patrick.net

Call it Crazy says

You forgot home values and mortgages and other credit debt...

Because mortgage rates have fallen so rapidly.. Home price drops have not been devastating from 2009-2012.. unlike from 2006-2009 price drops. So i still stand by my net worth statement.

AKA...(You can't pretend your homes "bubble value" in 2006 was part of your net worth).

I agree, the dems need to empasize the difference in DOW/S&P/Nasdaq from fall 2008 until today. From this standpoint, the americans are clearly better off without a doubt.

No we were all better off when Cheney went around shooting his buddy in the face, and took us to war for greed. Definitely.

Most Politicians have no principles.

Better. Not having kids or a house is a big reason why, though.

StoutFiles says

Better. Not having kids or a house is a big reason why, though.

Big +1 here. Luckily, I am in a better financial & lifestyle position today than I was in 2008. Hopefully it stays that way.

I don't think that it would matter in the least who won the election in 2008. Big finance runs the country. Politicians are just a facade to give us peons the illusion that we actually have a say in anything. It is really funny to see just how much bad shit goes down because we are all preoccupied in our perpetual argument about which rapist is worse for America (D's or R's). Never mind that both are monsters.

Like most Americans, I was far better off 12 years ago, before Bush or Obama. Bring back Clinton or Al Gore. Hell, Al should have been president from 2001-2009 and we wouldn't have had all the wars, waste, human rights violations, and economic depression of the past 12 years.

Also, 12 years ago I could eat all the junk food I wanted without gaining an ounce.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/the-fire-last-time/

QUOTE:

Dean Baker has exactly the right metaphor for journalists asking the really dumb “are you better off” question:

Suppose your house is on fire and the firefighters race to the scene. They set up their hoses and start spraying water on the blaze as quickly as possible. After the fire is put out, the courageous news reporter on the scene asks the chief firefighter, “is the house in better shape than when you got here?”

Yes, that would be a really ridiculous question.

…

Let's see. Since 2008, my husband stopped cheating, drinking, and smoking...in that order. My savings and 401K have increased, but I'm older and a few pounds heavier, so I'd say it's a wash. The next 4 years should at least see a return to pre-2008 fitness levels, so they will be the best unless my dog dies. If that happens, it will be the worst 4 years EVER!

100 million workers kept their jobs, but their wages have been flat. Meanwhile, almost every daily basic has doubled in price since Obama took office. It is as if those 100 million workers had their paychecks slashed by 50%. If Obama allows the Federal Reserve to do QE3, you can expect to lose even more of your purchasing power. No, that is not being better off to me.

Regarding the stock market. We all forget that the markets crashed from 12,000 to 6,500 when Obama began leading in the polls in the 2008 election. The markets have only bounced back due to money printing and outright manipulation by the government. Maybe they can keep the fraud going. Maybe fundamentals will once again matter and the markets will go to 4200. If things are so great, then lets bring back "mark to market". Come on guys, prove to us how great the economy really is....

Cheeseus Sonofdog says

100 million workers kept their jobs, but their wages have been flat. Meanwhile, almost every daily basic has doubled in price since Obama took office. It is as if those 100 million workers had their paychecks slashed by 50%. If Obama allows the Federal Reserve to do QE3, you can expect to lose even more of your purchasing power. No, that is not being better off to me.

Regarding the stock market. We all forget that the markets crashed from 12,000 to 6,500 when Obama began leading in the polls in the 2008 election. The markets have only bounced back due to money printing and outright manipulation by the government. Maybe they can keep the fraud going. Maybe fundamentals will once again matter and the markets will go to 4200. If things are so great, then lets bring back "mark to market". Come on guys, prove to us how great the economy really is....

Really? Which of the basic necessities have doubled in price? Food? Nope. Shelter? Nein. Clothing? Not even close. Big screen TVs? Better and cheaper than ever.

Call it Crazy says

According to you, being underwater on a mortgage doesn't affect your net worth.... wow...

no, i said because of low interest rates... (manipulated, yes)... Home prices have been fairly flat since 2009.. so how do flat home prices correlate to lower net worth? Also, you'd be the first to say that inflated home prices was all FAKE anyway.. so fake net worth isn't real right?

rufita11 says

I'm older and a few pounds heavier

yep.

I think they should refine their question if they are trying to make a point about something else.

Dan8267 says

Bring back Clinton or Al Gore.

Clinton's speech at DNC was fantastic.

bg says

Dan8267 says

Bring back Clinton or Al Gore.

Clinton's speech at DNC was fantastic.

Dan just got down on his knees when Billy Bob spoke! But so did Monica!

Well, I'm making two-thirds of what I did in 2008, had to cash out a retirement fund to keep from being homeless, and lost the house I owned and am now renting for about what my first mortgage used to be. So for me, the figures don't lie. That doesn't mean I support Mitt. I'm scared of both sides, actually.

From my father I learned to be a student of history. I have studied the great depression. We have been living through a mini Great Depression 2. The politicians have sugar coated it and what is left of the social net has saved us from oblivion. Had President Obama not intervened as he did, we would have had cataclysmic Great Depression 2. I'm sure that it would have been worse than the one in the 1930's. There would have been incredible human suffering and social unrest. Violence would have been common place. In such unsettled conditions, it would have been easy for a politician like Hitler or Stalin to take power. God knows what would have happened afterwards. President Obama will get a good place in history for this achievement.

Are my wife and I better off than we were in September, 2008? We live in the same house that we did 4 years ago. We still own the same rental property that we owned years ago. We drive the same cars that we drove 4 years ago. We have the same television that we had 4 years ago. We wear the same clothes that we did 4 years ago. But our debt has dropped over $250,000 and our retirement savings have grown.

I am retired and my wife is a doctor. She has been spared the pain of unemployment. But we have suffered a lot of stress over the last 4 years.

Darrell In Phoenix says

robertoaribas says

the real question isn't "are you better off..."

The real question, is are you better off today, than you would have been with Republican principles in action the last 4 years?

Hmmm.... you sound remarkably like another nitwit who mischaracterizes and falsely defines.

Interesting huh Darrell errr roberto?

I think the Democrats better focus on what their own leaders do and say such as Mark Alan Siegel, Palm Beach County Democrat Chairman, said loud and clear at at the convention mind you!!! before any of them begin to slam Republicans http://youtu.be/QkOluULXTGw

Call it Crazy says

Unless you cashed out your retirement account on Obama's inauguration day..

Damn straight because I foresee that money slowly but surely if not swiftly disappearing right from under their eyes. The whole 401K crap is another ploy and round of bullshite in my view.

I don't ever give anyone the ability or opportunity to manage and control or hijack my money ever.

I'm not necessarily castigating the Dems, just citing reality - the vast majority of Americans DON'T seem to be better off today than 4 years ago.

* 17 million more Americans on full assistance in past 4 years

* Frozen median wages and annual 2% inflation each year (official gov't stats, but closer to 7% when you use pre-1990 metrics)

* 8%+ unemployment (again using pre-1990 metrics, it measures 12%+)

* $1 trillion in accumulated student loan debt (half came do in past 4 years) that can't be expunged by bankruptcy dooms our unemployed youth to poverty

Already mentioned 99 week unemployment (no substitute for a job, really), historically high numbers of home and commercial property foreclosures, and new highs in bankruptcies despite changes in bankruptcy laws 8 years ago....hopefully much of this will be remedied by the Affordable Care Act as 50% of those bankruptcies were due primarily to medical debts.

We are reminded of our loss of liberties during the past 4 years every time our mothers are frisked by overzealous TSA officials at the nation's airports. 'Better off' isn't always measured in dollars and cents.

Nope, it's NOT the picture of a country on the upswing, but of one dying for more life sustaining oxygen before expiration.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Are you better off than 4 years ago?

The question needs to be changed to "Which Class is better off" ?

Cheeseus Sonofdog says

Regarding the stock market. We all forget that the markets crashed from 12,000 to 6,500 when Obama began leading in the polls in the 2008 election.

I don't think that explains the drop. It was entirely due to financial meltdown as a result of securitization of mortgages via CDOs and the shit hit the fan when mortgagees started to default on their suicide loans that they were "forced to take" to "live the american dream."

I think that the better question is, Is America in a better place than 4 years ago? To that I say unequivocally, YES!

Is there anyone here who would not like to return to the prosperity of the Clinton years?

Automan Empire says

Is there anyone here who would not like to return to the prosperity of the Clinton years?

I was a student in college back then. Man, those were fun times, but financial "prosperity" is not exactly how I remember it!