich White land Barron Folk in the South, thinks the ultra Industrial North is holding them back from dominating the world Cotton market.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/12/civil-war-still-divides-americans/?hpt=C1

Liberals when Reality just wont do!

6   Vicente     2011 Apr 12, 6:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

As a Southerner, I think it was entirely just that we lost that war. I laugh every time I pass that passle of alternate-history books where the Civil War went other way. I think I'd be living under the Third Reich right about now if so.

7   Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq     2011 Apr 12, 6:16am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

RayAmerica says

Maybe we should “commemorate” the truth for a change? 150 years later and most Americans think (if they even think about it at all) that the Civil War was fought in order to end slavery. It wasn’t.

Right from the Aryan Brotherhood and KKK talking points memo. Wow.

Too bad for you no historian believes that crap.

From CivilWar.com

Probably the single most studied aspect of the Civil War is that “Peculiar Institution”, Slavery. Slavery was not the sole cause of the Civil War. However, slavery underpinned the major reasons for the war, as well as played a significant role in the way the war was prosecuted and the outcome of the war.

It's conservatives who espouse the "Civil War was about States Rights" nonsense that utterly destroys the conservative platform. It lifts the veil on the racism beneath the robe. Once conservatives can fully purge this hateful mindset from their ranks will they finally be able to expand the conservative ideology to those other than angry white men.

8   Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq     2011 Apr 12, 6:29am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

As a Southerner, I think it was entirely just that we lost that war. I laugh every time I pass that passle of alternate-history books where the Civil War went other way. I think I’d be living under the Fourth Reich right about now if so.
“Eagles are dandified vultures” - Teddy Roosevelt

Being a Free Stater, it never ceases to amaze me the amount of cultural victimhood that continues to pour forth from the South even in light of Jim Crow and Segregation.

The South got their asses beat, yet they love to re-enact civil war fantasy battles and bemoan their sorry state in the world. They claim "the evil North re-writes the history" and the South was really fighting for libertarian principles. The noble victimhood continues with the minimization of the wretchedness of Slavery by claiming most Confederate soldiers didn't own a slave (despite the fact that Slavery's economic impact benefitted every single white Southerner).

It's sad but Germany has faced it's Nazi past much better than America has faced its Slavery Genocide. America has not a single National Slavery Museum despite being the cause of death of millions.

9   RayAmerica     2011 Apr 12, 6:54am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoCal Renter says

RayAmerica says
Maybe we should “commemorate” the truth for a change? 150 years later and most Americans think (if they even think about it at all) that the Civil War was fought in order to end slavery. It wasn’t.
Right from the Aryan Brotherhood and KKK talking points memo. Wow.
Too bad for you no historian believes that crap.

Check this out. I guess the folks at the American History site will be surprised to find out they're holding to the same position as the "Aryan Brotherhood and the KKK."

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm

10   RayAmerica     2011 Apr 12, 6:56am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoCal Renter says

America has not a single National Slavery Museum despite being the cause of death of millions.

The "death of millions?" Then you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

11   Done!     2011 Apr 12, 7:17am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

Vicente says

As a Southerner, I think it was entirely just that we lost that war.

With out a doubt, but when my daughter asked the other day. Is the Confederate flag bad?
It's time to strike the Roman period, WWII, WWI, the England Empire, the Discovery of the Americas all of the China Dynasties, the taming of the Wild West, and every period in History from the History books as well.
Lest some agitating Ass-bag from California gets his panties in wad.

12   EightBall     2011 Apr 12, 10:44pm  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoCal Renter says

It’s sad but Germany has faced it’s Nazi past much better than America has faced its Slavery Genocide. America has not a single National Slavery Museum despite being the cause of death of millions.

You lost me here.

Slavery was not genocide. It was brutal, ugly, and not right but it wasn't genocide. Just under 700,000 africans were brought to what is now present-day America and there were roughly 4 million slaves listed in the 1860 census. I am in no way defending slavery - but it was what it was and it was NOT genocide.

While the figures vary, Nazi Germany murdered or starved nearly 6 MILLION Jews. THAT was genocide. People did not purchase slaves and then kill them - they were considered valuable property. Southerners were not out to extinguish a race of people from the face of the earth. You need to get your head removed from your ass.

13   Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq     2011 Apr 13, 12:35am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

You all prove how ignorant Americans are of your own history. It is estimated that 2 million people died as part of the slave trade.

Seymour Drescher The Encyclopedia of Genocide
“Slavery as Genocide” (ABC-CLIO, Inc., 1999) pp.517-518

Unlike most twentieth-century cases of
premeditated mass killing, the African slave trade
was not undertaken by a single political force or
military entity during the course of a few months or
years. The transatlantic slave trade lasted for 400
years, from the 1450s to the 1860s, as a series of
exchanges of captives reaching from the interior of
sub-Saharan Africa to final purchasers in the
Americas. It has been estimated that in the Atlantic
slave trade, up to 12 million Africans were loaded
and transported across the ocean under dreadful
conditions. About 2 million victims died on the
Atlantic voyage (the dreaded “Middle Passage”)
and in the first year in the Americas.

RayAmerica says

SoCal Renter says


RayAmerica says
Maybe we should “commemorate” the truth for a change? 150 years later and most Americans think (if they even think about it at all) that the Civil War was fought in order to end slavery. It wasn’t.
Right from the Aryan Brotherhood and KKK talking points memo. Wow.
Too bad for you no historian believes that crap.

Check this out. I guess the folks at the American History site will be surprised to find out they’re holding to the same position as the “Aryan Brotherhood and the KKK.”
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm

Your link supports my arguement. Every single point talks about slavery, from the economic impact of cotton and the slave trade to the corruption of government. Also, you do realize About.com is like wikipedia - anyone can write anything on that site.

14   EightBall     2011 Apr 13, 1:24am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

The fact that people died during the dreaded "Middle Passage" doesn't mean it is genocide - it was cruel and inhumane but they weren't put on the ship to be murdered. I ASSURE YOU that if they could have kept every single person alive they would have. This is why it wasn't genocide. It was exploitation and morally wrong.

Go read your dictionary.

gen·o·cide -

–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

SoCal Renter says

You all prove how ignorant Americans are of your own history. It is estimated that 2 million people died as part of the slave trade.

Over 800,000 people died of heart disease last year. Are the fast food companies committing genocide as well?

15   RayAmerica     2011 Apr 13, 4:23am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

EightBall says

Over 800,000 people died of heart disease last year. Are the fast food companies committing genocide as well?

Don't give SoCal any ideas. He'll probably want to wage a Civil War on fast food restraunts.

16   leo707     2011 Apr 13, 4:34am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoCal Renter says

It’s conservatives who espouse the “Civil War was about States Rights” nonsense that utterly destroys the conservative platform.

Well, it is true to say it was about States Rights, but the primary if only State Right at issue was the right to hold slaves.

17   leo707     2011 Apr 13, 4:45am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

SoCal Renter says

It’s sad but Germany has faced it’s Nazi past much better than America has faced its Slavery Genocide.

While I totally agree that America could do a better job of facing it's slavery past as EightBall has pointed out it most defiantly was not genocide.

As deplorable as it was slaves were seen as a non-human commodity. In the transport of goods today an effort is made to get everything safely to it's destination, but "spillage" happens. Cargo containers occasionally fall off of ships at sea, and trucks full of produce have some tumble onto the shoulder of the road. I am sure that this is the way slave traders saw their losses. Lives were carelessly handled, but there was no intentional extermination.

And speaking of Germans here is an interesting bit of Civil War trivia:
http://www.mcwm.org/history_germans.html

18   RayAmerica     2011 Apr 13, 7:38am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

leoj707 says

Well, it is true to say it was about States Rights, but the primary if only State Right at issue was the right to hold slaves.

From the very beginning when the Founders were constructing this experiment in government, there was a great division between the Federalists (Hamilton) that wanted a strong, centralized government, and the Anti-federalists (Jefferson) that wanted sovereignty held by the states. Slavery had very little to do with it. Although public school history books typically paint the South as the only slave states, slavery was practiced at one time or another throughout the colonies, including the North. To state that States Rights is primarily about slavery is an over simplification of the real issues. I don't fault you for holding to your false opinion because it is a commonly held belief amongst the deliberately under- educated typical American that has been spoon fed historical disinformation their entire life.

19   leo707     2011 Apr 13, 8:12am  ↑ like   ↓ dislike   quote    

RayAmerica says

Slavery had very little to do with it.

Oh, Ray, Ray, Ray, once again I am not going to be doing your research for you.

The idea that slavery was not the central reason for the war has been around for a very long time. Yes, in fact even I have held that view in the past.

Ha, ha, it is kind of funny (and maybe a little sad) for you to call others "deliberately under- educated". If you do find it in yourself to actually do a little research here is a hint for your research: Look into the economics of the south. How much capital investment was tied up in slaves? How did this compare to the capital investment in the north (railroads, manufacturing, etc...)? What were the plans in the south for economic expansion? As the population in the north outpaced that of the south, how would the abolitionist views, held primarily in the north, affect this southern economy?

Just out of curiosity what other "State Rights" do you think that the south was upset over? What rights were they worried were going to get trampled on?

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