patrick.net

The Professor says

Can anyone say that the banks are not criminal?

Courts.

Just because something is immoral and despicable doesn't make it illegal.

We should be outraged that we haven't made laws making what happened here illegal in the first place (i.e. the real wall street reform that Senator Warren wanted), but instead we're doing exactly what wall street wants: bemoaning how evil what they did was.

Kevin says

Just because something is immoral and despicable doesn't make it illegal.

We should be outraged that we haven't made laws making what happened here illegal in the first place (i.e. the real wall street reform that Senator Warren wanted), but instead we're doing exactly what wall street wants: bemoaning how evil what they did was.

There were plenty of crimes, no new regulations needed - just apply the rule of law and you could arrest thousands of banksters and politicians. Peddling and selling junk to investors - knowing that it's crap - while betting against them is blatantly illegal. Defrauding customer funds north of 500 million is illegal. Not to mention the war-crimes of the current and former administrations. This has turned into a banana republic a long time ago. On that note, the EUrisotcracy (or EUSSR) isn't really much better. Good times ;)

mell says

Kevin says

Just because something is immoral and despicable doesn't make it illegal.

We should be outraged that we haven't made laws making what happened here illegal in the first place (i.e. the real wall street reform that Senator Warren wanted), but instead we're doing exactly what wall street wants: bemoaning how evil what they did was.

There were plenty of crimes, no new regulations needed - just apply the rule of law and you could arrest thousands of banksters and politicians. Peddling and selling junk to investors - knowing that it's crap - while betting against them is blatantly illegal. Defrauding customer funds north of 500 million is illegal. Not to mention the war-crimes of the current and former administrations. This has turned into a banana republic a long time ago. On that note, the EUrisotcracy (or EUSSR) isn't really much better. Good times ;)

You haven't actually listed anything that is illegal. Which law was broken and by whom? If you're so sure it happened, it shouldn't be hard to identify one.

Large publicly traded companies have many, many lawyers. They are always sure to try to do things that are technically legal, even if they shouldn't be. The frequency of Bernie Madoffs is incredibly low.

I can list off the top of my head 3 common corporate practices that should be illegal, but aren't.

Kevin says

Just because something is immoral and despicable doesn't make it illegal.

Oh shit. The just-because-it's-unethical-doesn't-mean-it's-illegal-meme just won't die. Kevin, I bet you're a big David Brooks fan.

Off the top of my tired head: insider trading; robosigning; corrupt accounting (RE: Repo 105 abuses); FOA; and most recently, money laundering on a massive scale.

If you wanted to make the argument that *criminal intent* would be tough to prove, you might have a point, but there's no question that massive criminal fraud was committed by Wall St. with what has turned out to be relative impunity. Suggesting otherwise is just preposterous.

mell says

Peddling and selling junk to investors - knowing that it's crap - while betting
against them is blatantly illegal.

Why? Junk bonds are sold all the time--as long as the risks are outlined there's no crime.

tatupu70 says

mell says

Peddling and selling junk to investors - knowing that it's crap - while betting

against them is blatantly illegal.

Why? Junk bonds are sold all the time--as long as the risks are outlined there's no crime.

True if they were sold as junk bonds But those were AAA bonds sold as super-safe investments while they were circulating internal emails about how they got rid of this "crap" If you start selling junky goods marketed as in perfect condition and they can prove that you know about their junk condition (emails. witness etc.) you'll find yourself in jail in no-time. Even if you have some sort of report that states the good is in great condition (equivalent to the rating agency fraudsters they try to hide behind) you will still go to jail if you KNEW about the actual junk state of the good you peddled.

mell says

True if they were sold as junk bonds But those were AAA bonds sold as super-safe investments while they were circulating internal emails about how they got rid of this "crap"

I have tatupu on ignore, but it's funny that he fails to acknowledge that the most toxic MBS and CDOs were given AAA ratings and ultimately lead to billions of dollars in write-downs and losses.

I mean, this has been a thorn in the U.S economy for nearly a decade.

Credit ratings are a complete myth.

Kevin,

JodyChunder has a fair point.

For your reading pleasure:

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/12/hsbc-criminal-activity-above-law.html

The problem is that the private entities have captured the regulatory system itself.