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The rationale for Republican policy for tax

By Nobody follow Nobody   2012 Jul 23, 6:33am 9,013 views   25 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and
more jobs.

But here is my list of their (Republicans and T-baggers) rationale.
1. More money will be available to make an investment.
2. More investment money = more productivity.
3. More investment money = more jobs.

Well, my macro-economy book states that the jobs are created because
of the demand for goods and services. So how can an increased
productivity create more jobs? If one person can output more,
why do you need to hire more people. If anything, it sounds
like you can get away with less workers. Thus less jobs.

Ok, and if you have more money floating around, it seems it will cause
inflation. It seems that is the case with the gasoline price. Sure,
the demand for oil is higher. But money game is also a part of the reason.

Some people say that some government people are getting paid more than
they should. That is impacting our budget. OK, then let's raise the
tax rate for whoever is making more.

It seems whenever we need to cut the spending, the education takes the
first hit. Where would we be in the next few decades if our education
system keeps getting lower? Wouldn't we then really lose tax revenue,
cause most of the high paying jobs will be shipped overseas?

#politics

1   freak80   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 23, 1:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Are you questioning Reaganomics? How dare you! Heretic!

Everybody knows that mass layoffs and tax cuts for the rich create prosperity for all.

2   Peter P   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 23, 3:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody says

I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and
more jobs.

Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. See Laffer Curve.

Then again, Economics is a trendy branch of astrology.

3   freak80   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 23, 4:08pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Bueller...Bueller...Bueller...

4   bob2356   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 23, 11:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

Then again, Economics is a trendy branch of astrology.

That's pretty insulting to astrology.

5   Nobody   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 24, 6:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki,

Ruki says

Your macro-economy book was written by a Keynesian moron.

Tell us, does it even mention Say's Law anywhere in the damn thing?

Yeah, but you can also use Say's law to explain that insufficient demand for labor can cause unemployment. "That is supply had exceeded demands in some segments of the economy." per Wiki. Look it up, before you speak. Say's law simply states that there should be a balance and equilibrium in production of all sectors of economy. So if one market hoards all the money, how can you have a balanced market? The Say's law states that hoarding is irrational. But our current economy is enabling rich people to hoard all the money. That is irrational according to Say.

With the money they hoard, they invest into commodities like gasoline to increase the price. The demand itself does not explain the recent event with the gasoline price increase. So the rich can hoard more money from the 99%. How can you call that an equilibrium state? What are the corporation doing with the money they have earned? Keep it in the secret overseas' account? How is that good for our economy, if US companies, like Apple, keep the money out of US market?

Ruki, you must be super smart to be able to call Keynesian moron. Last I checked your comment, I was convinced otherwise.

Now in your own word, I invite you to explain to me how the jobs are created. And back it up with the fact.

Here is the question to many of you, then, do you really need the lower tax rate to make your investment? I am not convinced that only reason that you make an investment is because you have lower tax rate. I am more convinced that you make investment, cause you have a chance to make money.

Can someone sight the data pointing to the fact that there are more money invested before and after lower tax?

6   Nobody   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 6:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

That's why the alternative is called Supply-Side Economics. Demand is its own supply and vice versa.

Ruki, you don't really care to read about Say's law, do you?

Ruki says

Jobs are created when business investment demands them to be. An investor wants to spend $$$ to expand a widget factory or build a stadium, jobs are created. If there is a high enough capital-labor ratio, then unemployment goes down and wages then start to go up.

The investor demand does not support the employment. Only the demand for the products and services do. Say and Keyne both agree on that there should be a balance or equilibrium between supply and demand. The demand is not of investor demand.

I see you are not a good business person. Let's say you have tons of supply which you can't move. And you are going to produce more, just because investors demand it? That is called hoarding according to Say. It is bad for business, cause you need to think about storage cost, lost revenue, and etc.

The investors want the profit. They don't care or demand that products and services produce more. They only demand that their investment returns more profit. Don't complicate the motives for investors.

No, the capital to wage ratio has nothing to do with employment. It is profit (i.e. demand and productivity) and labor ratio.

No, liberals say that tax rates influence people's behavior. Let's say, if you are married with two children making $100K a year, 10% in tax deduction will make a huge impact. They will spend it. Adding it to the economy. If you are making $100M a year, 10% tax deduction does not make a huge impact on your spending behavior. That 10% deduction will be hoarded. Say's Law thinks it is irrational and ultimately bad for the economy.

But when the highest tax rate was 91%, we were able to build the highway system which we enjoy to this date, and education system which is deteriorating rapidly now. I don't care what rate the tax is, as long as we can maintain our investment into our future. If you are right about one thing. This could be it. More investment into our education should enhance our employment and future business.

No, business is holding off hiring, not because of the tax, but because there is a weak demand in our current economy. The tax rate has been the lowest for the last several years. So your rationale does not make sense. Besides, if there is a demand, I will be forced to hire more people regardless of the tax rate.

You may be a student, but you are missing fundamentals from the Say's and Keyne's. It is the Republican rhetoric, and on the surface, it sounds good. But their policy only creates offset in the economy in which Say calls it hoarding. And you should know Say's law says it is a bad thing.

7   Peter P   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 6:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Privatize the highway system!

8   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 6:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

Tell us, does it even mention Say's Law anywhere in the damn thing?

Why would it? Textbooks don't deal in theories that have been proven wrong.

9   freak80   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 27, 6:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody says

The investor demand does not support the employment. Only the demand for the products and services do. Say and Keyne both agree on that there should be a balance or equilibrium between supply and demand.

I believe this view is correct. For any business to be successful, there must be both

1) sufficient investment, and
2) sufficient demand for its goods/services

That's probably true on the "macro" scale as well.

Right now we have a huge number of unemployed people who.

1) want goods and services
2) want to work to help produce those goods and services

But they can't, because the economy is caught in a "catch 22"...there are few new jobs because there's little new demand, and there's little new demand because there are few new jobs. It's a structural, systemic problem that some individuals are trapped in.

Sure, some of the unemployed are deadbeats that don't want to work. But not all of them.

10   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 6:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

1) Say's Law is not a theory. Hence why it has the word "Law" after it

lol--that's not how it works.

Ruki says

2) It has been proven over and over again. Hence #1.

Could you please show me any time it has been proven correct? Especially in a larger, non-barter, modern economy.

Ruki says

3) Keynes' bullshit has been disproven repeatedly and never proven at all.

I'm not aware of any economy that really followed Keynes so I'm not sure how it has been disproven. Please share when it has been disproven. You claim it's been disproven repeatedly, so it should be an easy exercise.

11   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 7:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

There's plenty of demand in Africa for food and other essentials

Wrong and wrong again. Demand requires the means to pay.

Ruki says

Because if they did, then they would be admitting that they are out to 'nail the rich' and not for the benefit of the economy, but out of mean-spirited spite and envy. Since they don't like their true motivations being exposed like that, they thus bullshit otherwise.

Ahh. The conservative manifesto. It can't be that liberals realize that when the wealth disparity reaches current levels, the economy stops functioning. See 1929. The fact that people believe all this class warfare bullshit just shows how effective the Koch Brothers propaganda machine really is.

Ruki says

Which further proves that liberals are out to nail the rich out of spite. They KNOW that revenues from them will fall when taxes are raised. Obama even admitted to it back in 2008. So, it is really about stopping people from becoming rich out of jealousy and envy.

You make me laugh. Yes, when the top 5% has less money, the receipts from them will be less.

12   HEY YOU   ignore (8)   2012 Jul 27, 8:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No one's buying my products but with deregulation, subsidies & tax cuts I will expand my business & add new employees. ROFLMAO

13   Buster   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 4:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

Which further proves that liberals are out to nail the rich out of spite. They KNOW that revenues from them will fall when taxes are raised. Obama even admitted to it back in 2008. So, it is really about stopping people from becoming rich out of jealousy and envy.

I think you are reading the tea leaves completely wrong here. I have not heard of many trying to stop anyone from becoming rich. Nor do I see expressed jealousy and envy. What I do see and hear are people expressing the desire for the playing field to be FAIR. It makes absolutely no sense that mega millionaires/billionaires are paying total tax rates in the low teens or many corporations literally paying ZERO tax while wage earners are paying double, triple and more than these ultra low rates because all of their income comes via payroll and not capitol gains. You are playing the victim card here...oh woe is the billionaire. Nothing in reality is even close. People in America love the rich, and most even aspire to join this club, they also simply want to pay taxes at the same rates that everyone else does. Jeesh.

14   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 27, 11:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki--

Still waiting for all the examples you spoke of. I'll remind you:

Ruki says

2) It (Say's Law) has been proven over and over again. Hence #1.

Ruki says

Keynes' bullshit has been disproven repeatedly

I'm sure you'll be posting those examples soon, right?

15   bob2356   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 28, 2:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

Nobody says

Let's say you have tons of supply which you can't move. And you are going to produce more, just because investors demand it?

If your investors DO demand it, then yes...you will. They call the shots. It's their money. It's their risk.

WTF are you talking about. In a public corporation investors are called stockholders. The only shots they call is whether to keep or sell the stock and sometimes voting on company issues like mergers. In a private corporation most of the time the investor is a bank. Even when a private corporation is controlled by venture capitalists like bain the investment company rarely concerns themselves with day to day operations.

Why in the world would an investment company order more production of unsold goods? You can't book it as sales until you sell it. You would just have to pay to produce and store it. Makes no sense at all.

16   Nobody   ignore (0)   2012 Jul 30, 9:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Why in the world would an investment company order more production of unsold goods? You can't book it as sales until you sell it. You would just have to pay to produce and store it. Makes no sense at all.

Bob,

I was just mocking Ruki's stupidity. If you read my prior posts, you will get it. As you said it, it just does not make sense. That's why Ruki is replying to your post.

Don't worry, we just have one more Republican sucker who really does not understand how the economy works. I see how Republicans get to people with no common sense, logic or proper education.

17   bob2356   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 30, 11:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody says

I was just mocking Ruki's stupidity. If you read my prior posts, you will get it. As you said it, it just does not make sense. That's why Ruki is replying to your post.

aha.

Ruki can't focus anyway. He was talking about "investors" ordering producing more of a poor selling product , then he switched to r&d and new product introductions. Anyone that doesn't know the difference between production and new product roll out has a very tenuous grasp of how business works at best. I also like the part about the stockholders/investors ordering more production by electing corporate officers. That's certainly a clearly though out premise. Not.

Nobody says

I see how Republicans get to people with no common sense, logic or proper education.

I am reminded of Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets. Someone asks how a male author could write about women so well. He replied that he started with a man and removed intellect, intelligence, reason, and logic.

18   bob2356   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 30, 11:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ruki says

To deny that the Left is not filled to the gills with communists is akin to denying that the sky is not filled with stars.

From where I stand in the middle I see about an equal number of communists to my left and fascists to my right.

19   thomaswong.1986   ignore (5)   2012 Jul 30, 2:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody says

I don't understand how low tax rate would lead to more tax revenue and
more jobs.

But here is my list of their (Republicans and T-baggers) rationale.
1. More money will be available to make an investment.
2. More investment money = more productivity.
3. More investment money = more jobs.

You Live in San Jose and never saw this happen in Santa Clara County!

Surely your joking! Our County (Santa Clara) is prime example of Billions invested from the top global RICH making new industries, jobs, and higher collections on taxes.. Rich ... VC... Start Ups ... Industry Growth and new jobs!

Over the past 10 years you had other states and other nations trying to copy the success of Santa Clara County !! Today, the state and fed govt are pretty much killing our success we created over the past several decades...

You cant be serious asking this question an yet live in Santa Clara County!

20   freak80   ignore (4)   2012 Jul 30, 2:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Commies to the left of me, fascists to my right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

21   The Original Bankster   ignore (2)   2012 Jul 30, 4:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

when did this site turn into the International Communist Convention?

used to be good, now its shameless liberal shit.

22   Nobody   ignore (0)   2012 Aug 1, 6:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thomaswong.1986 says

Surely your joking! Our County (Santa Clara) is prime example of Billions invested from the top global RICH making new industries, jobs, and higher collections on taxes.. Rich ... VC... Start Ups ... Industry Growth and new jobs!

Wong,

I am not sure if you are blind or simply refused to see that Santa Clara County is still struggling to make ends meet. The shortage in the budget is forcing the school teachers to take furlough days. The social services is closing down more facilities that save kids from abusive parents. Like I said, if our education is not impacted, I don't pretty much care what you do with the tax. (So I see how Republicans are getting the socially blind vote, hence their rationale, "ignorance.")

What you also don't see is something I see living in Silicon Valley. There are more talents out here, thanks to the PAST generous investment for education by the tax payers. There are many colleges and universities out here that are attracting multiple talents out here in the Silicon Valley. So I personally would like to thank our past investment by the government.

Yet, at the end of the day no matter how much investment or talent, I can only keep my jobs, when our products sells at profit, like Bob said.

Wong,

I see you have no idea how Silicon Valley first started in semiconductor business. If it wasn't for the US government buying up the expensive semiconductor, the semiconductor business couldn't have taken off in Silicon Valley. You can only see a story like Facebook fetching investment money etc. on the news, unless you read a History book. You should try reading some times. It might make you a little smarter. Then again, ignorant will always be ignorant.


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