patrick.net

This is tempting. Its the WORST WAY to buy a house.
1. half of all sales are distressed (short,reo) so there 'is no owner' who would care. The loan owner in a short is mostly concerned with maximizing thier squat time, or getting a loan mod approved (meanwhile listing it for sale so the bank can tick off a check mark on a federal HAMP form that 'they tried 2 sell it'. If its REO you wont be able to find a phone # to call.

2. If its a legit equity sale you will only appear to be insane to the seller since the agent has them hypnotized like a vampire to believe everything they say. And if you 'did' 'get the agent in trouble' good luck on your next offer....there is a small circle of agents in any area and the more of this stuff you do, the more they will mention this at thier weekly meetings so you will have to outbid everybody.

Why not just use listing agent to slam the deal thru? What you need to understand is that once the seller signs a listing agreement the listing agent controls the entire transaction (almost like he owns the house) you cannot buy that house without him 'liking you' or your offer.

Rather than have a goody two shoes cop attitude, you need to adjust to the reality of modern business - get listing agent on YOUR side working FOR YOU against the seller to get thier price down (buy using them as buyers agent). Duh. I'm not saying to wave around 10k in cash at them to do this but thats common also probably.

Can work well for a short sale.

bmwman91 says

Dear So-and-So,
I am interested in 123 Smellysnatch Pl. and have been speaking with your realtor, Ms. Pendejo.

A+++, would read again.

You can most definitely do that, and you should!

Great letter. I hope everyone making an offer sends one of these.

1 out of 50 people in CA are Realtors or tied directly to the RE business...

We have alot of Realtors in California.. a rabid infestation of liers.

But PockyClips, if the sellers' agent infected the sellers' brains, then wouldn't hiring a buyer's agent lead to the same type of mind-raping in my own mind, along with some anal seepage and possibly erectile dysfunction?

But really, I absolutely could believe that doing this would get you blacklisted with local douchebag realtors and you'd be sort of screwed on future offers. They probably would talk about you at their weekly circle-jerks.

I've had the same thought. I've also been told about offers I think are fake.

Funny thing is I actually know the owners' daughter and I know they are retired in FL. I'm going to call them and discuss an offer and mention what these jokers told me.

Another thought I've had lately is- why not take the stupid 40 hour class and become a realtor just to avoid dealing with them? You could also start a business as the first honest realtor in history by exposing frauds and blogging about real buyer best practices.

I did something similar. A year and a half ago I sent about five letters like this to people who where attempting to sell their house. These houses had all sat on the market for six months, and where over priced.

I offered to rent their house out. Two answered me. One of them, had been similarly approached three weeks earlier and was about to sign a lease with their new tenant. The second is my current landlord.

I am looking to buy again in six to eighteen months, and I plan to do exactly this.

robertoaribas says

bmwman91 says

I absolutely could believe that doing this would get you blacklisted with local douchebag realtors and you'd be sort of screwed on future offers.

hilarious the stupid things people on here believe! Really? where is the blacklist? how do I put a name on it? You do realize there are thousands of agents... we really don't all know each other!

I have ONCE in a very long career found that an offer I sent wasn't presented. (agent was getting client to accept his own offer to avoid splitting the commission) So immoral illegal activity does go on, but it isn't the norm.

In my area of California. my so-called "buyers agent (s)" ( I FIRE THEM AS SOON AS I CATCH THEM LYING) complain that the listing agent does not return THEIR calls or emails! WHY? Listing agents always return MY call...! Why? Because the listing agent knows that if its an REO or short any BPO price that they did as a "high ball" to get the listing can be controlled AND they get to keep both sides of the commission. Buyers have figured out that with all the work the real estate vultures do to keep prices high and above the REAL market, they are still limited to the typical 1.5-1.5-1.5.1.5 commission split. This means that for every $10,000 of selling price the Buyers agent only gets $150 ---and subtract from that "broker office rent", "advertising" and a kick back to their Broker for "friendship" .

If I submit an offer $1,000 less than asking to the Listing agent (who doesn't have their own preferred buyer--in their pocket) , they will double their sales commission, keep the seller happy somewhat happy, and don't worry about so-called Buyers agents....who are really Listing agents with NO properties of their own to sell.

Realtors Are Liars says

Realtors are Liars

How about this one? "...ALL Realtors are LIARS..."?

robertoaribas says

I have ONCE in a very long career found that an offer I sent wasn't presented. (agent was getting client to accept his own offer to avoid splitting the commission) So immoral illegal activity does go on, but it isn't the norm.

Wouldn't just once be enough to write a letter? Just because it isn't the norm doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

"... If the listing has a broker, you can safety assume the broker is lying to the seller, gaming him and everyone around him and has him ensnared in any number of schemes without his knowledge...."

FACT--this morning I looked at the MLS and THREE listings I bitched about to BUYERS AGENTS AND LISTING AGENTS WERE WITHDRAWN---NO COMMISSION--- WHY? THERE WAS FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ...by the seller that was so obvious that the listing agent could no longer---hold their nose, and pretend they were deaf and blind. How about this listing?

ALL UTILITIES INCLUDED----but in the confidential remarks it says---needs propane, no electricity, no sewer, needs water well.....And this property has a house on it ..

I found a County NOTICE---a red tag- For the building to be DEMOLISHED AS UNSAFE---and handed that to the listing agent along with nailing it to the FOR SALE SIGNS IN front of the properties.

One more piece of junk that Realtards don't get to get a commission from...THIS IS NOT ONLY LYING BUT FRAUD.

HIDING MATERIAL DEFECTS....is not the same as pretending they are not there.

The seller can be sued but SO WHAT? Many are already homeless, and have no assets...that is the reason they are selling. NO ASSETS....so why not lie...Realtards have a contract that says THEY KNOW NOTHING ....read the agreement. It warns all buyers DUE DILIGENCE DUE DILIGENCE----yet if you want to be HATED by Realtors----do some DUE DILIGENCE-- THEY WANT BUYERS TO BE qualified and STUPID...

We have to put them in jail----a toilet in the house---witjh NO HOOK UP OR DRAIN----it says so in the "confidential notes of the MLS Listing"
I would love to give them a beverage on an open house and watch them run to the john to get their surprise---NO running water---NO sewer drainage---except the front yard! They tell me that its legal for banks to sell trash with NO DISCLOSURES---since they are "only a bank".... and yes---- more and more Realtards are getting caught and prosecuted. WATCH THIS report BY A BROKER about broker fraud...! Where are the Real estate police he asks?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/aLew-ikEv0k&list=UUr5LE6rAA-0M0vY9Y3XHe_w&index=62&feature=plcp

Experienced BROKER---- "Everyone gets away with it"...."A minimum 20-30% of short sales have fraud involved...it might be as high as 50%....have some kind of shady shenanigans going on to enrich the listing agent cause the seller has nothing to gain...or the seller is picking the offer that allows them to stay the longest for free...that's wrong too..."

"....Here is a 5 second listing short sale..." Watch this clip.

"...Even good agents get sucked into this...." There is no (real estate sales) guiding body to stop this...Its wrong!" Stop doing it....

Robertoaribas---WATCH THIS CLIP and tell me that the BROKER who is whistle blowing about REALTOR FRAUD is lying! We all see these shenanigans....look at this clip...

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/kswb-mira-mesa-realtor-eric-elegato-wife-accused-of-massive-loan-fraud-20120221,0,4019284.story?source=patrick.net

Yes, yes yes. You can totally do that, and should!

Agents think they are lawyers, and are a shield between the buyer and seller, which they are NOT.

By all means, reach out to the seller directly. Chances are, they don't even know the offers came in.

True story: My first house I bought (age 24), I offered asking when I first saw it, with the agent inside the house and the owners. The agent was "on the phone" receiving offers. (BS)

I told him in clear and a cold voice: "It's illegal in this state to accept offers after asking has been offered."

He pretended to hang up the phone, and said "Congrats on your purchase of this 'home'. "

(What a scum bag)

Icabod says

Another thought I've had lately is- why not take the stupid 40 hour class and become a realtor just to avoid dealing with them? You could also start a business as the first honest realtor in history by exposing frauds and blogging about real buyer best practices.

At this point, this strikes me as the most likely course of action. It's a rigged game, and in the SFBA it is so impossibly rigged because of the fat commissions RE agents can pull from the hordes of people with money burning holes in their pockets, that the only way I can see to get access to un-flipped/flopped properties it to get into the inside of the cartel. I just want a nice place to live, with a large detached garage in an OK neighborhood to do woodworking projects and maybe build a bouldering/climbing wall. Once I get that, I'd probably just stop paying dues & drop out.

This is most likely illegal for a number of reasons, but it would be humorous to sit in on some realtor meetings with hidden recording devices & see if anything egregious gets said, and then leave an anonymous recording in a drop box at KRON 4 or something. So, for one it is likely illegal to record private conversations/meetings. Also, as much fun as it is to villify all RE agents, I would be willing to bet than more then 50% of them are decent folks, and that nothing too wild gets stated in office meetings. Then again, I guess I have to go find out!

And of course, if I were to do any of that, I wouldn't peep a word about it until it was all done & over with. That's a long way out though since I have a lot more important things to do before buying a house (wedding this October, ROCK CLIMBING THIS SUMMER, autoX with local chapter of car club, generally fucking around while I watch the market slowly slide down).

"It's illegal in this state to accept offers after asking has been offered."

please clarify....

A house in New York area came to the market - asking price $375k. I unfortunately waited 2 weeks before calling the listing agent and offered $350k...I would've gone upto asking price if it had been shot down. "House has gone into contract", says the agent. I bookmarked the house incase the deal fell through. 4 months later it was still under contract and the agent said it was about to close. I researched the owner - 70+ old guy, wife had just died (obituary in local newspaper). At 5 months the house was removed from mls as sold. Sold for $310k!! I researched the new owner - it was another real estate agent who was waiting to sell her own house for $600k+ before she could close on this house. With the state of the economy and tough time for retirees I really felt sorry the old man got cheated out of serious money.

LarryPatrickMaloney says

"It's illegal in this state to accept offers after asking has been offered."

Yes, please clarify! Sounds like some state has a wonderful law. Which state?

Slightly offtopic maybe but a general question. How hard is it to work (mostly) without a buyer's agent today? This is what I would like to do

1) Find and visit properties myself. I don't want or need an agent to follow me around. And it wouldn't be fair to them either since I may decide not to buy anything.

2) If I am ready to bid, then maybe hire an agent or lawyer to assist with a few of the steps in the real estate transaction. Pay an hourly rate in cash.

3) Ensure that whatever standard buyer's agent % rate goes directly to the seller (and effectively "added" to my bid if it is compared to others).

Is this possible today? I have heard that sellers have gotten more accepting of buyers without agents - is it true?

"It's illegal in this state to accept offers after asking has been offered."
Yes, please clarify! Sounds like some state has a wonderful law. Which state?

Let's put the legal hat on.

First of all, it is never "illegal" to accepts other offers anyway. There may be consideration upon either buyer/seller backing out not protected under a binding agreement. you can't force someone to close an offer, the best you can do is ask for damages and is a standard term in a legally binding offer contract.

Secondly, asking/solication is not a legally binding offer anyway. There is no "consideration", and it violates the "statutes of frauds" and basic common law. No state in America will put in laws so conflicted with the basics of offers and contracts, so you will obviously not find the exception. (There may be something about advertising cars, but that is more for the dealer to not enrage with the customers, not because legally they will lose)

Thirdly, seller does not initiate an offer, the buyer initiates it, in which case the seller can accept, reject or counter, which has to be in writing with consideration.