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ObamaCare Tax Increases Are Double Original Estimate


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2013 Mar 13, 12:31am   26,904 views  140 comments

by zzyzzx   ➕follow (5)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/tax-prof-obamacare-tax-increases-are.html

The Joint Committee on Taxation recently released a 96 page report on the tax provisions associated with Affordable Care Act. The report describes the 21 tax increases included in Obamacare, totaling $1.058 trillion – a steep increase from initial assessment, according to the Tax Prof Blog. The summer 2012 estimate is nearly twice the $569 billion estimate produced at the time of the passage of the law in March 2010.

Patrick's code won't let me paste in a table here.

#politics

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1   Tenpoundbass   2013 Mar 13, 12:50am  

zzyzzx says

The Joint Committee

Where can I get in on one of those, is the head the Pot Czar?

2   Dan8267   2013 Mar 13, 1:27am  

zzyzzx says

Patrick's code won't let me paste in a table here.

Take a screenshot.

3   lostand confused   2013 Mar 13, 1:32am  

He should just rename it, "The health insurance industry giveaway act."

4   Tenpoundbass   2013 Mar 13, 5:29am  

Cut it out Nancy Pelosi, quit disliking everyone that bitches about the "Pass first, read latter" care.

5   Homeboy   2013 Mar 13, 8:45am  

"He should just rename it, "Thehealthinsurance industry giveaway act."

Really? Because they're actually the ones being taxed. The healthcare industry and rich people are the only ones being taxed for this. And that suits me just fine. Taxes on the wealthy have gotten lower and lower for the past 100 years. What's wrong with them finally paying their fair share for a change?

6   curious2   2013 Mar 13, 9:31am  

Homefool, Obamacare increases the tax on vaccines, for example. The mandate penalty is also, per SCOTUS, a tax. I wish you would actually read the legislation and regulations that you crave so slavishly, but as long as it requires everyone to pay for your toxic disproved SSRIs that you're dependent on and can't afford, it suits you "just fine" and you don't bother reading what it does really (or what those pills do really).

7   Tenpoundbass   2013 Mar 13, 11:41am  

curious2 says

I wish you would actually read the legislation and regulations

He has an illusion that the "Telepromter" Obama sold him, he's afraid to actually read the bill, probably for the same reasons,
I haven't given my self a good nut check, in years. We're just afraid what we'll find.

8   Meccos   2013 Mar 13, 12:09pm  

Homeboy says

axes on the wealthy have gotten lower and lower for the past 100 years. What's wrong with them finally paying their fair share for a change?

Homeboy, you need to qualify statements like this. First of all what is "their fair share?"

Secondly, majority of the taxes implemented are wage taxes. People who earn wages are not the millionaires or billionaires that are often portrayed as the "rich". You cant put a picture of Warren Buffett up and claim "the rich" need to pay more taxes, yet tax wage earners... Classic bait and switch tactics...

9   Homeboy   2013 Mar 13, 12:22pm  

Which tax, specifically, is levied on the middle class or the poor? Or is it gonna put a damper on your little bitch session to actually discuss facts? I already asked Dazed and Confused to answer that question in another thread, and got no answer, just a link to some right wing video.

Anyone care to volunteer some actual information, our will it be the usual "I hate Obama" bullshit fest?

10   zzyzzx   2013 Mar 13, 12:31pm  

Homeboy says

Which tax, specifically, is levied on the middle class or the poor?

Loads of new taxes levied on everyone. Didn't you read the article?

For example:
2.3% excise tax on medical devices
Limit FSAs in cafeteria plans
Impose limitations on the use of HSAs, FSAs, HRAs, and Archer MSAs to purchase over-the-counter medicines
Impose 10% tax on tanning services
Employer W-2 reporting of value of health benefits
Annual tax on drug manufacturers/importers (which means higher prices for everyone)

11   FortWayne   2013 Mar 13, 12:52pm  

lostand confused says

He should just rename it, "The health insurance industry giveaway act."

To be fair they paid a lot of bribes to get it. They call it ROI.

12   Meccos   2013 Mar 13, 3:06pm  

Homeboy says

I can't tell you what the wealthy's fair share is, but I can tell you what it's not.

FIrst of all, if you are gonna regurgitate the nonsense BS like "paying their fair share" know what the fair share is first. How can you ask someone to pay "their fair share" if you cant define it yourself?

Homeboy says

it's not the lowest tax rates in the history of the united states, which is what the wealthy enjoy right now.

You are really dense... LIke I mentioned previously in my comment earlier, the "wealthy" like Buffett and Gates are used as example of the "rich" needing to pay more taxes, yet the taxes that get implemented hurt the wage earners the most, who are not really "the wealthy" that gets portrayed.

How many wage earners do you know pay "low" taxes? The examples you and many on MSNBC quote are the 10-15% paid by millionaires and billionaires because the majority of their money is made from dividends and capital gains.

The "fair share" among high wage earners can be over 50% tax rates in places like California. Is that a FAIR SHARE? So if you can make 250K, you will pay around 100K to income taxes (state and federal) excluding another 10k or so which is being deducted for FICA and medicare (which you probably wont benefit from since its going bankrupt). So nearly half the gross income can be lost to income taxes, SS and medicare. This does not even include the various other taxes that are constantly implemented.

Homeboy says

I don't believe it's going to kill any rich people to pay a very slight amount more.

Furthermore, taxes should not be implemented based on whether people can afford it or not. Just because someone earned more than you, it doesnt entitle you to say that they should pay more or less than anyone else.

14   Homeboy   2013 Mar 13, 5:11pm  

Meccos says

FIrst of all, if you are gonna regurgitate the nonsense BS like "paying their fair share" know what the fair share is first. How can you ask someone to pay "their fair share" if you cant define it yourself?

What the fuck are you talking about, asswipe? I didn't "regurgitate" anything. I said I am not bothered if the rich finally are asked to pay a bit more than the historically low amount of taxes they currently pay. That is MY opinion; I did not "regurgitate" it from anywhere, dipshit.

Obviously you have a strong opinion about what the fair share is, so YOU define it. I don't think you can, because you don't seem to know what the fuck you are talking about.

Meccos says

You are really dense...

Uh, no. I'm rubber and you're glue...

LIke I mentioned previously in my comment earlier, the "wealthy" like Buffett and Gates are used as example of the "rich" needing to pay more taxes, yet the taxes that get implemented hurt the wage earners the most, who are not really "the wealthy" that gets portrayed.

Fucking nonsense. I didn't ask you for your half-assed "examples", so keep them to yourself. Don't put words in my mouth.

Meccos says

How many wage earners do you know pay "low" taxes? The examples you and many on MSNBC quote are the 10-15% paid by millionaires and billionaires because the majority of their money is made from dividends and capital gains.

What is this "wage earner" red herring nonsense? Instead of your verbal equivalent of kicking sand in my face, could we try arguing this on actual facts please? Thank you.

Here are the actual facts:

Despite your hysterical wailing, the only "wage earners" who get taxed under ACA are those who make over $200K single or $250K married filing jointly. THAT IS APPROXIMATELY 2 PERCENT OF THE US POPULATION. If you do not define the top 2 percent as "wealthy", you are either out of your mind, or a total jackass. AND, the tax is only a measly 0.9%.

More facts:

The tax rate for a single person making over $200K, inflation-adjusted, in 1975 was SIXTY TWO PERCENT. It is now 33%. These top 2% wage earners pay just slightly more than HALF what they would have paid in 1975, and you are crying about a 0.9% increase to fund the ACA, so that people can actually get health coverage and not have to die from not getting medical care.

Here's you: WAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!

God, it never ceases to amaze me what self-entitled assholes rich people are.

Meccos says

Furthermore, taxes should not be implemented based on whether people can afford it or not. Just because someone earned more than you, it doesnt entitle you to say that they should pay more or less than anyone else.

Of course it does. It's called progressive taxation. IF you make more, you pay a higher percentage in taxes. We've had it almost as long as we've had taxes. Right now, taxes are decidedly less progressive than at any other time in the history of this country, and you're still gonna bitch about that? Again, all I have to say is WAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

16   zzyzzx   2013 Mar 13, 11:17pm  

Homeboy says

This is alarmist nonsense. The only "wage earners" who are taxed are a very small minority of the wealthiest people in the country

No, these new taxes apply to EVERYONE:

zzyzzx says

For example:

2.3% excise tax on medical devices

Limit FSAs in cafeteria plans

Impose limitations on the use of HSAs, FSAs, HRAs, and Archer MSAs to purchase over-the-counter medicines

Impose 10% tax on tanning services

Employer W-2 reporting of value of health benefits

Annual tax on drug manufacturers/importers (which means higher prices for everyone)

17   zzyzzx   2013 Mar 14, 10:02am  

Homeboy says

Despite your hysterical wailing, the only "wage earners" who get taxed under ACA are those who make over $200K single or $250K married filing jointly. THAT IS APPROXIMATELY 2 PERCENT OF THE US POPULATION. If you do not define the top 2 percent as "wealthy", you are either out of your mind, or a total jackass. AND, the tax is only a measly 0.9%.

Nope. Try rereading my post about all the new taxes being levied on everyone. For example, the tanning salon tax applies to anyone stupid enough to use their services, irregardless of income. What part of that don't you understand?

18   Meccos   2013 Mar 14, 11:10am  

Homeboy says

What the fuck are you talking about, asswipe?

Angry much? Homeboy says

I didn't "regurgitate" anything.

I suppose you came up with the phrase "pay their fair share"

Homeboy says

I said I am not bothered if the rich finally are asked to pay a bit more than the historically low amount of taxes they currently pay.

Again the bait and switch. "the rich" like buffet, Gates, Romney pay low taxes. However most new taxes that are implemented actually tax the wage earners, not these "rich". Some of these new taxes place these wage earners over the 50% rate, however they dont really affect the millionaires and billionaires like Buffett and Gates.
Homeboy says

Obviously you have a strong opinion about what the fair share is, so YOU define it. I don't think you can, because you don't seem to know what the fuck you are talking about.

You are the one who suggested people pay their fair share, not me. So how can you ask people to "pay their fair share" if you cant even define what the fair share is? If you want to know what I think a fair share is, I would say a 15% flat tax with no deductions for everyone. THis is a separate issue however and can be discussed somewhere else.

Homeboy says

Uh, no. I'm rubber and you're glue...

Really? hahah

Homeboy says

LIke I mentioned previously in my comment earlier, the "wealthy" like Buffett and Gates are used as example of the "rich" needing to pay more taxes, yet the taxes that get implemented hurt the wage earners the most, who are not really "the wealthy" that gets portrayed.

Fucking nonsense. I didn't ask you for your half-assed "examples", so keep them to yourself. Don't put words in my mouth.

hey homecheese.. why are you so mad?

19   Meccos   2013 Mar 14, 11:13am  

Homeboy says

Of course it does. It's called progressive taxation.

Just because we have a progressive taxation in place doesnt make it ok for you to dictate other peoples taxes. Its easy to dictate a policy when you have no skin in the game...

20   Meccos   2013 Mar 14, 2:15pm  

what errors?

21   curious2   2013 Mar 14, 2:20pm  

Meccos says

It is an opinion, how can that be an error?

LOL! You sound like the most incompetent doctor ever. You can't acknowledge error, and can't even understand how an opinion disproved by all observable evidence is in fact error. Someone should diagnose you as mentally incompetent and in need of being committed, as a danger to yourself and others; that's an opinion supported by evidence.

Meccos says

Unfortunately many of your previous posts make it appear as if you do hate physicians. You commonly interchange "doctors" with the "AMA".

Please provide even one example to support your claims of "many" and "commonly", otherwise it appears to be your misreading or hallucinations. Also I have consistently blamed ObamaCare on PhRMA and AHIP, and their deluded dependents (e.g. Homefool), in addition to AHA and AMA.

22   curious2   2013 Mar 14, 2:37pm  

Meccos, none of those comments conveys dislike (let alone hatred) of doctors in general, though Homefool's pushers are not worthy of the defense that you are now attempting to provide them.

But maybe it isn't their fault, maybe they were beaten about the head and neck by a stampede of unicorns, if that's your professional medical opinion how can it possibly be an error?

23   curious2   2013 Mar 14, 2:39pm  

Meccos says

i had to post the above twice cuz someeone keeps deleting

They did you a favor, and you should have been grateful, but your inability to admit error prevented you from seeing that.

24   curious2   2013 Mar 14, 2:49pm  

Meccos says

Why you are so defensive about this?

Your opinion contrary to evidence is error, and you are the one defending it. Saying that certain practitioners of a profession (e.g. Homefool's pushers) are overpaid does not, in any way, imply hatred or dislike of everyone in that profession. But, in your inability to recognize even the possibility of your being in error, you do corroborate a stereotype about incompetent physicians. Note that I referred to incompetent physicians, not physicians in general.

25   curious2   2013 Mar 14, 3:01pm  

Meccos says

you have been quite defensive

So when people prove you wrong, they are being "defensive" because your opinion is infallible. I am guessing you must have been recently elected to an office that I had not previously associated with the medical profession.

Meccos says

you have a fairly long history of negative comments on this forum about overpaid doctors....

Only because defensive posters like you deny such possibility could even exist, which generates a long history wasting time. I will add one entry to my fairly specific list of which doctors are overpaid: you. Whatever time you spent in medical school did not teach you the basic humility required to practice medicine, including especially the ability to admit when you are wrong.

26   Homeboy   2013 Mar 14, 5:59pm  

CaptainShuddup says

He has an illusion that the "Telepromter" Obama sold him, he's afraid to actually read the bill, probably for the same reasons,

I really should visit your universe sometime. It seems very interesting. In fact, I am pretty much the ONLY one on this forum who has any fucking clue what's in the law. The rest of you are just ranting about nothing. The level of ignorance is astounding.

27   zzyzzx   2013 Mar 14, 11:15pm  

Homeboy says

I really should visit your universe sometime. It seems very interesting. In fact, I am pretty much the ONLY one on this forum who has any fucking clue what's in the law. The rest of you are just ranting about nothing. The level of ignorance is astounding.

Your level of ignorance is astonishing!

Listen Gobbels, repeating lies isn't going to work here. The facts are that Obamacare is a tax increase on everyone including people who make below a certain amount. If you are going to keep repeating that lie, even after I offer tangible examples, yeah, I'll keep on deleting them. Those by you and the one liners by your alias.

28   zzyzzx   2013 Mar 14, 11:19pm  

Meccos says

Its easy to dictate a policy when you have no skin in the game...

Pretty much what the liberals are doing, since most of them are the 47% that don't pay income taxes.

29   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:07am  

curious2 says

Meccos says

hey homecheese.. why are you so mad?

It's a side effect of his "not habit forming" SSRIs, upon which he has become physically dependent. He insists that they're helping even though obviously they aren't. But, they are prescribed by licensed physicians, so it will be interesting to see whether you defend them.

Curious, I realize how much you hate physicians. Let me give you some advice... just stop going to them. BTW i have no problems with you bashing on homecheese...

30   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

They did you a favor, and you should have been grateful, but your inability to admit error prevented you from seeing that.

Go talk to homecheese to get some of his antipsych meds.. i think you really need it.

31   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

Meccos says

I realize how much you hate physicians.

Then you're hallucinating, maybe you've got into Homefool's pills. I don't hate physicians in general, though I disagree with the AMA (which represents less than 20% of physicians) and its financially motivated decision to support ObamaCare in exchange for imposing its Byzantine and incomprehensible billing codes upon everyone.

Unfortunately many of your previous posts make it appear as if you do hate physicians. You commonly interchange "doctors" with the "AMA". Furthermore, if you are so against financially motivated groups or unions in medicine, you may want to look closer at big pharma and even better, the nursing unions...

BTW, i do not know any physician who wants to complicate the billing codes. You may want to look into the insurance industry and even the medicare who actually want to complicate billing codes in order to not pay for services rendered... overwhelming majority of physicians have little to no advantage in more complicated billing codes.

BTW it would be hard to

32   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

well curious if you are constantly saying negative things about physicians and their profession, I do not think it is an error to state that it appears you have something against them. It is an opinion, how can that be an error? You can refute it all you want, regardless my opinion about how you appear to me cant be an error...

33   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

Meccos says

It is an opinion, how can that be an error?

LOL! You sound like the most incompetent doctor ever. You can't acknowledge error, and can't even understand how an opinion contrary to all observable evidence is in fact error.

Yes I must be an incompetent doctor because I have an opinion about you. hahaha perhaps you should be placed on the SSRI rather than homecheese.

curious2 says

Please provide even one example to support your claims of "many" and "commonly",

Here are a few. let me jsut copy and paste for sake of ease...

"But, they are prescribed by licensed physicians, so it will be interesting to see whether you defend them."

"I continue though to believe that Homefool's SSRI pushers are overpaid because we are all required to pay them even when they confer no value, e.g. the cost of his disproved SSRI coverage must be shifted onto all of us because he can't afford it on his own, nevermind that it does no good for anyone."

"Less than a century ago, doctors made house calls, stated honest prices and stuck to them, worked for their patients, and made a good living. Those doctors were not overpaid, even though of course people complain about having to pay any expense, even options like cable TV."

"Homefool's doctors are overpaid to keep him addicted to the "not habit forming" pills upon which he has become physically dependent."

There are just a few comments you made which CAN make you appear to have a dislike for physicians. this was after a 2 mins scan of your previous post...

34   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

Meccos says

It is an opinion, how can that be an error?

LOL! You sound like the most incompetent doctor ever. You can't acknowledge error, and can't even understand how an opinion disproved by all observable evidence is in fact error.

You asked for one, but here are a few. let me jsut copy and paste for sake of ease...

"But, they are prescribed by licensed physicians, so it will be interesting to see whether you defend them."

"I continue though to believe that Homefool's SSRI pushers are overpaid because we are all required to pay them even when they confer no value, e.g. the cost of his disproved SSRI coverage must be shifted onto all of us because he can't afford it on his own, nevermind that it does no good for anyone."

"Less than a century ago, doctors made house calls, stated honest prices and stuck to them, worked for their patients, and made a good living. Those doctors were not overpaid, even though of course people complain about having to pay any expense, even options like cable TV."

"Homefool's doctors are overpaid to keep him addicted to the "not habit forming" pills upon which he has become physically dependent."

There are just a few comments you made which CAN make you appear to have a dislike for physicians. this was after a 2 mins scan of your previous post...

Yes I must be an incompetent doctor because I have an opinion about you. hahaha perhaps you should be placed on the SSRI rather than homecheese.

curious2 says

Please provide even one example to support your claims of "many" and "commonly",

35   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

Meccos, none of those comments conveys dislike (let alone hatred) of doctors in general, though Homefool's pushers are not worthy of the defense that you are now attempting to provide them.

But maybe it isn't their fault, maybe they were beaten about the head and neck by a stampede of unicorns, if that's your professional medical opinion how can it possibly be error?

Curious I find it odd that you get so defensive of the fact that I THINK you have a dislike for physicians. Why you are so defensive about this? The fact that you cant accept one persons opinion and go so far as to say one's opinion (based on observations) is an "error" leads to me think that you are either arrogant or.. or jsut arrogant.
The problem is that you have many previous posts in which you do post things to belittle physicians and the profession. Thats a fact. Otherwise you may want to consider paying some overpaid psychiatrist to put you the on antipsych meds you need to be on... better yet, have some non-licensed non-qualified phony as you would prefer...

36   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

curious2 says

Your opinion contrary to evidence is error

an opinion in regards to a personal feeling cannot be an error.

curious2 says

you are the one defending it.

um, no. i made a claim about the appearance of you disliking physicians and since then you have been quite defensive

curious2 says

Saying that certain practitioners of a profession (e.g. Homefool's pushers) are overpaid does not, in any way, imply hatred or dislike of everyone in that profession.

If it was simply just that one comment, I would agree. However you have a fairly long history of negative comments on this forum about overpaid doctors, monopolies on medical practice, doctors being drug pushers etc etc... which in totality leads me to my OPINION that you dislike physicians.

37   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:09am  

Curious the single fact that you are arguing about my OPINION is quite ridiculous and leads me to think that you cant see beyond your own thoughts...

38   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:10am  

curious2 says

So when people prove you wrong, they are being "defensive" because your opinion is infallible. I am guessing you must have been recently elected to an office that I had not previously associated with the medical profession.

Perhaps if you can actually prove me wrong I could reconsider. However do you deny that you have written numerous posts about overpaid doctors, monopolies in medical practices, doctors being drug pushers etc etc? Does not give a person some reason to believe you dislike physicians?

curious2 says

Only because defensive posters like you deny such possibility could even exist, which generates a long history wasting time. I will add one entry to my fairly specific list of which doctors are overpaid: you. Whatever time you spent in medical school did not teach you the basic humility required to practice medicine, including especially the ability to admit when you are wrong.

Yes I am a horrible physician. Unfortunately my patients do not think so, however I do not need to convince you since you clearly dislike physicians anyways. Oh and all the money I make... damn i dont even know what to do with it all....

39   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:10am  

curious2 says

So when people prove you wrong,

Perhaps if you can actually prove me wrong I could reconsider. However do you deny that you have written numerous posts about overpaid doctors, monopolies in medical practices, doctors being drug pushers etc etc? Does not give a person some reason to believe you dislike physicians?

curious2 says

I will add one entry to my fairly specific list of which doctors are overpaid: you. Whatever time you spent in medical school did not teach you the basic humility required to practice medicine.

Yes I am a horrible physician. Unfortunately my patients do not think so, however I do not need to convince you since you clearly dislike physicians anyways. Oh and all the money I make... damn i dont even know what to do with it all....

40   Meccos   2013 Mar 15, 1:11am  

Curious i think your panties are in a bunch right now...

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