patrick.net

Good for him they were still underrated despite their success.

A man after my own heart(burn).

When I read about today's multi-billionaires, I wonder seriously, why don't they think more like Rin? Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results. Consider two multi-billionaires at a cocktail party:

A) "The market is up this week, so I have $7 billion."
B) "The market is up this week, so I have $5 billion in addition to my Nobel Prize in medicine, for curing cancer."

Maybe I need to understand better the Type A personality, because it seems to me that B wins that round.

Just a reminder, The Offspring was a highly successful band during the 90s.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/PnHdpTpmAsY

curious2 says

When I read about today's multi-billionaires, I wonder seriously, why don't they think more like Rin? Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results. Consider two multi-billionaires at a cocktail party:

Howard Hughes done well in one industry and nothing more than expand in others.. From precision instruments to Film/Movies, Hotels, Aerospace, Transportation and of course Medical Research....

Not bad for a job creator...

thomaswong.1986 says

Howard Hughes done well in one industry and nothing more than expand in others

I think Tony Starks of Iron Man, was based upon Howard Hughes, an over the top billionaire with a lot of curiosity and inventiveness.

curious2 says

Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results.

I think in the beginning, Larry Ellison of Oracle wanted to be this type of guy but quickly, he became another showboat, spending all of his resources on winning the America's Cup. Ultimately, ppl like him don't like hiring someone, smarter than them. Their fragile egos can't handle it.

Rin says

Larry Ellison....

is a perfect example, and although your hypothesis sounds unkind, there must be some explanation and I don't know how to explain it. How can a guy with $50 billion be unable to think of anything better to do with it than finance a yacht race? I went to see one of the America's Cup races, and yes the event was briefly fun, but so what? Plenty of things are fun and cost little or nothing, so if he had $10 of fun he wasted the rest. Maybe he can say they developed a way to sail faster, but again so what, the boats were too dangerous for practical application and besides sailing faster is like Steven Wright's microwave fireplace, where he could stretch out by the fire for the evening in eight minutes. I wonder why the people who know Larry Ellison personally, don't give him an intervention along the lines of President Eisenhower's farewell address; every year that he sits on his $50 billion pile signifies, in the final sense, a theft from his own biography: his yachting boondoggle is not spending time and money alone; he is wasting the Nobel Prizes he could have won, the profound change he could have wrought, and the cures that might save the lives of his grandchildren.

curious2 says

I wonder why the people who know Larry Ellison personally, don't give him an intervention along the lines of President Eisenhower's farewell address; every year that he sits on his $50 billion pile signifies, in the final sense, a theft from his own biography: his yachting boondoggle is not spending time and money alone; he is wasting the Nobel Prizes he could have won, the profound change he could have wrought, and the cures that might save the lives of his grandchildren.

Yeah, but in business, Ellison was known for one thing ... being the Bill Gates of databases, crushing competitors like Sybase, Informix, and MySQL. And in apps, beating up on SAP, by merging with PeopleSoft & Siebel. With his real contribution, being little more than another hard nosed IT monopolist, there isn't anything else.

In many areas of life, unlike a polyglot like Leonardo DaVinci or Goethe, Ellison likes to dabble in areas like biotech or AI, just so he can say that he did *something* interesting, but in reality, he can't commit to an area of knowledge because business types, on the whole, are a mediocre bunch.

I don't believe that Ellison will want to meet with anyone, and I include myself in that category, as an intellectual equal or superior. If he were to hire me, he'd always impress the fact that he's worth $50B more than me, as if that's reason for me to fall on my knees and worship him. In reality, when I do retire from this hedge fund work, I will never worship an idiot with money. Sure, if he's rich and passionate about advancing the sciences I'll give that person the time of day, but not a jackass like Larry.

curious2 says

When I read about today's multi-billionaires, I wonder seriously, why don't they think more like Rin? Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results. Consider two multi-billionaires at a cocktail party:

A) "The market is up this week, so I have $7 billion."

B) "The market is up this week, so I have $5 billion in addition to my Nobel Prize in medicine, for curing cancer."

Maybe I need to understand better the Type A personality, because it seems to me that B wins that round.

Perhaps I can clarify things.

A) "The market is up this week, so I have $7 billion."

A) Wow, that Nobel prize gets you a whole 1 million dollars, wow.

Meanwhile I have 2 billion dollars more than you.

I can buy an extra country's worth of pleasure slaves while your Nobel money isn't even a downpayment on an umpteenth home anywhere worth living.

Sucks to be you!

B) Bbbbut "I" cured cancer!

A) Well "I" used one million of my two extra billion dollars to buy a company that invented a slightly different way for people to share funny pictures of their pets. That company was bought for 300 billion dollars.

B) Wow I am such a loser. Why did I ever bother hiring all those postdocs to do that work for me?

New Renter, you're getting it all wrong.

The Darwins, Maxwells, and so forth ... don't mingle with the stupid types from the Hamptons.

Instead, the smart, independently wealthy types, form their own subculture where they look down upon Ivanka Trump, Gloria Vanderbilt, and others of Yankee money.

Thus, one's grand uncle, John D Rockefeller III (or whatever initials he's got) tells his friends, that his nephew is an intellectual genius while their offsprings are a bunch of Kardashian idiots. This then, hurts the family pride of the loser descendents.

And then, the loser descendents are reminded of their mediocrity and are continually threatened to be disinherited, if they don't at least, pass college.

Rin says

New Renter, you're getting it all wrong.

The Darwins, Maxwells, and so forth ... don't mingle with the stupid types from the Hamptons.

Instead, the smart, independently wealthy types, form their own subculture where they look down upon Ivanka Trump, Gloria Vanderbilt, and others of Yankee money.

Thus, one's grand uncle, John D Rockefeller III (or whatever initials he's got) tells his friends, that his nephew is an intellectual genius while their offsprings are a bunch of Kardashian idiots. This then, hurts the family pride of the loser descendents.

And then, the loser descendents are reminded of their mediocrity and are continually threatened to be disinherited, if they don't at least, pass college.

I assumed Curious2 was referring to the "stupid types from the Hamptons" class of billionares.

New Renter says

I assumed Curious2 was referring to the "stupid types from the Hamptons" class of billionares.

Well, in some ways, they're all stupid but the idea is that each Patriarchy, loves to brag about how its particular descendents are greater than others.

In the New England region, this is why a lot of *Yankee types like to brag about their connection to Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Oliver Wendall Holmes Sr/Jr, the Kennedys, etc. It makes 'em feel like their family's money had brought 'em prestige in culture and civilization.

*Yankee types in this case refers to olde New England money, not the fact that everyone who resides in the New York/New England regions are Yankees, by default.

curious2 says

How can a guy with $50 billion be unable to think of anything better to do with it than finance a yacht race?

http://www.siliconbeat.com/2014/02/14/larry-ellisons-plans-for-lanai/

I am insanely envious of Ellison's ownership of that island. What a life opportunity to leave a real lasting legacy.

I should try acquiring Kahoʻolawe.

Bellingham Bill says

I am insanely envious....

That explains a lot.

Islands are overrated. A realtor acquaintance told me he loved selling islands, because he'd always get repeat business. People imagine they want one, so he gets a commission when they buy, then they realize it's more trouble than it's worth, so they want to sell, so he gets an exclusive listing.

You ignore 70 users on PatNet, so you might last longer than most on an island all by yourself, but not as long as you probably imagine.

New Renter says

I assumed Curious2 was referring to the "stupid....

I didn't call anybody stupid, I just don't understand the priorities of people who possess potentially life-changing wealth and yet can't figure out what to do with it beyond buying a bigger yacht. Paul Allen has a mega-yacht and an equally overbuilt football team, I like RealPlayer but seriously, when he catches a cold, doesn't it occur to him that he might benefit from a vaccine to prevent that? I mean, everyone catches colds, and everyone hates it, how do multi-billionaires blind themselves to the possibility of curing them?

curious2 says

Islands are overrated.

Bingo, if you're not a horticulturist or some sort of Dr No of James Bond notoriety, owning an island is nothing more than flushing cash down a sink.

curious2 says

when he catches a cold, doesn't it occur to him that he might benefit from a vaccine to prevent that? I mean, everyone catches colds, and everyone hates it, how do multi-billionaires blind themselves to the possibility of curing them?

Curious, the active ingredient in Garlic, Allicin, can treat many infections, including the common cold.

http://www.academia.edu/3385679/Antimicrobial_properties_of_allicin_from_garlic

Yet, despite Bill Gate's massive foundation, he's still believing that the only thing he can do is make big pharma products, cheaper for the third world.

Thus, a billionaire has missed the notion that making the active ingredient in Garlic, available to the public (max cost ~$1/day without a larger processing facility), could be an evolutionary idea in heath care without resorting to continuous anti-biotic derivatives.

curious2 says

New Renter says

I assumed Curious2 was referring to the "stupid....

I didn't call anybody stupid, I just don't understand the priorities of people who possess potentially life-changing wealth and yet can't figure out what to do with it beyond buying a bigger yacht. Paul Allen has a mega-yacht and an equally overbuilt football team, I like RealPlayer but seriously, when he catches a cold, doesn't it occur to him that he might benefit from a vaccine to prevent that? I mean, everyone catches colds, and everyone hates it, how do multi-billionaires blind themselves to the possibility of curing them?

No you did not, Rin did.

Anyway such people can afford the absolute cutting edge in healthcare. Blue blooded doctors with a HYP pedigree and the very latest drugs and equipment to make sure that annoying cold does not progress to something more. Why bother finding a cure for something that only really hurts the little people?

No better to invest that money in lobbyists to "guide" lawmakers towards your interests.

Actually, a lot of rich people get some of the worst care i.e. that doesn't mean the cheapest, because they often employ the doctors who will tell them what they want to hear and give them what they want.

You think Steve Jobs got the best care? He ignored medical advise to pursue his own superstitions, otherwise, may have lived longer or may have had remissions.

Also, just because they are rich, doesn't mean they don't catch colds, viruses and flu just like everybody else. Money doesn't really buy health, and that is precisely why it is so valuable.

Ceffer says

You think Steve Jobs got the best care? He ignored medical advise to pursue his own superstitions, otherwise, may have lived longer or may have had remissions.

Not getting the best care and ignoring the best care are two different things.

Ceffer says

Also, just because they are rich, doesn't mean they don't catch colds, viruses and flu just like everybody else. Money doesn't really buy health, and that is precisely why it is so valuable.

Yes it does.

People with money do not have to put themselves in harms way to put food on the table.

People with money can afford food and drink that is unlikely to itself cause illness as well as shelter away from environmental nasties.

People with money can afford treatment to prevent life ending complications from minor illnesses.

People with money can afford preventative care.

Some of this does not take a lot of money but it does take some and to those who don't have any money that amount makes those who do rich.

New Renter says

Not getting the best care and ignoring the best care are two different things.

True, but there is a lot of overlap. We have a medical system that maximizes revenues by victimizing patients. The bigger the markup, the harder the sale. Many people long to feel valued, and salesmen exploit that. In medicine, the most expensive treatment is rarely the best, and there are too many examples where people made themselves worse off because they could afford to. In Steve Jobs' case, he stayed in the American system, which is the most expensive, somehow getting "residence" in Tennessee so he could get a shorter waiting list for a liver transplant from a cadaver. He could have gone to India and got a liver transplant from a live donor at a fraction of the price, no waiting, same success rate, and he could have gone back to do the same thing again. The liver is a remarkable organ, you can cut half of it out of a live donor, and it will regrow in both the donor and the recipient, so they'll both have whole livers within around a month. A healthy liver can keep pancreatic cancer under control for years; it's when the liver fails that the patient dies. People say Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer, but in fact he died from a combination of (a) magical thinking, (b) salesmen selling him the most expensive treatment, (c) the cancer spreading unnecessarily from his pancreas to his liver and then beyond. At least Steve had the option to go to another country; most Americans remain trapped in the now mandatory American CAFO system, surrounded by border enforcement stepped up by Obamneycare.

Also, don't forget, one can get adult stem cell work done, the cells being extracted from one's own fatty tissues and then, re-activated from the dormant state, in Thailand or Japan.

By increasing the availability of these cells in one's aging body, keys organ systems and vascular tissues, get renewed and can function in top form, a lot better than prior to the treatment.

The happiest profession is being independently wealthy

Then explain your presence here...

Rin says

I don't believe that Ellison will want to meet with anyone, and I include myself in that category, as an intellectual equal or superior.

Rin says

The Darwins, Maxwells, and so forth ... don't mingle with the stupid types from the Hamptons

Very simple, I'm here because my entire work day is about being on the phone with clients & attending meetings. My eye is always on the IM, waiting for someone to ask me a stupid question.

As a former STEM person, that type of stuff drives one nuts, esp once you do 50 hours per week or more of it. I could deal with it, being 20% of the job but 100% is a lot of BS, even for a semi-patient person.

And thus, this forum with its off the 'cuff remarks about housing, tech, politics, etc, is the perfect release value from a day of abject mindlessness.

zzyzzx says

The happiest profession is being independently wealthy

Hold on... earlier weren't there all these posterers, saying that money doesn't bring happiness, as if somehow, the world was going to pay one, to perform one's hobbies?

Thus, it's Captain Obvious to the rescue.

Rin says

Very simple, I'm here because my entire work day is about being on the phone with clients & attending meetings. My eye is always on the IM, waiting for someone to ask me a stupid question.

As a former STEM person, that type of stuff drives one nuts, esp once you do 50 hours per week or more of it. I could deal with it, being 20% of the job but 100% is a lot of BS, even for a semi-patient person.

And thus, this forum with its off the cuff remarks about housing, tech, politics, etc, is the perfect release value from a day of abject mindlessness.

I love this guy.

curious2 says

When I read about today's multi-billionaires, I wonder seriously, why don't they think more like Rin? Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results. Consider two multi-billionaires at a cocktail party:

A) "The market is up this week, so I have $7 billion."

B) "The market is up this week, so I have $5 billion in addition to my Nobel Prize in medicine, for curing cancer."

Maybe I need to understand better the Type A personality, because it seems to me that B wins that round.

The lifestyles of someone worth $5billion as opposed to $7billion cannot be that different. You can't spend that money, only invest it for someone else to spend it down the road.
I'd say "B" wins.

Love the title to the thread.
You can't get it more right.

This is why George Soros is way cooler than Warren Buffet. What is better than using the market as a platform of intellectual discoveries?

Rin says

curious2 says

Even if they don't personally have the scientific background to do medical research themselves, they could hire a team of postdocs and claim credit for the results.

I think in the beginning, Larry Ellison of Oracle wanted to be this type of guy but quickly, he became another showboat, spending all of his resources on winning the America's Cup. Ultimately, ppl like him don't like hiring someone, smarter than them. Their fragile egos can't handle it.

The best thing about bring INDEPENDENTLY wealthy is that one is not dependent on your opinions.

How is a man's passion in yachting any less than another man's desire to do medical research?

There is no right way. The very essense of success is the triumph of the will.

Peter P says

How is a man's passion in yachting any less than another man's desire to do medical research?

There is no right way. The very essense of success is the triumph of the will

Yes, I concur with this. Ellison was always a sporting type of person. One of his famous exploits was bodysurfing in Hawaii, during a hurricane. He'd busted a lung but survived to tell about it.

Still, between his adventures/misadventures, he'd attempted to portray himself as a polyglot, by hanging out in a gene transfer lab and a few other dog/pony shows in expert systems, etc. Like a lot of IT chiefs, he probably realized one thing... sure, he's physically tough et al, however, he's probably not all that bright.

I'd worked for someone, exactly like that and he could never deal with anyone working under him, who had any real intelligence. This particular VP made sure that any product architect, programmer, or consultant was made to feel inferior in his presence. Those who fought back and exerted themselves, were quietly put on *special projects*. All and all, I think that that's the real Ellison, a one dimensional alpha male, who doesn't like to see himself as 2nd or 3rd best at anything.

And since he's been Oracle's chief, all these decades, he's never had to deal with descent for quite some time.

I think Ellison wants to exceed himself. There is nothing wrong about trying to dominate. I doubt Genghis Khan would settle for 2nd best.

Peter P says

I think Ellison wants to exceed himself.

But that's the thing, I think real STEM work is actually hard.

IMO, Larry's had it easy for so long, being the Oracle chief, that entering a new area, like a genomics lab, is probably like starting over, with a lot of new terminologies, unread textbooks, etc.

And unlike ppl like New Renter here, I'm guessing that Larry doesn't buckle down and crack the textbooks open, for hours on end, to find out what he needs to actually learn. Instead, he'd rather do 200 pushups and run around the block. You see, a lot of execs do that stuff already, to get themselves pumped up for their next series of meetings. Former Navy Seals have actually sold BUDS training pow-wow *experiences* to managers in corporate America.

My theory is that executive types are actually quite ordinary, in terms of delving into technical subjects, but have a great ability to distill the information for a larger audience. Thus, their physical stamina translates into tasks like boating, climbing Mt Rainer, big presentations, etc, but doesn't lend itself towards introspection and intense learning.

So if Larry wants to 'exceed' himself, he needs to first accept his shortcomings but then, build himself a program to overcome them. If his concentration on real science sucks ... then he needs to cut the exercise routines from 2 hours straight to perhaps, 15 min interval tracks and then, study an incomprehensible subject like Stochastic Processes, and then go back to the exercise, with the idea of building his stamina at learning subjects out of his comfort zone of regular fitness.

Rin says

My theory is....

I like that theory better than your earlier one about intellectual insecurity, and there is more evidence to support it. If you look at President GW Bush, he loved to work out, and was in the top 1% physically for his age. He had no intellectual insecurities, in fact he got better grades at Yale than his classmate John Kerry, but Bush affected folksiness while Kerry affected intellectualism.

Peter P says

There is nothing wrong about trying to dominate. I doubt Genghis Khan would settle for 2nd best.

This is another theory with evidence to support it. Khan was notoriously sadistic, and wrote that the sweetest part of victory was the suffering of the vanquished; he survived and reproduced more successfully than the people he killed, so Darwinian evolution favored him. If you cure the common cold, everyone benefits, but that's the problem: if everybody has it, then you don't have any particular advantage. Orwell wrote about that in 1984, the idea that the privileges of wealth must be scarce in order to be coveted and keep others "insanely envious" and on the treadmill. The mega-yacht might cost more than proving a cure for the common cold, but it adds value in the envy that it inspires in others, and having a whole crew calling you Sir.

BTW, I added source links to my earlier comment about liver transplants, with no change to the text. People are so deeply conditioned to believe that the most expensive must be the best, that they become unable to comprehend that a cheaper solution might save their lives and spending more might kill them. Institutions evolve in a Darwinian virtual ecosystem that rewards complexity and predation; if they can make more money off something that kills you, they win out over "lesser" modalities that might save you both physically and financially. Sometimes I feel like one of the few dissenters in the last days of Jonestown, trying to resist drinking the Kool-Aid, but my words here are only anonymous comments, so I must remember to add source links.

curious2 says

Steve Jobs' case, he stayed in the American system, which is the most expensive, somehow getting "residence" in Tennessee so he could get a shorter waiting list for a liver transplant from a cadaver. He could have gone to India and got a liver transplant from a live donor at a fraction of the price, no waiting, same success rate, and he could have gone back to do the same thing again

And again that was his choice. He was rich enough that he could have had had hired a pack of healthy children as perpetual liver doners.

New Renter says

And again that was his choice.

Yes, that's the point. He chose the most expensive thing, sold by the most aggressive salesmen, and it cost him his life in addition to the money he paid. With Obamneycare, America has made a parallel choice, paying more for the "conventional wisdom" instead of genuine evidence based decision-making. Evidence-based decision making is hard, but succumbing to the credentialed salesmen is easier, it requires only substituting an easier question: not "what is the right answer" but rather "which salesman has the most impressive credentials?" Sometimes I wonder why Obamneycare bothers me so much, and I think it is the mandatory dependence on misinformed conformity; I care about evidence-based decision making, it means a lot to me, and I don't like seeing the phrase misused and subverted into yet another misguided crusade, as when McNamara and the other self-styled "best and the brightest" conscripted everyone into destroying Viet Nam in order to "save" it. (BTW, McNamara was also very bright, and rich, and his career at Defense illustrated yet again that smart and rich people can make terribly lethal mistakes.)