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The product of the Democrats every time

By indigenous follow indigenous   2014 May 15, 2:14am 7,948 views   60 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377987/politics-prairie-george-will

Democracy can be cruel because elections deprive the demos of the delight of alibis and the comfort of complaining. Illinois voters have used many elections to make theirs the worst governed state, with about $100 billion in unfunded public pension promises, and $6.7 billion in unpaid bills. The state is a stark illustration of prolonged one-party rule conducted by politicians subservient to government-employee unions. A new Gallup poll shows that Illinois has the highest percentage 50 percent of residents who want to leave their state. If Illinois voters reelect Governor Pat Quinn, 65, they will reject Bruce Rauner, 58, who...

#politics

1   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 2:31am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

4 out of the last 9 governors have gone to prison, that last for trying to sell the senate seat left vacant by Obama.

8.4 percent unemployment rate is exceeded only by Rhode Island’s, another Democratic-dominated state, and Nevada’s.

Democrats having raised the corporate tax rate from 7.3 percent to 9.5 percent and imposed a “temporary” income tax rate increase from 3 percent to 5 percent.

Illinois voters have used many elections to make theirs the worst governed state, with about $100 billion in unfunded public pension promises, and $6.7 billion in unpaid bills. The state is a stark illustration of prolonged one-party rule conducted by politicians subservient to government-employee unions.

A new Gallup poll shows that Illinois has the highest percentage — 50 percent — of residents who want to leave their state.

2   anonymous   ignore (null)   2014 May 15, 3:36am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

What is it about a state being blue, that leads to greater wealth production

3   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 3:42am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

The article has nothing to do with the Democratic party or their positions to start with. But if we're going to play this game then sure- let's compare Illinois to virtually 90% of the right-leaning states who repeatedly come in dead-last on pretty much every measure and also in turn cost the country the most, ironically taking money from the largely left-leaning states that produce the overwhelming lion's share of the country's industrial wealth.

Nice try. But ultimately a fail.

4   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 3:57am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

Nice try.

Oh Gee, I'm so happy that you saw fit to give me a "nice try".

Go fuck yourself dumb ass, the only states that can afford to become blue states are productive/profitable red states.

5   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 4:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Rauner’s support for more charter schools and school-choice voucher programs is one reason he has been endorsed by the Reverend James Meeks, pastor for 15,000 members of the South Side’s Salem Baptist Church, Illinois’s largest black church. And one reason the teachers’ unions oppose him with ferocious disparagement of his wealth."

Interesting..

6   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 5:22am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

Already did?

7   corntrollio   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 5:28am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

All of the Blue dog democrats are more conservative than the current republicans.
Same with Kennedy

Well, some of them are still around, you know... And many of them voted for the Affordable Care Act, which as we all know was proposed by a Republican Congress in the 90s in response to the Heritage Foundation's proposal. The Heritage Foundation was for it before they were against it, of course.

As for JFK, get real.

8   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 5:32am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

The blue dogs and Kennedy, Eisenhower with regards to spending.

9   corntrollio   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 5:33am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

The blue dogs and Kennedy, Eisenhower with regards to spending.

I'm not even clear that you know in what era the Blue Dogs operated.

10   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 5:33am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

corntrollio says

Heritage Foundation's proposal

Heritage or no it was blather.

11   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 5:46am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

Oh Gee, I'm so happy that you saw fit to give me a "nice try".

Actually I was giving you a compliment because I wouldn't have even called your attempt at trying in some lame way to prove some sort of pointless point a "try" anyway. If anything it was simply more literary diarrhea.

And yes- the blue states do in fact happen to produce most of the wealth in this country. Sorry- I grew up in the south and know what I'm talking about.

I'll pretend I didn't read the embarrassing remainder of your response...

12   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 5:58am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

And yes- the blue states do in fact happen to produce most of the wealth in this country. Sorry- I grew up in the south and know what I'm talking about.

They did not start out that way. The democrats want the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine, ain't going to happen.

The final result of democrats is a failed state, USSR, Argentina.

13   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 6:04am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

They did not start out that way. The democrats want the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine, ain't going to happen.

The final result of democrats is a failed state, USSR, Argentina.

Ohhhhh yes they did... Read your history books. Not only did a bulk of the blue states get settled first, but they were also industrialized first while most of the South relied heavily on agriculture.

Oh- and if you're going to jump right into McCarthyism ala- 1950's style crap then you would need to have a point. You would need blue states to fail en-mass but sadly for your argument the majority of blue states do very well- California and New York being examples.

If you're going to have an argument, at least inject some intelligence into it first.

14   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 6:40am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

If you're going to have an argument, at least inject some intelligence into it first.

back at ya.

there was no regulation before there was an economy to regulate.

15   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 6:47am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

back at ya.

there was no regulation before there was an economy to regulate.

And what is your point? Its not "Back at ya'" because you were the one making an incorrect claim, propping up some article about Illinois and then using it to brand an entire party.

16   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2014 May 15, 6:56am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

You are sequestered to a posteriori or empirical thinking which is why you don't get this stuff. I tried to learn you this stuff but you are just too arrogant to learn.

A Priori.

Bwahahaha. Keep drinkin' the Austrian Voodoo Economics Kool-aide, using a focus on a priori knowledge to ignore the pesky empirical knowledge. May the Blackboard trump real life experience!

Math's hard, so it must be bad.

I know I criticize Economics on this board, but it's for the Oversimplification of Human Nature, Physics Envy, and snotty attitude towards OTHER social sciences, not for it's mere use of math.

17   NoCoupForYou   ignore (5)   2014 May 15, 6:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Reality says

The United States was a world economic superpower before the year 1900 (i.e. before Teddy Roosevelt was president, never mind FDR decades later).

The UK was the World's Superpower, followed by France and Germany. USA was #4 in Industrial Output.

18   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 7:14am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

ignore the pesky empirical knowledge.

not ignoring, just as with math you cannot arrive at an answer with empirical observations alone.

19   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 7:17am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

And what is your point? Its not "Back at ya'" because you were the one making an incorrect claim, propping up some article about Illinois and then using it to brand an entire party.

Illinois is infested with democrats and are the epitome of what democrats accomplish.

20   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 7:58am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

Illinois is infested with democrats and are the epitome of what democrats accomplish.

That's dumb. You are using one example from one state to try and prove some lame point. Ok... fine. Let's use your logic. So... California, if it were a country and not a state would be either the world's 6th or 7th largest economy. So when you take that into consideration its basically a state that produces more wealth than all of the red states plus probably at ;east 3/4 of the blue states combined. Its a mostly Democratic state. Hence since I played along with your logic I just disproved your point:

"California is infested with democrats and are the epitome of what democrats accomplish"

So in other words... guess I'll have to change my mind then. Since I assume you would agree with your own logic, then you must be trying to say that democrats have this tendency to be heavily present in the most economically successful states in the country as a result of the party's positions. I am sorry I mistook you earlier for some conservative and agree with you that democrats are basically the party that gets shit done. Thanks for making the obvious more clear for those who don't know.

21   anonymous   ignore (null)   2014 May 15, 8:38am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Why on Earth do people confuse democrats, with liberals? What exactly is it that you find liberal, about todays democrat party?

22   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 8:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

That's dumb. You are using one example from one state to try and prove some lame point. Ok... fine. Let's use your logic. So... California, if it were a country and not a state would be either the world's 6th or 7th largest economy. So when you take that into consideration its basically a state that produces more wealth than all of the red states plus probably at ;east 3/4 of the blue states combined. Its a mostly Democratic state. Hence since I played along with your logic I just disproved your point:

You are correlating the prosperity to it being a blue state?

23   corntrollio   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 9:05am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

errc says

Why on Earth do people confuse democrats, with liberals? What exactly is it that you find liberal, about todays democrat party?

Agree, that's what I noted above. People who call Democrats "liberals" are using the idiotic Nixon definition. Because of this Nixonian terminology, the typical person from the US would call Australia's Liberal party the "conservative" party (http://www.politicalcompass.org/aus2013).

In reality, left and right aren't even enough to describe political spectrum, and you need four quadrants. In reality, the Republican and Democratic aren't actually that far apart on such a scale -- they're both within a narrow band in the same quadrant. Two of the other quadrants don't even exist in mainstream US politics unless your last name is Nader, Kucinich, or Gravel, and the third is non-existent:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

Our four-quadrant spectrum isn't nearly as diverse as the UK, just as one example, because their parties populate all 4 quadrants:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010

24   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 May 15, 9:29am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

corntrollio says

you need four quadrants

Only two dimensions? Hell, each of the following is at least one independent axis:
1. Economics
2. Social freedoms
3. Equality under law
4. Transparency
5. Militarism
6. Foreign trade
7. Degree of social safety nets
8. Religion vs. separation of church and state
9. State power vs individual power
10. Provincial power vs federal power

That's 10 degrees and 1024 "quadrants" just off the top of my head. There are many orthogonal directions to the left-right line.

25   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 9:49am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

One thing we know is that if stalin were in charge of illinois, gang problem would be solved in fairly short order instead of being paraded on CNN in guise of "chicagoland."

26   corntrollio   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 10:15am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Dan8267 says

Only two dimensions? Hell, each of the following is at least one independent axis

It depends on how granular you want to get and to what extent you subsume those points into left vs. right or authoritarian vs. libertarian. My main point were:
1) left vs. right or "liberal" vs. "conservative" doesn't really cut it, and that it's really more complex than that;
2) people who use "liberal" and "conservative" per the Nixon definition as part of their argument are usually fairly clueless

27   indigenous   ignore (0)   2014 May 15, 10:34am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

corntrollio says

usually fairly clueless

People who are fairly clueless usually say how complex it is, it really is not.

28   corntrollio   ignore (1)   2014 May 15, 10:35am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

People who are fairly clueless usually say how complex it is, it really is not.

I did not say the definitions of liberal and conservative are complex or that the four quadrants are complex. In fact, they are very simple. It's just that simple people don't understand them and are generally too ignorant to know they're ignorant.

29   BlueSardine   ignore (3)   2014 May 15, 11:10am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

this is damning evidence.

indigenous says

A new Gallup poll shows that Illinois has the highest percentage — 50 percent — of residents who want to leave their state.

30   clambo   ignore (5)   2014 May 18, 1:05pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

New Hampshire is doing great and has never been very Democrat as I recall.

No income tax, no slums, high rate of education achievement, etc.

Texas is economically doing great and there are few slums there also. I think they're not democrat either.

Wilson a Democrat got us into WWI among other mistakes.
Kennedy a Democrat got us into Vietnam and almost a war with Soviets.
Johnson a Democrat got us deeper into Vietnam, but also started a hugely expensive "war on poverty". We lost.
I don't mention Korea nor WWII since they were maybe unavoidable.

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are expensive but approved by Congress.

Wars cost a lot of money. Huge defense dept. cost money. Huge welfare states cost money. Huge govt. agencies with thousands of gold bricks awaiting retirement cost money.

If we send a bunch of guys to save the Christian girls from the insane muslim boko harums, we should require payment in oil from Nigeria for this work.

We should impose a fee on goods from Korea, a tariff, to offset the money we spend defending South Korea from the maniac North Koreans.

We should charge Japan for defending them against possible agression from China. Japan can manage.

We should ignore entirely Syria, we should have not bombed Libya, we should cut all payments to everyone who gets any benefit from Uncle Sam 5%.
Exceptions should be made for: 1. blind 2. crippled 3. mentally incapable

Pensions to govt. employees should of course be cut 10% immediately. If they find another job following federal govt. retirement, cut 20%.

I think this about covers it. Live free or die.

31   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2014 May 18, 9:39pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

I suspect the same occurs in Illinois gov't, 4 out of the past 9 governors are in prison, it is it's own charecture

For the record, Illinois governors have been pretty well mixed.

In fact, from 1977 to 2003, IL had exclusively Republican governors. So, perhaps you'd best find a new narrative for your thread.

32   bob2356   ignore (4)   2014 May 19, 1:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says

Texas is economically doing great and there are few slums there also. I think they're not democrat either.

I loved the years I lived in Texas, but it certainly has plenty of problems and plenty of poverty. You have never been to texas obviously. I can show you neighborhoods that don't even have running water. There are plenty of slums in Texas.

FWIW, the association of manufactures ranked Texas 35th in the cost of doing business and 41st in quality of life. 24/7 wall street ranked Texas 36th in economic performance.

Texas had one of the worst economies in the nation 20 years ago and it wasn't democrat then either. How does that work, can you explain? The Republican's only get credit when things go well?

33   edvard2   ignore (1)   2014 May 19, 4:38am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

You are correlating the prosperity to it being a blue state?

Nope. I'm simply stating some basic statistics: Most of the wealth in the US is generated in blue states. They happen to be blue. They happen to make most of the money in the US...

bob2356 says

Texas is economically doing great and there are few slums there also. I think they're not democrat either.

Then again you have to look at this from an overall perspective: the average income in TX places it 32nd in the US. On the other hand California is ranked No.5. Sure- the cost of living in TX is less, but when you throw in their extremely high property taxes, the need to spend 100's a month on AC for a god chunk of the year its not that dramatically different, no.

34   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2014 May 19, 11:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

edvard2 says

the need to spend 100's a month on AC for a god chunk of the year

Doesn't almost everything cost more in the stores in CA? Aren't you going to spend more on everything except some groceries if you live in CA. That's got to cost 100's a month just for that. Especially things like gasoline.


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