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Core beliefs of economic right wingers


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2014 May 31, 8:48am   19,863 views  105 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.organizedwealth.us/history/ricca.html

The Right believes that anyone who does not succeed or prosper in the system lacks the necessary self-discipline, or was born with the wrong genes. There are no flaws in the system or in institutions; the flaws are in the individual. Because the term "survival of the fittest" sounds too cruel, the Right has popularized the concept of "personal responsibility". That means individuals are on their own to deal with such needs as retirement security, health care, and coping with millions of jobs lost due to unfair international trade agreements and corporate mergers. Those who do achieve wealth and power...

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1   Vicente   2014 May 31, 9:31am  

Too long-winded.

"I got mine, FUCK YOU!"

2   HydroCabron   2014 May 31, 9:53am  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

The Koch Bros shot their [way] our of the ghetto, why the fuck won"t you?

Precisely.

Grab the grenade from the crib, stuff it down the pants of the cop who tossed it, and do abstract expressionism with the porch as your canvas, the pigs as paint, and your M134 as the brush.

My 5-year-old kid couldn't paint like that!

3   indigenous   2014 May 31, 1:46pm  

Wow she studied this for 30 years and still does not understand conservative values.

She is either retarded or she uses the straw man for her own gain at the expense of those who listen to her.

Look boys and girls government means that someone rules, period. There is no representative government, it is just "elected" (most advertised) politician getting his, under the guise of government. This is done through force.

What would the world be without government at all? Would it be like Somalia or would it be like North Korea? Political bookends but actually the Somalian is getting the better standard of living. Citation available.

You are economically enslaved in this country at least 50% of your life, do you really get your money's worth?

4   Strategist   2014 Jun 1, 1:00pm  

jazz music says

tovarichpeter says

Because the term "survival of the fittest" sounds too cruel,

"Survival of the fittest" is a core belief of Satanism.

That's the law of evolution.

5   Oilwelldoctor   2014 Jun 1, 1:07pm  

Hey, I can't get laid. Can I screw your wife?

6   indigenous   2014 Jun 1, 1:36pm  

jazz music says

Ahh the "false choice" argument. REPRESENTATIVE government versus NO government.

Why the fuck not? You pretend that the representatives are there for some altruistic reasons, naive.

jazz music says

"why do you hate America so much?" --it's got too many assholes like you!

Bullshit you hide behind a facade

jazz music says

WTF are you talking about again? Oh yes she enunciated the core conservative ideology. Not too pretty, eh?

Which is the opposite of your conjecture.

jazz music says

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker. He never indicated during the election campaign that he would take the undemocratic action of essentially stripping away the freedom to collectively bargain for public employees.

Do you think the state was not going BK with the collective bargaining of the public servants?

jazz music says

You don't have to be pro-democrat to see the wisdom of voting to assure a defeat for the republicans.

Normally I would just say you are economically illiterate, but in your case it is something beyond illiteracy.

7   Entitlemented   2014 Jun 1, 1:40pm  

As a republican now, I was a D-Crat upon graduation of High School. So I went into the Navy, and saved for the VA College Benefit. Got a BSEE, and an MSEE.

Now since 80% of the college was arts and humanities, there was constant dicussion of how creative the arts were, and how much more the business majors were going to make.

But after a few classes, I realized that the 80% of courses were like high school, no knowledge or quantification of anything. But I liked Anthro and Impressionism.

Now I have worked in 4-5 jobs, and even when at engineering firms, many of the humanities workers were there too. Sadly only a few understand progressivism in R&D and manufacturing, but some of them realize this and work in good faith with everyone. But in reality, many of the libtards and humtards do not embrace progressive work and ethics.

As best as I can tell after working with many different educational backgrounds is that we cumulatively and separately reap what we sow.

8   Strategist   2014 Jun 1, 1:42pm  

jazz music says

People there is enough here on earth for us all to share. But money is the root of all this evil and the lie that turns the abundance of the world into a killing floor for the less powerful.

And so now what? You want to give everything as offering to the top few as if that was ever going to satisfy them? You think you will escape destruction by being their pawn? You tell me this: Is there honor among thieves?

If wealthy have shown us anything it is that they will never be satisfied; it's not at all in their nature. Even their children hate them.

So when you betray the interests of the majority, you end up betraying yourself, hastening your own defeat. That is what is at stake. That is what everybody has got to get right or else we continue rocketing back to medieval feudalism.

Have you seen the starving kids in Africa, Asia and South America? They have no food. What is there to share?
Have you seen people over indulge in America? They have too much food.
Do you know why? Because of capitLism.

9   indigenous   2014 Jun 1, 2:02pm  

jazz music says

It was going BK because the right wing set it up that way so they could use their echo chamber to make WI ground zero for destruction of organized labor.

You are fucked up. No Republican(let alone conservative) would legislate collective bargaining.

It is not a problem with organized labor, it is a problem with organized labor in the public sector. As they don't have to answer to the market place.

10   indigenous   2014 Jun 1, 2:30pm  

jazz music says

It's caused by a systemic breakdown of representative government, the rule of law, and loss of professional ethics in all sectors of government.

There was no representative government in the first place, that is charade.

The rule of law is one of the cornerstones, without it you would not have much of an economy.

Ethics in the government is an oxymoron, wasn't there in the first place. The main thing that changed is the size of the centralized, unaccountable, government.

11   Reality   2014 Jun 1, 3:16pm  

jazz music says

People there is enough here on earth for us all to share.

How many wild berries have you eaten in the past week? How many wild animals have you caught with your barehands and cooked without any man-made firemaking tool? It's hard to scratch a living with your barehands without the help of tools made by other people. That means, without production, there is very little to share.

But money is the root of all this evil and the lie that turns the abundance of the world into a killing floor for the less powerful.

Really? Do lions and stags fight each other to death over money? Animals fought and died over identical therefore conflicting desires long before humanity came along. Humanity fought and killed each other long before money was invented. In fact, money was and still is one of the most important tools in discovering different therefore complementary desires, so exchange and co-operation can take place efficiently.

jazz music says

And so now what? You want to give everything as offering to the top few as if that was ever going to satisfy them? You think you will escape destruction by being their pawn? You tell me this: Is there honor among thieves?

There is none. Therefore collectivism is a terrible idea.

jazz music says

If wealthy have shown us anything it is that they will never be satisfied; it's not at all in their nature. Even their children hate them.

Every human being wakes up every day with new desires. That's just human nature.

jazz music says

So when you betray the interests of the majority, you end up betraying yourself, hastening your own defeat. That is what is at stake. That is what everybody has got to get right or else we continue rocketing back to medieval feudalism.

Medieval feudalism is the epitomy of geographically based government. Trade and free market competition eventually brought down feudalism.

12   Vicente   2014 Jun 1, 3:50pm  

Reality says

Medieval feudalism is the epitomy of geographically based government. Trade and free market competition eventually brought down feudalism.

Globalism and free market wage arbitrage, will give feudalism right back to us. Substitute ConglomCo Industries for the monarchy, and wage slavery for serfdom.

13   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 1:08pm  

jazz music says

Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower they brought us out of the depression brought about by fiscal tyranny of boom and bust cycles just as now

No you dumb fuck, they did not. The main thing that Roosevelt did for ending the depression was die. Truman simply got rid of the meddling. Eisenhower was a good dude, but by then the depression was over.

Lay off the dope smoking and you might learn something.

14   Reality   2014 Jun 2, 1:14pm  

jazz music says

Reality says

How many wild berries have you eaten in the past week? How many wild animals have you caught with your barehands and cooked without any man-made firemaking tool?

What a pointless thing to say! Oppresion from ownership and state corruption are not required to have production.

Really? Every attempt at removing ownership of the fruit of one's own labor has resulted in the collapse of production. E.g. the Soviet famine of the 1920's, Chinese famine of the 1960's.

jazz music says

Reality says

Do lions and stags fight each other to death over money? Animals fought and died over identical therefore conflicting desires long before humanity came along. Humanity fought and killed each other long before money was invented.

Ridiculous talk about animals. Why are you so dense? This is not an indictment against money as a medium, this is recollection that over thousands of years since it's invention money has been known to be associated with the deadly sick love of money and that love of money is the sickness through which all the evil in our world flows from wars and robberies to murders and suicides. Can you really say that you have never heard of this concept? PuhLEEZE! NO one could be that naive

You are confusing love of money with love of power. People loved power before money was invented. People continue to love power after money was invented. Money puts somewhat of a restrain on power, one paying with money has to part with the money in order to get what he wants; whereas those playing with power do not have to part with any of the power. That's what makes a society revolving around money infinitely more enlightened and liberal than a society revolving around power.

15   Reality   2014 Jun 2, 1:22pm  

jazz music says


collectivism is a terrible

HowWhat would make one say such a stupid thing? If collectivism did not succeed in the 50's there would never have been a middle class. The middle class phenomenon stands as precious high point in the history of the human race. Now NewsCorp has people like yourself blithely voting against your existence like clockwork. Money in = "ditto heads" out.

Collectivist middle class which was your own springboard to relevance as a provider and responsible parent. Better not have any kids because the future of freedom is being ripped off, so they'll never let you retire, and they will be up against a wall of minimum wage or less choices. All as the top few hide behind their increasing layers of protective forces. You'll see their jets overhead and limos on occasion.

Do you even know what Collectivism is? Middle class is not a sea of equally impoverished proleteriat, but characterized by the ability to make independent choices. Collectivism is anathama to independent individual choice, therefore the antithetical to Middle Class. If you are talking about Collective Bargaining, it has little to do with collectivism, but everything to do with monopoly and thuggery. Ironically in a Collectivist society, independent labor movement would not even be allowed.

16   Reality   2014 Jun 2, 1:27pm  

jazz music says

Reality says

Every human being wakes up every day with new desires. That's just human nature.

Okay you are just trolling for the right. No one could possibly be this dense. Wake up! You aren't going to be okay any more if you don't start getting involved.

Involved in what? To make my own life worse?

Reality says

free market competition

The market exists in a government protected form that funnels the money to the top.

Nope. Free individual choice is what enables the individuals. Government enforcement funnels money to the top.

Before you go spinning off a mega tangent about "government is bad," that is not the point. The point is that we 99% must start actively driving our government to serve us or our special legalized form of bribery will continue until we are all on dirt floors in chains. --LITERALLY

The government is owned and run by the 0.01%. The well being of the 99% is dependent on the rest of the top 1% (outside of the 0.01%) being able to compete and offer the rest 99% better deals than the monopolists in the 0.01% do.

17   Dan8267   2014 Jun 2, 1:30pm  

The Right believes that the forces of free enterprise should run the economy. It is opposed to regulations in the interest of workers, the environment, consumers, the elderly and the powerless. However, any regulations that protect corporate and investor interests, such as ensuring that international trade agreements like NAFTA protect capital, patents and intellectual property, are fine.

Self-contradiction. Protection of corporate and investor interests violates free market principles. Hence, economic right wingers don't really believe in the free market.

They believe in a rigged market in which they are free to do anything they want. However, the term "free market" means a market that's free, not players in the market being free. Any situation where individual persons or corporations or small groups of either can sway the market is not a market that is free.

18   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 1:35pm  

jazz music says

Smoke me bitch! You want someone to love every piece of shit you cough up, but you stink from your role as the sexually dominated bottom.

You equate lay off the dope smoking to some sort of sexual fetish? That is fucked up.

You are economically illiterate...

19   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2014 Jun 2, 1:37pm  

The article cited in the OP operates on an entirely false premise.

No one argues that bad things don't happen, that misfortune befalls some, or that some people are just persistently behind life's 8 ball.

What is argued is:

1.) How do we provide a system that provides opportunity to the most people?

2.) How do we best help people that do not do well in the system?

Compassion isn't a govt vs. nothing else type thing, and this is evidenced by compassionate generous gifting that a whole lot of politically conservative people do. While for many its a religious impetus, its also a life policy for some. A really good example is Penn Jillette's work with Opportunity Village, a Las Vegas non profit that provides work and opportunity for mentally handicap individuals. While Penn isn't a Republican, he is a very strong advocate of the free market system...the type of person this article attempts to argue could give a shit less about other human beings. And lo and behold, here is a free market advocate who is protecting and looking out for the weakest amoungst us...the ones even the supposed compassionate govt has largely ignored.

Penn's appearance on Celebrity Apprentice had a strong impact on me, and I try to support that agenda myself by patronizing Boyd Properties casinos while I'm in Las Vegas because they use Opportunity Village as one of their vendors.

20   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 1:39pm  

Dan8267 says

Self-contradiction. Protection of corporate and investor interests violates free market principles. Hence, economic right wingers don't really believe in the free market.

They believe in a rigged market in which they are free to do anything they want. However, the term "free market" means a market that's free, not players in the market being free. Any situation where individual persons or corporations or small groups of either can sway the market is not a market that is free.

Moronic conjecture, care to introduce any facts?

21   Dan8267   2014 Jun 2, 2:28pm  

Go three levels up in the argument pyramid and I'll spend some of my precious time debating you. Till then, you're not worth it.

22   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 2:32pm  

Dan8267 says

Go three levels up in the argument pyramid and I'll spend some of my precious time debating you. Till then, you're not worth it.

Glib...

23   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 2:56pm  

Speaking of pyramids, GOP is firmy committed to keeping the lower classes stuck at lower levels of this one:

Keep 'em down, they never get beyond trying to keep up payments on the shitbox and staying awake through their 2 or 3 McJobs. They'll lap up that American Dream BS.

24   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 3:18pm  

Vicente says

The reality of "minimum government subsistence" is often the fast-food or Walmart worker who between McJob and kids has no time for anything.

Bullshit, they are a perk which incentivizes people to work in the under the table for cash.

25   Y   2014 Jun 2, 3:28pm  

Your wrong. you can stop right there.

jazz music says

People there is enough here on earth for us all to share.

26   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 3:43pm  

indigenous says

Bullshit, they are a perk which incentivizes people to work in the under the table for cash.

So they work a McJob, then work under the table, then spend even more time standing in lines and filling out forms or peeing in a cup or whatever to collect welfare. Man that seems like a damn lot of work for layabouts. Can't quite wrap my head around that.

The thing Richie Rich does best, is teach you to hate the working poor. Poors must be defective, and deserving of their low station in life. Hate and fear them for stealing from you, and getting things they don't deserve. Then they fill your channels with Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous BS, and reality shows where a bunch of upper middle class idiots sit around and bitch at each other and never really work, so you are conditioned that anyone who has money deserves it and should idolized.

What a great system they built. For themselves.

27   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 4:02pm  

Vicente says

Can't quite wrap my head around that.

Lose the conjecture, very very few people stay in the lowest quintile.

Many are illegal.

The government transfers incentivize them to stay in the lowest quintile and work under the table.

The number of people on permanent disability has ballooned to 10 million. That is the government incentivizing more than a jump in the number of people coming up lame.

28   Heraclitusstudent   2014 Jun 2, 4:04pm  

indigenous says

What would the world be without government at all?

Study history: without governments, people wouldn't play by any rules. 1 person would ambush an other to steal her. Until groups of people organize to defend each other. You would then have tribes, raiding and killing each other, and playing by basic rules enforced by an autocrat leader. Stronger tribes would then organize in cities. Each city would organize their sewers, trade, etc... But one city would attack the next one for access to this or that resource. Then they would organize as countries. Which is where we are.

Inside a large country you have roads, sewers, law enforcement, courts, army, you have financial regulations, environment defense. All this top-organization. Is it really that bad? Wouldn't it be better if everyone was drawing their own roads? Having their own army, their own currency? No. It would be just stupid.

29   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 4:12pm  

Heraclitusstudent says

Study history

Yea yea, the current situation has grown to the tyranny of democracy. It will collapse, it is all about debt.

The better method would be to privatize roads, sewers, law enforcement, courts, army, you have financial regulations, environment defense.

This way you have market forces keeping the tyranny of democracy in check.

30   Heraclitusstudent   2014 Jun 2, 4:13pm  

indigenous says

number of people on permanent disability has ballooned to 10 million.

Do you realize it's better not to have millions of starving people poor enough to want to kill you and take what you have?

31   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 4:16pm  

Heraclitusstudent says

Do you realize it's better not to have millions of starving people poor enough to want to kill you and take what you have?

Do you realize that when the country implodes from debt that starving people are going to eat your face?

32   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 4:37pm  

indigenous says

Lose the conjecture, very very few people stay in the lowest quintile.

The Great Gatsby Curve, disagrees with your conjecture.

Very very few? Pew Study said 43% of citizens born into bottom quintile, will live and die there. Your illusion of poor people remaining poor only because they are a few scattered defectives, so few we can discount them and not worry ourselves, does not square with facts. Substitute illusion with delusion would be more accurate.

33   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 4:56pm  

The world has evolved, at some point they realize that war costs are more expensive than trading with other countries. The benefits of trade and comparative advantage are also the knowledge gained through the communication attendant with trade.

Somalia: How Has Life Changed?
Index 1991 2011 (or latest)
Life expectancy 46 years 50 years
Birth rate 46 44
Death rate 19 16
GDP per capita $210 $600
Infant mortality 116 deaths

vs 109

Access to safe water 35% 29%
Adult literacy 24% 38%

34   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 5:09pm  

Vicente says

Very very few? Pew Study said 43% of citizens born into bottom quintile, will live and die there.

This is a quote from Thomas Sowell, the data comes from the IRS:

A University of Michigan study showed that most of the working people who were in the bottom 20 percent of income earners in 1975 were also in the top 40 percent at some point by 1991. Only 5 percent of those in the bottom quintile in 1975 were still there in 1991, while 29 percent of them were now in the top quintile.

People in the media and in politics choose statistics that seem to prove what they want to prove. But the rest of us should become aware of what games are being played with numbers.

http://www.creators.com/opinion/thomas-sowell/numbers-games.html

35   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 5:14pm  

indigenous says

This is a quote from Thomas Sowell

The first line of your article:

"One of the things that has struck me, when I have gone on luxury cruise ships,"

Yeah this guy is totally in touch with the lower quintile.

36   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 5:16pm  

Vicente says

Yeah this guy is totally in touch with the lower quintile.

He was making a point, try and pay attention and not revert to ad hominem

37   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 5:57pm  

indigenous says

A University of Michigan study showed that most of the working people who were in the bottom 20 percent of income earners in 1975 were also in the top 40 percent at some point by 1991.

Well it's a good thing we here in 1992 are riding high!

Oh wait we aren't in 1992. I want to rollback to 1999, I was riding high back then!

I have no idea which U Mich study your hack is referencing, but it would be more useful to look at something closer to 2014.

Every time I meet someone from my old high school, I'm struck by how many of them are fairly close to the same socioeconomic status they were in 3 decades ago. The exceptions to this are few. The plural of anecdote is not data however.

38   indigenous   2014 Jun 2, 6:08pm  

Vicente says

I have no idea which U Mich study your hack is referencing

If he is a hack, I would be surprised if you get around on your hind legs.

39   Vicente   2014 Jun 2, 6:13pm  

indigenous says

If he is a hack, I would be surprised if you get around on your hind legs.

Feel better now that you got that direct insult out of your system? Get a towel and wipe your chair down.

40   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2014 Jun 2, 11:16pm  

Yeah you are right Vicente, real life Eeyores who don't go get treated for their mental illness(and there are a plethora of low income programs for this...at least in Los Angeles...I can refer you if you like) tend to stay depressed and not have much drive.

For everyone else, they def work hard to get ahead. I will admit that economic conditions created by your choice of president has made it MUCH more difficult to climb the ladder than in the past.

And BTW, your outlook on life just plain sucks.

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