patrick.net

He, someone knocks on your door, it could be a terrorist. Plus, if they awaken you, you have every right to blow their head of with a shotgun blast. You can always ask questions later, but obviously not from the headless trespasser. UPS delivery guys can always start wearing body armor, and can be instructed to stay low.

Well, if you live in Detroit and somebody is banging on your door in the middle of the night-how on earth would you know how many are out there? Detroit ain't Beverly Hills.

Ahh. The old "I thought it wasn't loaded" so "I shot in self-defense" because "I wasn't going to cower in my own house" routine.

I remember when "a colored gal on my porch" was all the excuse a god-fearing murderer needed. Thanks a lot Obama.

This has nothing to with race. Some drunk stranger starts banging on your door in the middle of the night in Detroit-sorry but those are the situations you need a gun for. Detroit has the highest rate of violent crime for any US city over 200k population in 2012.

If there were more people like this homeowner, crime rates would fall.

In certain communities like Detroit, it should be legal to shoot potential criminals from your car. "That guy looks like trouble. Blam!" Could be a new car segment and might cause a return of the Hummer.

Banging your door, in the middle of the night-that is different than what you suggest.

Well, they should pass a law then. It is legal to blow someone's head off if they bang on your door from 10PM till 8AM. But what about doorbell ringing?

Blurtman says

Well, they should pass a law then. It is legal to blow someone's head off if they bang on your door from 10PM till 8AM. But what about doorbell ringing?

Obligatory:

lostand confused says

A suburban Detroit man said Monday that he was afraid when someone showed up on his porch before dawn one morning last year and started banging on his doors, but he wasn't going to be a victim in his own home.

Damn, I'd hate to be a Jehovah Witness in Detroit.

The defense had argued that Wafer's actions were in self-defense, saying he was scared after hearing banging on his side and front doors.

I don't like the idea that simply being scared gives someone a free "kill anyone you want" card. By that logic, any paranoid idiot could legally off the entire human race. But I had to kill everyone because any one of them could have been after me.

Dan8267 says

The defense had argued that Wafer's actions were in self-defense, saying he was scared after hearing banging on his side and front doors.

I don't like the idea that simply being scared gives someone a free "kill anyone you want" card. By that logic, any paranoid idiot could legally off the entire human race. But I had to kill everyone because any one of them could have been after me.

You have just paraphrased The Bush Doctrine.

So, this case is basically...

A young woman gets drunk like many young men and women do. She decides to drive -- a stupid move since she's drunk -- and gets into an accident. Luckily, no one is hurt. She realizes her mistake and seeks help, probably to make a phone call, at a nearby house. Like a typical drunk, she clumsily bangs on the door. The paranoid resident takes one look at her and shoots her.

Now had the drunk girl look like either of the two drunk girls below, she would not have been shot.

The moral of the story is that if you are going to seek friendly neighborhood assistance after a night of partying,
1. Be attractive
2. Be female
3. And be white

1 out of 3 doesn't cut it.

Well, if it is the middle of the night and some drunk is banging on your door-blow away. How on earth do you know if there are no other people hiding outisde. No wonder we can't win any wars- we are too civilized and must wait for the law to tell us if it is ok to even protect our own home. In the other case in MN, two burglars came in and then went into the basement and he was convicted-they claimed he lured the burglars by parking his car away from the home. Really?? methinks me might move to Fl or TX if this mindset comes to my current state..

The only reason I was against the Martin thing was the kid was on the street and minding his onw business and this fattie pursued him . But here somebody banging on your door in the middle of the night and you are supposed to do what-sing them a lullaby?

Um, burglars don't knock.

Call the police. Turn on exterior lights. Blast a siren from your stereos. Just don't shoot someone because you think they might be a threat.

If everyone did this, people would constantly be shooting other people dead. And then everyone would rightfully be afraid that if they didn't shoot a stranger on sight the stranger might shoot them. It would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that every stranger is out to kill you because you are a stranger to them and they are afraid you'll kill them, which you totally would because they are strangers. See how that logic goes on forever? Paranoia breeds paranoia. So being scared of other people can't be a justification for preemptively killing them.

The mentality that one must preemptively kill all your neighbors before they have a chance to kill you is exactly what kept us in the Stone Age for 200,000 years. It's time to put down the club and walk into the modern age.

This thread has gone entirely too long without Godwin's law.

That is totally different from someone banging on your door in the middle of the night. That is a threat, not something in your head or paranoia. people bang doors, kick them in, rob you or worse-so when you see someone indulge in such behaviour in the dead of night-well best protect yourself.

Again inside your house, not talking about streets and countries.

If someone gives you the stink eye, you should be able to pop a few caps into them.

Um, a burglar, rapist, or killer isn't going to bang on your door. He's going to break a window as quietly as possible. The last thing someone intending to do you harm is going to do is announce his presence.

And no, banging, a.k.a., knocking loudly, on a person's door is not a threat. It's exactly what one would expect if at 4 a.m.
1. the police needed to get you out of your house for a reason -- gas leak
2. the police were responding to a crime report
3. the fire department was responding to a report of fire
4. any person was seeking emergency help -- my car broke down and my wife's in labor, can you please drive us to the hospital?

If a resident shot any of the above because the resident thought the knocking was "too loud", no jury in the country would acquit.

There is reasonable fear and unreasonable fear. The way to tell the difference is that if we accept unreasonable fear as justification for killing, then we'd all be killing each other on sight.

lostand confused says

This has nothing to with race. Some drunk stranger starts banging on your door in the middle of the night in Detroit-sorry but those are the situations you need a gun for

No. These are the situations in which you need a peep hole and enough horse sense to NOT open your door.

Burglars come in all stripes . Chances are they fall in the dumb end of the spectrum. if they feared getting shot, then there would be less home invasions. All these kinds of verdict does is send a message that people have to open the door, chat with a burglar and determine if he is a burglar/serial killer etc. etc. before shooting. That is just wrong. A few of these and even drunks will be cognizant from doing such stuff.

One of my friends had a similar experience. She is an older single lady in a semi-rural neighborhood. One day she woke up to a loud crash and a few moments later loud banging on her door. Turns out it was a violent kid who had actually stolen a car and crashed. But a few moments later , cops came by and all was well and she had a nice tale to tell. But she sure was glad for her shotgun. What do you expect, calmly call 911 to wait till cops arrive and talk with the kid??

She would have shot if the cops didn't arrive so fast, as they were already on his tail. Those living in their condos and very urban area face a far different reality and the concept of protecting yourself is simply alien.

elliemae says

Obligatory:

so last night me and julie were soaking huh huh

The guy could have picked up his phone and called the police. He could have ignored the continued knocking until the cops arrived.

The way to get the police there faster is to say they have a gun. They would have arrived and shot her themselves.

Problem solved.

elliemae says

The guy could have picked up his phone and called the police. He could have ignored the continued knocking until the cops arrived

It depends, in some areas, it takes 25-30 min for cops to come out. City life is different than out there. Detroit is notorious for long police wait times.

Here a reporter waited with a resident for police to respond to break in call. He waited four hours for police to show up-meanwhile he ordered takeout and had a bubble bath in her tub-while waiting for police.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-29/detroit-homeowners-gun-down-burglars-as-police-await-cars.html

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

Call the police.

You might want to re-think that...

So now the guy is locked up for 20 years with actual violent criminals. Yeah, that's much better.

if you live in chicago, they already are.

Dan8267 says

If everyone did this, people would constantly be shooting other people dead.

he should have stepped 10 feet away from the door, and waited for her to breach the moat.
if she has both feet inside the door, he's found innocent.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/o4U6Kk_pgvE

lostand confused says

Burglars come in all stripes

tru-dat.

burglary in progress u don't have time to find the phone, dial under duress, wait...and then start explaining things as your house is being ripped to shreds. Allocate time for this and you increase the chances you incur personal harm 10fold.

grab your gun
stand 10 feet away from the compromised entry point, inside your house.
fire a warning shot into the ceiling/floor where you are sure no one will be harmed on the other side.
if the fuckers still come all the way inside your house, both feet in, defend yourself. Case Closed.

lostand confused says

elliemae says

The guy could have picked up his phone and called the police. He could have ignored the continued knocking until the cops arrived

It depends, in some areas, it takes 25-30 min for cops to come out. City life is different than out there. Detroit is notorious for long police wait times.

lostand confused says

But here somebody banging on your door in the middle of the night and you are supposed to do what-sing them a lullaby?

Get your weapon ready, take cover, call 911 and put your phone on speaker. Loudly tell whoever is behind the door to fuck off. Then wait. If they break the door down - shoot away.

Seriously, you need to take a basic home defense course.

SoftShell says

fire a warning shot into the ceiling/floor where you are sure no one will be harmed on the other side.

facepalm.jpg

...they flee, police arrives, you are charged with "unlawful discharge of a firearm" and easily convicted. Probably spend a night in jail in process. And say goodbye to your weapon rights, because it's a fucking felony.

Just wait until they break in, then shoot them. Then make sure they have at least a knife in their dead hands. Then it's fine.
Alternatively, stay out of Detroit, Philadelphia, Camden, ... pretty much anywhere ghetto.
It's not the education that's lacking. It's that good morals have been replaced with hood morals and kids aren't interested in irrelevant things like school. I blame the parents. 96% of the time the parents are to blame. The other 4% can be accounted for with sociopathic children.