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Germans view the U.S. as militaristic


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2014 Jul 11, 1:02pm   9,240 views  29 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-heilbrunn-u-s--germany-relations-20140711-story.html

Charles Dharapak / Associated Press President Obama is seen with German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a G-7 working dinner in Brussels on June 4. President Obama is seen with German Chancellor Angela Merkel at a G-7 working dinner in Brussels on June 4.

#politics

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1   Ceffer   2014 Jul 11, 1:50pm  

Who said the Germans don't have a sense of humor.

2   bob2356   2014 Jul 11, 10:38pm  

Ceffer says

Who said the Germans don't have a sense of humor.

I think a sense of irony is more appropriate.

3   Strategist   2014 Jul 12, 2:56am  

mmmarvel says

I got other things to worry about, like the next stupid move that Obama will make.

What do you think that will be? Here is my list of the top 5:
1. He will neglect housing and wreck it.
2. He will do nothing about immigration.
3. He will not destroy Iranian nukes.
4. He will screw up the whole Middle East.
5. He will fail to get the economy up to speed.

4   Bigsby   2014 Jul 12, 7:35am  

He used the wrong name, but you agreed with the point, so...

5   mmmarvel   2014 Jul 13, 1:33am  

Strategist says

mmmarvel says

I got other things to worry about, like the next stupid move that Obama will make.

What do you think that will be? Here is my list of the top 5:

1. He will neglect housing and wreck it.

2. He will do nothing about immigration.

3. He will not destroy Iranian nukes.

4. He will screw up the whole Middle East.

5. He will fail to get the economy up to speed.

Strange, my original comment has disappeared. However, in answer to your question I think he will do all five pretty much at the same time by basically staying on the golf course (where his game still sucks).

6   mmmarvel   2014 Jul 14, 11:50am  

tovarichpeter says

Germans view the U.S. as militaristic

And I view Germans as a bunch of thick headed idiots - so?? Everyone has an opinion and just like my view doesn't mean all Germans are like that, so too not all Germans view us that way. Add to that I'm not terribly concerned about what other countries view us as. I got other things to worry about, like the next stupid move that Obama will make.

7   Strategist   2014 Jul 14, 12:13pm  

Call it Crazy says

mmmarvel says

And I view Germans as a bunch of thick headed idiots

But they did win the World Cup!

And they make the best cars. Unlike our Government Motors - GM.

8   sam1   2014 Jul 14, 4:05pm  

The German auto industry wouldn't be anywhere near where it is now without the strong government backing it received (most notably in the 1930s), same with the Japanese auto industry (enabled by post-war MITI policies). Government motors indeed...

9   zzyzzx   2014 Jul 14, 11:35pm  

Seem fair since most Americans probably still view Germany as militaristic.

10   edvard2   2014 Jul 15, 12:56am  

Strategist says

And they make the best cars. Unlike our Government Motors - GM.

Not really. They make a lot of really overly complicated, over-engineered cars with rife reliability problems. Just check out most any long-term reliability report and with the exception of perhaps just one or two brands, just about all German car brands are either well below GM with some near the bottom of the list.

I can't even tell you how many people I know who have owned either VW's, Audis, Mercedes, or BMWs which while handled and looked great were constantly having one electrical or strange mechanical issue one after the other. My Mother in law's VW has less than 100k on the clock and the interior is literally falling apart in pieces, the transmission had to be rebuilt, the intake clogs with carbon deposits, the battery mysteriously goes dead all the time despite it being new, and one day the windshield wiper motor just suddenly came loose from its bracket.

Let me put it this way: I grew up driving nothing buy Toyotas and the damned things just went forever and ever. I recently bought a Chevy Volt and it is by far leaps and bounds above the quality GM cars were just 10 years ago and a daresay better than the Toyotas I drove before it.

11   bob2356   2014 Jul 15, 2:44am  

edvard2 says

They make a lot of really overly complicated, over-engineered cars with rife reliability problems. Just check out most any long-term reliability report and with the exception of perhaps just one or two brands, just about all German car brands are either well below GM with some near the bottom of the list

That's not what jdpowers says. http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability-press-release.htm
With the exception of 1 or 2 brands? There are only 5 brands to start with. Porsche,Mercedes,Porsche are all above gm. Audi is slightly below gm. Vw is the only laggard. Considering the complexities of the cars like bmw and mercedes vs the average gm (or toyota) product that's pretty amazing. If you have 3 times as many components you should have 3 times as many problems.

I've owned a bmw of one kind or another as one of my cars for many many years. Along with many ford or gm products. Bmw's are very well engineered and well built. Far superior to gm, at a far superior price. I do all my own work and follow bmw service/repair guidelines religiously. People who think they can take cars this complicated to someone who works on pickup trucks whenever it occurs to them to bother and expect to get good results are sure to be disappointed.

12   Strategist   2014 Jul 15, 2:53am  

edvard2 says

Let me put it this way: I grew up driving nothing buy Toyotas and the damned things just went forever and ever. I recently bought a Chevy Volt and it is by far leaps and bounds above the quality GM cars were just 10 years ago and a daresay better than the Toyotas I drove before it.

I love Toyotas. My next car is likely to be a Volt. :)
But those German cars are beautiful. "Precision German Engineering"

13   Strategist   2014 Jul 15, 2:56am  

bob2356 says

I've owned a bmw of one kind or another as one of my cars for many many years. Along with many ford or gm products. Bmw's are very well engineered and well built. Far superior to gm, at a far superior price. I do all my own work and follow bmw service/repair guidelines religiously. People who think they can take cars this complicated to someone who works on pickup trucks whenever it occurs to them to bother and expect to get good results are sure to be disappointed.

A few years ago we changed all our appliances to "GE Cafe" which has a lot of fancy electronics. On every one of them the control panel dies after 2 some years. Replacing them is damn expensive. Our old appliances lasted for ever. These modern electronics can be tricky.

14   mmmarvel   2014 Jul 15, 3:08am  

Strategist says

I love Toyotas. My next car is likely to be a Volt. :)

Love Toyotas, my last Camry lasted 14 years and 249,000 miles. Just bought a new one and I can't see myself EVER buying a Volt, let alone any other GM car. Might go for a Prius but I'd like to see that technology put in a Tacoma - course I don't live in CA (thank God).

15   edvard2   2014 Jul 15, 3:22am  

bob2356 says

With the exception of 1 or 2 brands? There are only 5 brands to start with. Porsche,Mercedes,Porsche are all above gm. Audi is slightly below gm. Vw is the only laggard. Considering the complexities of the cars like bmw and mercedes vs the average gm (or toyota) product that's pretty amazing. If you have 3 times as many components you should have 3 times as many problems.

That report is for short-term reliability. The problem for most German cars and others that are prone to reliability problems are in the long term, as in 5-10 years, which is below the avg. time a consumer keeps a car.

Even so, if I were to even entertain the notion that Mercedes was just under Toyota, well hell- that's not saying much given that Toyota's bread and butter are econo-cars and bloated family sedans costing 10's of thousands of dollars less than most any Mercedes.

Either way, the typical ownership experience of the typical German car owner is that when they're new they're great. 5 years later the cars are literally full of bugs, problems and gremlins. Hell- if you want one of the best deals on a luxury car assuming you have deep wallets to keep them running when they break down, just look at some of the top-of-the-line BMW and Mercedes models: Many lose as much as 80% of their value in under 10 years. Why? Because as soon as the warranty expires they become very expensive liabilities and their owners dump them like a brick immediately

16   Strategist   2014 Jul 15, 3:29am  

mmmarvel says

Strategist says

I love Toyotas. My next car is likely to be a Volt. :)

Love Toyotas, my last Camry lasted 14 years and 249,000 miles. Just bought a new one and I can't see myself EVER buying a Volt, let alone any other GM car. Might go for a Prius but I'd like to see that technology put in a Tacoma - course I don't live in CA (thank God).

Every car we buy, we keep for 10+ years. With 3 to 4 cars in the family works out to a new car every 4 years or so. We absolutely love the quality Toyotas. The Prius is by far the most common sense car I have ever purchased. I want the Volt, mostly for my daughter, so she can go on the car pool lane without 2 people in the car.

17   Strategist   2014 Jul 15, 3:31am  

mmmarvel says

course I don't live in CA (thank God).

What? The streets in California are paved with gold. Ask and illegal alien.

18   edvard2   2014 Jul 15, 4:25am  

Strategist says

I can't see myself EVER buying a Volt, let alone any other GM car. Might go for a Prius but I'd like to see that technology put in a Tacoma - course I don't live in CA (thank God).

I thought the same thing before the Volt came out. If you've never driven one of these, before you do so forget everything you know or feel about GM. The Volt was a Halo car for GM and a LOT of effort went into developing it. I've driven a lot of cars and the overall fit and finish, the interior quality, handling and gadget appeal is far and beyond anything I've owned and frankly the quality is better than any BMW I've driven. Its really that good and on top of that they simply just work. I filled the car up last week: It was the first time Its been filled up since March...

19   corntrollio   2014 Jul 15, 4:45am  

edvard2 says

The problem for most German cars and others that are prone to reliability problems are in the long term, as in 5-10 years, which is below the avg. time a consumer keeps a car.

Only because a large percentage of them are leased, and then some jackass picks them up for half the price and fails to maintain them.

edvard2 says

Toyota, well hell- that's not saying much given that Toyota's bread and butter are econo-cars and bloated family sedans costing 10's of thousands of dollars less than most any Mercedes.

The price of a loaded Camry vs. the cheapest Mercedes? The top non-hybrid Camry starts above $30K and tops out around $35K. The Mercedes CLA's base price is available on billboards and commercials featuring Kate Upton for cheaper than that.

Of course, if you're talking about an E-Class or S-Class, sure. I don't even consider a CLA or a C-Class to be a real Mercedes, but lots of people are keeping up with the Kardashians.

edvard2 says

Either way, the typical ownership experience of the typical German car owner is that when they're new they're great. 5 years later the cars are literally full of bugs, problems and gremlins. Hell- if you want one of the best deals on a luxury car assuming you have deep wallets to keep them running when they break down, just look at some of the top-of-the-line BMW and Mercedes models: Many lose as much as 80% of their value in under 10 years. Why? Because as soon as the warranty expires they become very expensive liabilities and their owners dump them like a brick immediately

Again, only true if you're a lazy schmuck who doesn't maintain your car. If you are incapable of properly maintaining a car, don't buy German. If you're a dumbass who thinks you can buy a $60K car and have running costs of a Honda Fit, you're a chump.

If you think all cars need is gas, oil, and tires, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to somewhere other than Germany. I've seen these cars, and even when they're Toyotas, and they run and sound like ass, despite the cheapass owner claiming they're fine.

edvard2 says

That report is for short-term reliability.

Btw, GM also did well on the VDS:

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2014-vehicle-dependability-study

20   edvard2   2014 Jul 15, 5:15am  

corntrollio says

Again, only true if you're a lazy schmuck who doesn't maintain your car. If you are incapable of properly maintaining a car, don't buy German. If you're a dumbass who thinks you can buy a $60K car and have running costs of a Honda Fit, you're a chump.

That's makes no sense. So what you're saying is that somehow Toyota has managed to engineer cars ands trucks that often times really and truly only need to have their oil changed, spark plugs every 100k or so and regular maintenance and go for 100's of thousands of miles while German cars are deemed superior only if you go in and "Maintain themn", albeit at a more specific and involved level because if you don't they fall apart? Nonsense.

let me put it this way: My Brother had a 98' Avalon until last year. You made the comment about how that we shouldn't expect a 60k Bimmer to have the same running costs as a fit. Ok, well his car had power and heated seats, power windows, mirrors, a 8 speaker sound system, and a whole shit-ton of other goodies. The car was loaded. He basically did nothing other than change the oil and maybe a new air cleaner and a transmission fluid change every 4 years. That car had close to 325,000 miles on it when he sold it and ALL of those things still worked.

So in that stance does BMW and Mercedes somehow get special treatment when their shit breaks down unless its babied to death? Engineering is engineering and regardless of what people seem to say about german cars, the fact that Toyota, Honda, and even many US brands are above them in reliability tells a different story.

21   corntrollio   2014 Jul 15, 6:50am  

edvard2 says

corntrollio says

If you're a dumbass who thinks you can buy a $60K car and have running costs of a Honda Fit, you're a chump.

That's makes no sense.

Why doesn't it? Isn't it reasonable to expect a $60K car to have more expensive parts than a $13K car? Cheapass bastards buy an older 7-Series BMW and balk at the first $500 repair (that would have been $250 if it was a Ford instead of a BMW 7-Series). Then, they let these problems get worse, and suddenly it's a $3000 repair, and they tell everyone they know what a piece of crap the German car is.

edvard2 says

So what you're saying is that somehow Toyota has managed to engineer cars ands trucks that often times really and truly only need to have their oil changed, spark plugs every 100k or so and regular maintenance and go for 100's of thousands of miles while German cars are deemed superior only if you go in and "Maintain themn", albeit at a more specific and involved level because if you don't they fall apart? Nonsense.

No, I'm saying lazy people don't follow the maintenance schedule and cause even larger expensive repairs and that these repairs are more expensive on German cars typically. I've had old cars, and whether American, Japanese, or German, things break at 325K miles and well before that point too. I'm saying people are lying if all they did is change the oil and spark plugs according to what you said.

edvard2 says

k, well his car had power and heated seats, power windows, mirrors, a 8 speaker sound system, and a whole shit-ton of other goodies. The car was loaded.

Those are standard on most US-market German cars (although before the financial crisis, you could probably opt out of them more easily -- now they are more often sold in packages). What's your point? If you equip an Avalon that way, it costs more than a BMW 3-series.

edvard2 says

He basically did nothing other than change the oil and maybe a new air cleaner and a transmission fluid change every 4 years. That car had close to 325,000 miles on it when he sold it and ALL of those things still worked.

That's not even what I'm talking about. German car suspensions are more serious and well-engineered due to needing high-speed stability on the autobahn. Cheapass bastards lower them and use shitty after-market components on them, which puts stress on all of the suspension components and other driveline components. German cars typically require synthetic oil because of their higher performance engines. Cheapass bastards use the swill at Kmart (Walmart has Mobil One, but the bastards are still too cheap) and their engine sludges and their oil pump clogs. These are expensive problems to fix on a German car, but easy to avoid, and people who keep German cars for double-digit numbers of years are good about maintenance.

German car brakes cost more because they are autobahn-worthy. Cheapass bastards put shitty rotors and shitty brake pads on them and expect good stopping. German wheels are of extreme high quality due to TUV standards. Shitheads put cheapo China-made wheels on them because they think they look cool (even though they look tacky), but distort their suspensions and lower the ride quality and handling abilities.

Maybe your brother had some magical car only driven on smooth highways for 20K miles/year, but I've seen Toyotas and Hondas with broken CV joints. I had a Toyota blow a cat at 70K, which is extremely early for that. I've seen Toyotas where the lights just stop working after 10 years, and you have to get some expensive electronic part shipped from Japan that takes 6 weeks to track down.

I've seen these "oil, gas, and tires only" cars, and they sound like shit. I can diagnose the problems while hearing them idle and hearing them pass by.

edvard2 says

the fact that Toyota, Honda, and even many US brands are above them in reliability tells a different story.

I've never found Toyotas or Hondas to be better or worse for reliability in my own practice, but I'm good about maintenance for all cars. I've had cars that supposedly suck go over 200K miles. Cheapass bastards let problems fester. German cars do just fine in Europe, but American cheapasses complain a lot.

To be fair, I've heard a rumor that the highest line German cars (S-Class, 7-Series) don't always have the best reliability because you can't get A-level suppliers to provide the parts. Those cars are so low volume that sometimes certain suppliers don't want to do orders that are that small. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

There are also certain periods where there were problems with certain elements of German cars, but that's true everywhere. There was an era where Euro plastics weren't as good because of environmental regulations. In addition, Mercedes paint from the dark era (late 90s/early 00s) tended to suck and chip easily, supposedly because the paint regulations changed in Europe. These things get fixed fairly quickly, of course.

22   Strategist   2014 Jul 15, 7:04am  

Call it Crazy says

Went for a Honda Ridgeline.... Was the absolutely best choice I've ever made... (well, second best choice besides my wife :)....

She's not peeking over your shoulder anymore. You can now tell the truth.

23   edvard2   2014 Jul 15, 8:39am  

corntrollio says

Why doesn't it? Isn't it reasonable to expect a $60K car to have more expensive parts than a $13K car

You missed the part of my commentary concerning my brother's Avalon. But in any regard, Lexus makes cars that are every bit as nice and full of gadgety crap as BMW and Mercedes and yet those cars don't break down hardly ever. If I pay 60k for a caar then I expect it to be the quality of a 60k car. The fact that most Bimmers can't manage to hold the same level of quality as some cheap econocar from Toyota is pretty ironic huh? If lexus can do it... then BMW should be able to do it too.corntrollio says

That's not even what I'm talking about. German car suspensions are more serious and well-engineered due to needing high-speed stability on the autobahn. Cheapass bastards lower them and use shitty after-market components on them, which puts stress on all of the suspension components and other driveline components. German cars typically require synthetic oil because of their higher performance engines. Cheapass bastards use the swill at Kmart (Walmart has Mobil One, but the bastards are still too cheap) and their engine sludges and their oil pump clogs. These are expensive problems to fix on a German car, but easy to avoid, and people who keep German cars for double-digit numbers of years are good about maintenance.

I'll repeat what I just did above. Lexus also builds cars with high performance engines and all that other crap. Yet mysteriously they don't break down. Want to know why? Because they build better cars while the likes of BMW builds worse cars that tend to break more often. Its really that simple.corntrollio says

Cheapass bastards let problems fester. German cars do just fine in Europe, but American cheapasses complain a lot.

I actually read a number of European car sites as well as domestic ones. The complaints and notoriety that german cars have here are the same as there...

24   corntrollio   2014 Jul 16, 4:47am  

edvard2 says

But in any regard, Lexus makes cars that are every bit as nice and full of gadgety crap as BMW and Mercedes and yet those cars don't break down hardly ever. If I pay 60k for a caar then I expect it to be the quality of a 60k car. The fact that most Bimmers can't manage to hold the same level of quality as some cheap econocar from Toyota is pretty ironic huh?

You're talking about a straw man. My German cars haven't broken down regularly either, and neither did my American cars or my Japanese cars, and that's partly because they were *my* cars. The typical Land Cruiser enthusiast who has an old Land Cruiser and reads ih8mud doesn't break down because he (usually he) is a fiend about maintenance (and spends a shitload on it because it's a Land Cruiser). Same with my cars.

It's the assholes who buy them several years used who are driving this discussion. I think it's a bad sample. One thing I will point out is that the typical lease rate for Lexus (and Audi) is much lower than BMW and Mercedes, partly because BMW and Mercedes have historically subsidized leases a bit to drive more sales. There are more used and abused cars on the market from BMW and Mercedes as a result. The average Lexus driver is also older (and makes less money, oddly -- don't know how that works):

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/driving-a-bmw-six-figure-salary-and-a-college-education.html

Despite the averages, when I think of a typical new BMW driver, I think of a younger person who stretched to buy/lease the car in the first place and can't really afford to fix it and drive like shitheads (which of course increases maintenance costs). I also think of 20-somethings buying old BMWs who can't afford to fix them and who also drive like shitheads.

The other thing my BMW-owning friends (who aren't those typical people) complain about is the repair costs, but they typically go to the dealer and get ripped off (as you would for any brand -- I see Lexus guys complaining about this too).

edvard2 says

Lexus also builds cars with high performance engines and all that other crap. Yet mysteriously they don't break down. Want to know why? Because they build better cars while the likes of BMW builds worse cars that tend to break more often. Its really that simple.

Lexus definitely doesn't build very many high performance engines -- not sure where you're getting that. There's the IS-F engine and all 500 of the LF-A engines, but those comprise a tiny segment of Lexus sales. Lexus typically uses quasi-in-house transmissions from Aisin (which is at least partially owned by Toyota), but some German cars use those Aisin transmissions too (Audi/VW in particular) and so do certain other cars like Volvo, although BMW typically uses ZF and Mercedes often uses in-house or ZF. I wonder how many forum-dwellers complain about their Aisin transmissions in their German car....

Almost all cars have so many fewer problems than cars back in the day because manufacturing processes have gotten better and so many vehicles share from the same parts bin (that's why recalls are so big too and can affect multiple brands). What JD Power is measuring these days probably isn't always statistically significant any more between some of the brands that differ by small numbers. I have no doubt that Lexus is probably doing a much better job than Range Rover (it really doesn't take much to top the British and Lucas, Prince of Darkness), but among the top 10, the differences are likely slight these days.

Btw, last I checked, Audi was right up there with Lexus and Acura in the Consumer Reports rankings. The Audi A6 was ranked the top for luxury cars:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-25/tesla-sedan-is-ranked-best-overall-by-consumer-reports.html

As recently as a few years ago, a handful of Japanese brands swept the magazine’s best picks list, said Rik Paul, automotive editor for Consumer Reports, said in an interview. That’s no longer the case, he said. Brands like Nissan and Honda haven’t been as consistent, while their competition has gotten better, he said.

“Gone are the days when you could say buy a Japanese model, and it will be reliable,” Paul said.

Scions (also made by Toyota and often in Japan) are complete and utter pieces of shit, just as one example. Cadillacs and Buicks are awesome and top categories and tie with Lexus sometimes (the late Cadillac DTS and Lexus LS tied for top of category on JD Power), although Chevy less so.

As I mentioned, various brands also had dark ages, often in the late 90s/early 2000s. Lexus had some problems with sludging engines from this era. There was a lot of building to a cost point in this era because of what was going on economically -- that's when Mercedes had their problems too.

The Toyota Camrys that are built today are not nearly as good as the quasi-Lexus Toyota Camrys that were built before that dark era of cost-cutting and de-contenting -- 1997 and onward hasn't been the same in Toyota-land. The Corolla finally has something other than a 4-speed automatic available in its current model (if you don't get the base version) because Toyota kept its cheapo, but reliable, 4-speed auto in that car for so long -- it should be reliable at this point because it's ancient.

25   edvard2   2014 Jul 16, 5:15am  

corntrollio says

It's the assholes who buy them several years used who are driving this discussion. I think it's a bad sample.

Your contributing commentary to this thread so far has been based on a claim that somehow, "Assholes" aren't treating their cars well.

I disagree with that reasoning. The real reason is the differences in engineering. I will explain with a few examples.

First example would be my former house mate's Mercedes C class. The car was nice enough and like many Mercedes handled and drove great. Lo and behold the sun roof stopped working one day. To boil it down simply, the way the mechanism that opened the roof worked was more or less as a stamped together integrated unit meaning that this entire mechanism had to be replaced at the cost over $3,200.

Second example and this is one of my favorites and driving home a point. My Mother in law owns an 04' VW Jetta TDI, 5 speed manual with a 1.4 liter diesel engine. Anyway... one day it started leaking coolant. It- just like Audi cars ( Audi being part of VAG ) has a pressurized sphere for the overflow coolant reservoir.

Now on most cars I've owned the reservoir is a a gravity-fed unpressurized container akin to a piece of tupperware. A hose simply drains down into it from above. On this VW as well as other VAG products the pressurized sphere was not only under high pressure, but has a locking cap up top and a sort of pressure, temp sensor sealed through the bottom via a rubber O-ring. In other words this one piece of the drivetrain had many more components to function over the more simple overflow tanks I see on the likes of Toyota vehicles. Over time the rubber O-ring had disintegrated likely due to heating and cooling cycles. The O-ring failed and hence the leak.

This example is precisely why many German cars are more problem-prone: Many are unnecessarily over-engineered for no real good reason. Instead of limiting the number of parts so that any given component has less of them to fail in the first place, the seeming outcome of many German car components is the opposite, and hence the higher rated of failure amongst their brands.

Still another example was one of my neighbor's very nice BMW 5 series. She was very proud of this car when she pulled it in front of her house, just off the dealer lot. It had some of those nice HID headlights too. Well... The next day she calls me over to look at it as I am the neighborhood fix-it guy. The headlights wouldn't come on. So I flip open the hood and take a look. Now on most cars the connections to lights and other components is done via a simple 2 wire connector with a clicking harness connection. But on this BMW the connection had a strange "Cloverleaf" shaped set of prongs which made contact with the rear of the bulb enclosure. The way it looked to me was that there was a far more likely chance for added resistance to the connections since IMHO the connections were not as secure. But anyway I got out my multimeter and with the switch thrown picked up no voltage. In fact the entire lead going to the lights was dead.

Long story short the car used a complicated set of onboard CPUs to power the lights and one of these modules had gone bad. The cost, had the car not been under warranty would have been $1,200. That's right- a grand for fixing stupid headlights.

I could go on further because as someone who likes to tinker with cars I've seen my fair share of cars like these which are deemed as "superior" and full of that good ole' German Engineering yet within 5 years are rolling buckets of crap. Nobody ever believes it until it happens to them and of all the people I know who own cars, its been the people who have owned BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, VW's and Minis ( Its a BMW ) that have had the most problems. That is except for those who owned Ford Tauruses from the 80's and 90's.

26   corntrollio   2014 Jul 16, 8:07am  

edvard2 says

That is except for those who owned Ford Tauruses from the 80's and 90's.

Funny, I had one of those and had very few problems -- it was comparable to Toyotas or Hondas I drove regularly. I spent something on repairs for sure -- I know I replaced a CV boot, a tierod, an alternator, etc., but it was very little -- probably $500-1000/year in the peak-cost year and less than that in others. Not bad for a 10-year old car that I drove for several years. The weakest point that everyone complains about was supposed to be the transmission, and it did die eventually, but at something north of 180K (can't remember exact number, could have been 190-200), but that's probably not bad for what some people call the worst transmission ever made (probably they never changed the fluid?).

edvard2 says

Minis ( Its a BMW )

Minis are pieces of shit for sure, BMW or not.

edvard2 says

To boil it down simply, the way the mechanism that opened the roof worked was more or less as a stamped together integrated unit meaning that this entire mechanism had to be replaced at the cost over $3,200.

I think your friend got taken by the dealership. There are other dealerships that will fix the sunroofs and don't assert they are non-serviceable:

http://mbworld.orgs/e-class-w211/322398-e320-panoramic-sunroof-repairs.html

edvard2 says

My Mother in law owns an 04' VW Jetta TDI, 5 speed manual with a 1.4 liter diesel engine. Anyway... one day it started leaking coolant. It- just like Audi cars ( Audi being part of VAG ) has a pressurized sphere for the overflow coolant reservoir.

Now on most cars I've owned the reservoir is a a gravity-fed unpressurized container akin to a piece of tupperware.

My understanding is that pressurization allows a higher temperature cooling system, which creates better fuel efficiency. There are reasons to do it beyond simplicity.

I'm not sure which cars have that design, but I know several VWs and probably Audis that are on VW platforms (TT, A2, A3) probably do. I don't know why it's spherical, but maybe the pressurization has something to do with it. A sphere won't have weak points like a box would.

Also, I think that might be a coolant level sensor, not a temperature sensor, but I'd have to look at a manual to be sure. The temperature sensor would usually not be in the reservoir for most cars -- don't think VW would do this differently.

edvard2 says

Long story short the car used a complicated set of onboard CPUs to power the lights and one of these modules had gone bad. The cost, had the car not been under warranty would have been $1,200. That's right- a grand for fixing stupid headlights.

Corollas have the same problem, FWIW, and I know someone who has had this problem. The module doesn't cost as much, but it might take a few weeks to get from Japan (according to the mechanic at least, which surprised me, since US-market Corollas are typically made in the US), as I mentioned in a previous post. And that's with their old halogens, which are pretty basic technology.

For an HID on a Lexus, it could cost even more -- this guy got quoted $1700:
http://www.clublexus.coms/is-first-generation/530961-replacing-my-hid-control-module.html

Do you know if it was the ballast or some other control module? Usually you can get these things cheaper online than at a dealership -- not surprised by anything a dealer might quote.

So your Tacoma managed to avoid rust, ball joint issues, leaf spring issues, and, if you have an automatic transmissions, clunks?

27   HydroCabron   2014 Jul 16, 8:12am  

Call it Crazy says

6. He will pass more drastic Executive Orders to circumvent Congress because he can't get his way and will react like a spoiled child.

What's fascinating here is blaming Obama for doing nothing, without acknowledging that Congress will block anything he tries.

In spite of this, the number of executive orders coming from this administration is lower than from any other since Grover Cleveland.

There are plenty of factual criticisms to be made of Obama. Got any?

28   edvard2   2014 Jul 16, 9:02am  

corntrollio says

So your Tacoma managed to avoid rust, ball joint issues, leaf spring issues, and, if you have an automatic transmissions, clunks?

My Taco hasn't had those issues. But I live in California where it rarely rains and it doesn't snow. Rust has been an issue for the frames for certain years. But Toyota also offered to buy back any tacoma for twice its blue book value or replace the entire frame. I can't think of any other automaker that would make that commitment. Mine so far as over 250,000 miles and it is starting to show some fading in the paint on parts of the hood and some of the rubber trim is dry rotted. But for an 18 year old truck it has held up amazingly well.

I took a huge leap of faith with GM when I bought the Volt. I had a Prius before that which had almost 200,000 miles when it was sold and it, like the Tacoma, was a flawless car which is amazing given the sheer amount of complexity involved in the car.

29   corntrollio   2014 Jul 16, 9:31am  

edvard2 says

I had a Prius before that which had almost 200,000 miles when it was sold and it, like the Tacoma, was a flawless car which is amazing given the sheer amount of complexity involved in the car.

Which generation? The first generation ones don't hold up very well as to interior, in particular, and my friend had some mechanical issues as well. I believe they got Toyota to cover the battery even though it was barely out of warranty (8 years I think for that component), but the inverter still needed to be replaced and not sure what else that was attendant to that (sometimes the cooling for the inverter is a common problem as I understand). I think the other thing I've heard about is wheel bearings, and then ironically sometimes people have emissions issues (they ignore the CEL for long periods of time).

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