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Tacitus and the Talking Cow, Herodotus and the Mule That Birthed


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2013 Apr 29, 7:08am   1,714 views  3 comments

by MisdemeanorRebel   ➕follow (12)   💰tip   ignore  

The Roman historian Tacitus records, among various other supernatural prodigies, which occurred in the year 69 CE during the brief reign of Otho, which lasted from January to April, that a cow in Etruria had actually spoken in human language (Hist. 1.86). Tacitus’ claim of a cow speaking is very precise, as I can trace it to a specific year, a span of only a few months, and a specific location (moreover Tacitus is actually a historical source).

I doubt this claim, not because I have a contrary history stating otherwise, but because I know that it is extraordinarily unlikely that cows would be able to speak in human language today! And by the principle of uniformitarianism, I can infer that this was likewise extraordinarily unlikely 2,000 years ago. Can I supply a contrary history from another contemporary author that during the year 69 CE, between the months of January to April, in Etruria that the cow did, in fact, not speak. None that I know of. Does this mean that, by default, I should accept Tacitus’ claim about the speaking cow? Of course not! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If cows cannot speak today, it is perfectly reasonable to infer that they could not speak in Tacitus’ time. Applying the same principle of uniformitarianism, I can infer that, since people cannot walk on water today, people could likewise probably not do so in Jesus’ time. My “bias” in disregarding Jesus’ miracle is no different than my “bias” in disregarding Tacitus’ speaking cow.

You may say that this is unfair, since I am assigning a priori probabilities that make Jesus’ miracles appear extraordinarily improbable. How then could you then possibly convince me of the miracles? Simple: provide a contemporary example (or some tangible evidence) demonstrating that X actually does have a higher prior probability and is not next to impossible. Once more, I will provide a non-biblical example. Herodotus (3.151-3) records that during a Persian siege of Babylon, a mule gave birth to another mule. When I first read this, I thought that mules are completely sterile, so naturally I doubted Herodotus’ claim. However, I later found this scientific publication, which discovered that a female mule can, in fact, sometimes give birth:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4056372?dopt=Abstract

By the standard of uniformitarianism, I must now concede that Herodotus’ claim was at least plausible (I’m still not sure if Herodotus had a reliable source for this detail). Therefore, in accordance with the same standard of evidence, if someone were able to walk on water today and scientists were able to observe that he or she was genuinely creating enough friction on the surface of the water to support his or her own weight, then I would concede that it was plausible that Jesus could likewise have done so 2,000 years ago. I make this challenge to Christian’s often: If Jesus can do anything (Matthew 19:26), then bring him here today and have him demonstrate under scientific observation that he is, in fact, performing miracles. Then I would believe them. But ancient, anonymous, and dubious laudatory biographies are simply not enough.

Many Christians think that this is a bizarre or unfair request, but I think that it is perfectly reasonable. After all, god is supposed to be able to do anything, so why is he always hiding from us, especially if he wants us to know him? The impotence of apologists to provide modern proof of miracles or their deity is the very reason that they have to rely on the authority of ancient scriptures in the first place. So their god ultimately becomes a god of history, or a god of the gaps of science, completely invisible in the world we see today.

http://celsus.blog.com/2012/10/19/methodological-approaches-to-ancient-history/

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1   PeopleUnited   2013 Apr 29, 10:19am  

You are a miracle.

2   Heraclitusstudent   2013 Apr 29, 11:34am  

Jesus never said he was God. He called himself "son of man".
And those who knew him thought he was the messiah.
Much later someone decided that "son of man" must have meant "son of God".

The same is probably true for his "miracles". He swam to a boat during a storm and someone wrote he "walked on water".

Your argument may be logical, but the real question is: what does it take away from Jesus's teaching?

We can learn from Herodotus without thinking he's a God, and without believing every single thing he wrote. Why not extend the same courtesy to Jesus?

3   MisdemeanorRebel   2013 Apr 30, 1:49am  

Heraclitusstudent says

Your argument may be logical, but the real question is: what does it take away from Jesus's teaching?

You mean come to set father against son, abandon your family and follow me, and that there is no way but through me?

Heraclitusstudent says

We can learn from Herodotus without thinking he's a God, and without believing every single thing he wrote. Why not extend the same courtesy to Jesus?

Because we have no idea what Jesus said, or if he even existed. Isn't it odd that the Beatitudes, a cornerstone of Christianity, aren't mentioned at all in Paul's Letters or in half the gospels, and that the overturning of the tables in the temple is in all the Gospels, but not in Paul's letters. Not even in passing, you think Paul would write "Hey, Corinthians, be meek, because they will inherit the Earth, just like Jesus said." - but he doesn't.

Since Paul's writings are believed to predate the Gospels, it's odd that Paul omits just about every detail about Jesus' life found in all Gospels especially considering he claims to have met Jesus' living follows in person, something the Gospel writers don't claim.

Tacitus and Herodotus signed their work; the Gospels are anonymous. We only say "Gospel of Mark" because of Tradition, we really don't know even the first name of the person who put it down. Also, the Gospels are Hagiographies and Religious works; Herodotus is writing generic history without a religious axe to grind. So they are not equivalent in reliability.

There are also many problems with the "Chain of Custody" in the Gospels. Prior to the 200s, all we really have for the gospels is tiny fragments of sentences - and we have many Gospels that "Didn't make it" into Official Canon.

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