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A rising tide only lifts rich people's yachts


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2014 Oct 4, 3:15am   25,143 views  83 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/04/income_inequalitys_sick_joke_a_rising_tide_only_lifts_luxury_yachts/

For a long time, the right has argued that we shouldnt worry about inequality because the true concern is the reduction of poverty. Conservatives also maintained that higher levels of inequality were unimportant because a rising tide would lift all boats, and high levels of inequality propelled the economy forward.

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1   Ceffer   2014 Oct 4, 3:49am  

Well, the rich use the poor as flotation devices, so you could say that the tide elevates everybody per se.

2   humanity   2014 Oct 4, 7:57am  

thunderlips11 says

And yet the typical American wage earner is no better off today than in 1980

They are clearly worse off, because of the "rents" you describe. And those rents are mostly going in to the pockets of the 1%.

3   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 8:24am  

humanity says

You're talking about the total pie growing. If you are correct, then that's all the more reason that what the typical person (say median income - for example) should be getting more in exchange for their work, rather than less, than what they got 50 years ago.

That is false. The middle class are way better off today than they were 50 years ago. Just looking at income, even adjusting for inflation is very deceptive. The middle class and the poor have:
Better healthcare, and life span.
Better and safer cars.
Better homes.
Better communication gadgets.
Healthier food if they so choose.
More air travel and vacations.
Access to education.

4   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 8:27am  

humanity says

thunderlips11 says

And yet the typical American wage earner is no better off today than in 1980

They are clearly worse off, because of the "rents" you describe. And those rents are mostly going in to the pockets of the 1%.

That is false too. Rents are exploding in some high demand areas, and still very low in others, like Mid West.

5   Robber Baron Elite Scum   2014 Oct 4, 8:48am  

tovarichpeter says

A rising tide only lifts rich people's yachts

Even mother nature despises you useless slaves and peasants.

DIE ALREADY!

6   Blurtman   2014 Oct 4, 8:57am  

So why does the majority put up with it?

7   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:02am  

Strategist says

That is false too. Rents are exploding in some high demand areas, and still very low in others, like Mid West.

...rustbelt areas where there are no jobs.

8   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:03am  

Blurtman says

So why does the majority put up with it?

Cheap toys?
Calvinism?
Prosperity Gospel?
EST/Self-Help?

Biofeedback Fallacy/Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace?

And nobody knows what to do about it, and there are no other power centers besides Corporatism (no Unions, no Grange of Middling Independent Farmers, less Small Businesses, etc.),

9   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:07am  

Separated in the 80s, GDP growth and Household Income are now officially divorced.

10   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:13am  

Remember that bit about a far, far, far more educated workforce and lots of technology?

"Deserve ain't got nothin' to do with it."

11   Robert Sproul   2014 Oct 4, 9:13am  

Strategist says

The middle class are way better off today than they were 50 years ago.

Better off financially, no doubt.
And yet the polls show zero increase in life satisfaction.
Richer…..no happier.
Progress!

12   Robber Baron Elite Scum   2014 Oct 4, 9:22am  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

If someone refuses to buy a yacht, what the fuck?, they're just an ASSHOLE

Not just an ASSHOLE but an impoverished servant who couldn't buy one even if they wanted too.

13   Blurtman   2014 Oct 4, 9:28am  

thunderlips11 says

Blurtman says

So why does the majority put up with it?

Toys. And nobody knows what to do about it, including myself.

Internet porn. That must be it.

14   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 9:37am  

Robert Sproul says

Strategist says

The middle class are way better off today than they were 50 years ago.

Better off financially, no doubt.

And yet the polls show zero increase in life satisfaction.

Richer…..no happier.

Progress!

The polls showing that is an indication of how needlessly pessimistic we have become. Recent polls could also be a reflection of the great recession we have endured. The poor, the middle class, and the rich, all have a better standard of living than our grand parents.

15   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:38am  

Could be.

I went to watch "Fix: The Ministry Movie" and it was preceded by an ad.

"If you like late 80s/early 90s Heroin Addicted Industrial Rock Pioneer who sucked dick at bus stops to survive, and whose Father Figures were William Burroughs and Timothy Leary, then you'll love the latest version of Tiffany/Hanah Montana named Keiza or Kei$sha or whatever".

Yeah, sure, all knowing Systems Philosophy Biofeedback Self-Correcting Feedback Algo. More Loopy than Loop.

Some other hits included getting pampers ads before watching Set Control for the Heart of the Sun, and Tampax before Catholic School Girls Rule.

I once got that smartTV for my wife. It thought I was a gay nazi because I would record the History channel, while my wife recorded Bridezillas.

"If you loved Secret Weapons of WW2, and My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2, then you'll love Berlin Bathhouse: Twinks with Tanks".

Google thinks I'm a school principal since I just ran some research into Education Software providers for an outreach campaign and was logged into to my gmail account.

Those Machines of Loving Grace are pretty dumb.

16   Blurtman   2014 Oct 4, 9:46am  

Duckduckgo.com

17   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 4, 9:48am  

Blurtman says

Duckduckgo.com

Yep - it's great - though I still use image search on Google. It's default on my browser.

Next thing I'd like is a non-ARM open source laptop.

18   indigenous   2014 Oct 4, 10:03am  

The fact that you give Salon a second thought is indicative of your economic literacy.

What happened to your own Pikketty who was even endorsed by Krugman. Even he said inequality was caused by inflation.

Notice the graph below posted by Thunderlips, the inflection point was 1971

Or this one:

1971 inflation was more possible because of the dollar being taken off of Bretton Woods.

19   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 10:14am  

indigenous says

Interesting graph.
Notice the steady rise all the way to the first oil crisis of 1973. The high inflation and high interest rates that followed kept the male real wages from rising. We see a sizable spurt during Clintons second term when inflation and interest rates fell, and almost every other economic indicator turned positive. After 911 male wages have had a hard time recovering, because so much of our wealth went towards fighting the post 911 wars.
My guess, even with wars, we will see a sharp rise in wages in the next 10 years.

20   indigenous   2014 Oct 4, 10:32am  

Wars and inflation go hand in hand. The reason we went off of Bretton Woods in the first place was LBJ and Vietnam.

Wages are a reflection of productivity, productivity is a reflection of investment in producer goods. That is the problem there has been no investment in producer goods. Assuming the US can become competitive through productivity then the wages will go up.

One of the reasons for loosing the production was because of the Chinese devaluing the Yuan over the past few decades. Now that they have to revalue the Yuan some of that work could potentially come back.

21   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 10:48am  

indigenous says

Wars and inflation go hand in hand. The reason we went off of Bretton Woods in the first place was LBJ and Vietnam.

Wages are a reflection of productivity, productivity is a reflection of investment in producer goods. That is the problem there has been no investment in producer goods. Assuming the US can become competitive through productivity then the wages will go up.

One of the reasons for loosing the production was because of the Chinese devaluing the Yuan over the past few decades. Now that they have to revalue the Yuan some of that work could potentially come back.

One way of reversing our high taste for imports is through state of the art technology, and robotization in our factories to increase our productivity. Ofcourse, the unions will fight you all the way.

22   indigenous   2014 Oct 4, 11:00am  

Strategist says

One way of reversing our high taste for imports is through state of the art technology, and robotization in our factories to increase our productivity. Ofcourse, the unions will fight you all the way.

Actually it is though investment in producer goods. If a guy digs ditches for a living he can increase his production by investing in a tractor.

The values of a culture are very much determined by the money supply controlled by state and through mercantilism. E.G. Parts of China and Germany were known for their lavish spending in the past. Currently that is different because in China when the Yuan's value was lowered the purchasing power was lowered which forced the people into more austere spending.

23   Vicente   2014 Oct 4, 11:13am  

Strategist says

One way of reversing our high taste for imports is through state of the art technology, and robotization in our factories to increase our productivity.

The endgame any way you look at it, is greater unemployment and masses of peasants scrambling for crumbs. And thus we become the Third World countries we set out to take advantage of.

24   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 11:23am  

Vicente says

Strategist says

One way of reversing our high taste for imports is through state of the art technology, and robotization in our factories to increase our productivity.

The endgame any way you look at it, is greater unemployment and masses of peasants scrambling for crumbs. And thus we become the Third World countries we set out to take advantage of.

Trust me, it's a myth. I remember taking a class during my undergraduate years - Economics of Technology and Innovation. One of the first things we learnt was "technology creates more jobs than it loses." If you think about it, if technology did cost us more jobs than it creates, by now we would all be unemployed because the last 100 years has seen 99% of all inventions ever made.

25   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 11:34am  

jazz music says

Damn liberal! (high 5 me bubba!)

he he he. you can kiss my ass.

jazz music says

We have to get the status quo out of office and keep at the government pressuring them to get a healthy fear into our newly elected that if they keep managing self-enrichment from cultivating conflicts of interest--which is essentially all they EVER do--that they will be not only kicked out of office, but their illegitimate gains will be clawed back via prosecution and they might even do time in prison.

You talk too much. Why don't you do something about it, instead of asking everyone else to.
By the way, your long speeches are so boring, you may have the cure for insomnia. Record your speeches and sell it on E-Bay as an insomnia cure. You will rich in no time.

26   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 11:57am  

Call it Crazy says

jazz music says

pologies if I begin to sound like a broken record

At least you recognize that... Now, get back into your cage!

If he gets back in the cage we have to feed him. Let him lose.

27   zzyzzx   2014 Oct 4, 12:34pm  

Strategist says

More toys than ever before are available to the poorest members of our society.

Obligatory:

28   Strategist   2014 Oct 4, 12:47pm  

zzyzzx says

Strategist says

More toys than ever before are available to the poorest members of our society.

Obligatory:

Why does she need a cell phone? It's obvious she aint a hooker.

29   indigenous   2014 Oct 4, 1:32pm  

jazz music says

inanely points all the wrong fingers in effect trolling the world to irritate, disinform and inflame.

Ambiguous and esoteric, spoken like an artist, an economically illiterate artist...

30   Bellingham Bill   2014 Oct 5, 6:30am  

final goods are not the long pole in the tent here. We've just taken our consumer surplus here and applied it to boosting the costs of housing and health care.

There's no reason the same damn house my parents rented in Salinas CA for $400/mo in the late 70s rents for 5X -- TWICE the rise of what "inflation" says it should be -- that now, other than that's what the housing market has been constructed to yield, through accumulated effects of policy, essentially not building enough housing to oversupply the local market with quality options.

A market not in oversupply is where the rents live!

But if you read about housing in the paper, they refer to a rising cost of living in housing as a "recovering" market!

Housing recovery hitting speed bumps in Fresno, statewide
BY BONHIA LEE
The Fresno BeeS eptember 19, 2014
FacebookTwitterGoogle PlusRedditE-mailPrint

LESLIE APPLETON-YOUNG
Leslie Appleton-Young is vice president and chief economist for the California Association of Realtors.
HDO

A couple years of fast-rising home prices and sales in Fresno and other California cities is showing signs of slowing down and hitting a plateau in 2015, a real estate economist said Friday.

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/09/19/4134072_housing-recovery-hitting-speed.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

31   Bellingham Bill   2014 Oct 5, 6:32am  

jazz music says

Of course they pay bloggers and armies of trolls too.

I wonder about that. Financially, the pay off for poisoning the discourse is pretty good, but people are so fucked up now they'll catapult the propaganda on their own time I guess.

32   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 5, 6:47am  

Vicente says

The endgame any way you look at it, is greater unemployment and masses of peasants scrambling for crumbs. And thus we become the Third World countries we set out to take advantage of.

Absolutely. The BRICs and others are gaining power, and they're too large and organized with their own interests to be easily coup'd or annexed or bribed into compliance like in the 19th or 20th Century.

A desperate exploiter turns on his own kind.

33   MisdemeanorRebel   2014 Oct 5, 6:49am  

zzyzzx says

Strategist says

More toys than ever before are available to the poorest members of our society.

Obligatory:

One trip to the doctor for a bad case of the gout is a lot more than $20.

34   Strategist   2014 Oct 5, 6:52am  

Bellingham Bill says

jazz music says

Of course they pay bloggers and armies of trolls too.

I wonder about that. Financially, the pay off for poisoning the discourse is pretty good, but people are so fucked up now they'll catapult the propaganda on their own time I guess.

Can you guys put in a good word for me? I'm looking for a raise this Xmas.
My fellow colleagues on Patnet too. Appreciate it, thanks. :)

35   Strategist   2014 Oct 5, 6:53am  

thunderlips11 says

One trip to the doctor for a bad case of the gout is a lot more than $20.

Don't think she will be the one paying.

36   Vicente   2014 Oct 5, 7:32am  

Strategist says

Trust me, it's a myth. I remember taking a class during my undergraduate years - Economics of Technology and Innovation. One of the first things we learnt was "technology creates more jobs than it loses." If you think about it, if technology did cost us more jobs than it creates, by now we would all be unemployed because the last 100 years has seen 99% of all inventions ever made.

Ah and who taught you that?

People who are invested in that being true.

Look it's very simple.

You eventually automate everything from farms to factories to fast food. Production through the roof, labor costs nearly zero. Robots build the robots.

What's left?

A few technology jobs, only for highly skilled, designing new robots to build the robots. And a huge mass of service jobs for cleaning each other's toilets and marketing each other shit we don't need.

There's a limit to how much anyone can "consume". I only have so many hours in the day in which to sit with eyes glued to Home Shopping Network and be surrounded by all my STUFF, piled to the ceiling. Great you've got a factory that can finally turn out 10 billion F-150's in 30 minutes for $1,000 each. Well I only need one, but I've got no job so I can't buy even the one.

Technologists of your era live in a bubble, look only at the past and don't see what the endgame is. Under unregulated capitalism, technology is for enriching capitalists. Since 2000 all technology advances have only made Richie Rich richer, not anyone else.

37   Strategist   2014 Oct 5, 8:27am  

Vicente says

Strategist says

Trust me, it's a myth. I remember taking a class during my undergraduate years - Economics of Technology and Innovation. One of the first things we learnt was "technology creates more jobs than it loses." If you think about it, if technology did cost us more jobs than it creates, by now we would all be unemployed because the last 100 years has seen 99% of all inventions ever made.

Ah and who taught you that?

People who are invested in that being true.

These principles have been around for a long time. Most Professors and Economists being extremely liberal with no stake in the matter, would immediately dispel these theories and principles. Don't forget, we would have more unemployment than lets say Bangladesh, if technology cost us jobs.

38   indigenous   2014 Oct 5, 8:28am  

Vicente says

Ah and who taught you that?

90%+ were farmers 100 years ago, today there are what 2%.

39   Strategist   2014 Oct 5, 8:33am  

indigenous says

Vicente says

Ah and who taught you that?

90%+ were farmers 100 years ago, today there are what 2%.

Most occupation today never existed 100 years ago.
No NASA, no planes, no pharmaceuticals, no travel, no computers, no iphone 6.
All we had was farming. Do you know why schools have long summer breaks? So the children could go work on the farms during harvest time. Today they go on vacations, summer camps and play video games.

40   Bellingham Bill   2014 Oct 5, 8:37am  

"by now we would all be unemployed because the last 100 years has seen 99% of all inventions ever made."

real per-capita (age 15-54) government spending.

gov't is spending $26,000 per person now, twice what it was not too long ago.

Back that out, cut it down to what the GOP says it wants -- "drown in a bathtub" -- and you'll get a truer picture of how unbalanced our economy really is now.

the issue is not one of productivity, it is one of distribution, and the issuance of a colossal sea of debt to keep the system going.

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