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Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 1:14am
Where did THAT come from??
Start asking for double your salary.
One of two things are bound to happen.
1)Your income will come in line with the cost of living
2)It will send the rent seekers back into the sewers making money in less obvious ways behind the scenes. Instead of right out in the open in front of our faces, with impunity. As they boast larger profits, we're all getting pink slips and taking pay cuts.
HydroCabron
2014 Oct 11, 1:22am
No dice: the owners succeeded because they worked harder. If they have to raise wages, they'll pass the costs onto the comsumer.
This smacks of collective action, which is union, and I hate unions. Only owners of capital should be allowed to collude.
Unhappy with your wages? Then start your own hedge fund or multinational.
tatupu70
2014 Oct 11, 1:26am
BenghazebolaHusseinCabronObama says
Unhappy with your wages? Then start your own hedge fund or multinational.
Or work harder.
Shaman
2014 Oct 11, 1:44am
Color me shocked! First the Cap'n realized the obvious: that corporate America has been in collusion with government to screw us and they are winning while we lose. Then the usual suspects were like, "duh!" And CiC sadly missed some irony. What a morning!
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:04am
BenghazebolaHusseinCabronObama says
If they have to raise wages, they'll pass the costs onto the comsumer.
I used to think that, but they are already passing costs onto the consumer, where no extra costs already exists. So the next logical step is a standard of living increase across the board.
After that we can start fighting collusion and price fixing, when the goal post moves again. But one thing for sure. We'll never get these greedy bastards to turn back the cost of living clock to where it was in 2005 and earlier.
Here's the problem as I see it, very simply summarized in this quip.
"We're paying 2050 prices on 1986 income. "
Never in history has this happened. Price pressures have always coincided with supply and demand. Today, price pressures telegraph profit demands.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:07am
Wait.... This is where you normally cry inequality... you want someone to actually work "harder" to make more???
These Liberals are so full of shit, they've got 5 assholes to talk out of.
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 2:10am
What is the deal with grocery prices, they say there is no inflation at the grocery store (leaving out early this year because of the hard winter). But bacon is now 5-6 bucks a pound it doesn't seem like that long ago it was half that.
CL
2014 Oct 11, 2:17am
The rightwing cries that the minimum wage increases not just the bottom, but a whole slew of wages. If you pay a McD worker $20, the Pizza manager who made the same would demand $40, and so on.
In other words, the GOP fights minimum wage increases BECAUSE they cause wage inflation.
Of course, they say "the consumer will pay at the checkout!", but the consumer contains more than low-wage workers, and we can shop around when a store finds a miraculous way to compete. And they have room to cut prices, since profits are at record highs.
Welcome to liberalism, Cap'n!
CL
2014 Oct 11, 2:18am
What is the deal with grocery prices, they say there is no inflation at the grocery store (leaving out early this year because of the hard winter). But bacon is now 5-6 bucks a pound it doesn't seem like that long ago it was half that.
Pigs had diarrhea. California has drought.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:18am
Tell me about it, and I could have put that $25.00 london broil in my cart yesterday. It was crazy expensive, but it wouldn't have put me in the poor house. But I refused to do it. Because the last time I bought a piece of London broil like that it was one of the cheapest cuts of meat in the meat case.
So me, just like everyone else in the store was just haplessly meandering around the store with an empty cart, hoping to find just one single item that didn't inflate in course of just one week.
Last week I bought 2 dozen brown eggs for a about $4.00. Yesterday for no reason explained each dozen was $3.50.
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 2:21am
Pigs had diarrhea. California has drought.
Don't they have pig kaopectate? But bacon seems to be the only one that went up?
What about the rest of the prices, higher/lower?
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:22am
Oh I see.
Demand that the Blacks and Poor latinos should get $15 an hour or more for doing menial tasks. NOT because it's the right thing to do. BUT because it gives the Right mental wedigies.
With advocates like you guys who needs slave masters?
FNWGMOBDVZXDNW
2014 Oct 11, 2:25am
The reason that prices are up relative to wages is that people have been willing to spend more than they have. Prices depend on demand and that depends on spending. Wages depend on many things and global competition has made it difficult to keep wages up.
Culturally, people were less interested in living on credit in the past. Part of this is due to lower interest rates today that make borrowing more attractive. At this point, though, a lot of it in my opinion has become ingrained into the cultural mindset. Our willingness to live on credit as a group is why the average person needs to live on credit in order to keep up appearances or have what their buddy has.
The only real way for the average Jane/Joe to force the issue is to refuse buying luxuries and depreciating assets on credit. They have to smarten up to the long term consequences of their decisions and have a realistic idea of what will improve their happiness long term.
I'm a liberal, but don't think that the minimum wage will get at the root of the problem.
To bring this back to housing, people have to come to a realistic view of what they can afford. If they can't comfortably make the rent, they need to take on house mates. When people buy what they can afford, their rent will match their pay-checks.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:34am
FDR was a decent guy who asked for the help of highly capable City leaders in the country.From those who managed to pull their cities out a nosedive and turned their local economies around. The New deal policies that FDR got from New York civic and economic leaders.
Some of the polices were past due and long needed. The biggest blight on the New Deal was the Standard wages policy where everyone had to make the same thing. It was directly responsible for the assfucking that Employment is today. As the "Benefit Package" and "Employer Sponsored healthcare" came out of that. The only way companies could compete for talent was by offering other perks. By the time the standard pay was repealed, the benefits con job was already part of the employment process.
Your potential earnings are obscured by so called Perks, that you as an employee end up paying for tenfold now.
There is no such thing as free medical for employees, and if you got a family it's even worse.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:39am
The only real way for the average Jane/Joe to force the issue is to refuse buying luxuries and depreciating assets on credit.
FOOD, a Roof, and Health is NOT a Luxury!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 2:50am
FDR was a decent guy
BULLSHIT, he was an absolute asshole.
Off the top of my head:
He confiscated gold and paid the owners $20 per oz, then raised the price to $35 per oz. IOW he stole 50% of the wealth of anyone who owned gold, in gold.
He outlawed scrip, which was what banks did when there was a run on the bank, this caused 33% of the banks to fail, which got the depression going big time.
He controlled prices which were counter to the market, like you mention with wages. This caused higher unemployment. He also controlled prices with food and literally destroyed many farm products in order to maintain the prices. This while many were literally starving.
He provoked Japan into going to war with the US.
And more.
People think he was great because he "brought us out of the depression", in actual fact he caused it. Recessions don't last long unless they are caused to continue as the one we are experiencing now.
HydroCabron
2014 Oct 11, 2:54am
Man, when Captain writes something like this, I wonder if I ned to start seeing a therapist, or if there's a revolution coming.
(The number of abuses of the English language is suspiciously low; has the account been hacked?)
Yep: over a decade of record corporate profits, while they lecture us on how any boost in wages will surely destroy the planet.
I suspect the revolution will come when people recognize that they can no longer afford a car. That will shatter the last illusion of autonomy.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 2:56am
Well I can't argue with that, but the New Deal did do a lot to help grow the middle class. And was what gave America the highest standard of living of the poorest people in our country. Compared to the even the most marginally poor of other countries.
Recent deregulation of Policies that were either the direct result of the New Deal or created to repair bad policies of the New Deal. The New deal for what it was, did it's time and was a thing of the past. America from 1945 up through 2000's was a working model.
Any damages done since then has been the doing of the current lot of no good sons of bitches.
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 2:56am
BenghazebolaHusseinCabronObama says
Man, when Captain writes something like this, I wonder if I ned to start seeing a therapist, or if there's a revolution coming.
Let me help, you do not need to wonder.
justme
2014 Oct 11, 2:59am
Or work harder.
Wait.... This is where you normally cry inequality... you want someone to actually work "harder" to make more???
Crazy, I think your sarcasm detector is broken again. Lots of sarcasm in this thread.
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 3:04am
Well I can't argue with that, but the New Deal did do a lot to help grow the middle class.
I don't see any evidence of that.
Don't feel bad the entire country was duped by this guy. I think he had help from Edward Bernays type people.
The thing about recessions is they don't last long UNLESS they are CAUSED to last longer.
The main thing that caused the US to do better was manufacturing for foreign war goods in about 1937.
justme
2014 Oct 11, 3:04am
People think he was great because he "brought us out of the depression", in actual fact he caused it.
Let me see, FDR was elected in 1932 and you think he CAUSED the depression that started in 1929?
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 3:06am
Let me see, FDR was elected in 1932 and you think he CAUSED the depression that started in 1929?
Hoover got it started (things like the Smoot Hawley Act), in fact many of the policies that FDR implemented were a continuation of Hoover's.
The stuff I indicated above were what FDR did.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 3:41am
Your mistake is to think that your party is better than the other. Both parties don't give two craps about you captain. It wasn't just the Dems that let TARP happen it was both parties.
That's been the biggest problem with this board. Just because I'm riling against Obama, then I must be for the other guys. And that is not the truth.
The Florida Governors race is between two ex-Republican Governors.
And that scares the shit out of me. Rick Scott has already done enough to screw this state, and much of what Charlie Christ did to screw this state, Scott used as a framework to do further damage. He didn't undo, fix, or just make things better or easier in this State. He just contributed to its further destruction.
But all of this who started what crap is not what this thread is about.
It's about everyone should be demanding a raise, just like that Wells Fargo employee did the other day. We all should NOT be sitting on our Asses just letting the LIberals narrate the issue to frame their political exploits.
"Oh you poor things, your wretches who work grueling 17 hour long weeks. They need $15.00 an hour, and more food stamps, inequality and all that. Now be sure to vote for hope and change."
The last time we left change up to them, this is the Ass fucking we got.
We all need to be stepping up to this argument.
This is not just a Shanaynay, and Rosa issue. It's a every damn body issue.
It's not a 1% issue vs the 99% issues. We're doing it to our selves.
We're letting companies squeeze profits and letting their price cuts telegraph out to us, to where we are affected by them. We tolerate it for two reasons. Cheap crap, and elusive 401K profits.
My guess if we do ask for more money, we'll end up getting our moneys worth in the goods we buy. Because better quality will be expected out of everyone. Profits wont be as great, so companies will start pulling back and becoming private endeavors again. And not a mob rule investors mentality. Where whole industries are made and destroyed on the whims of investors.
Banks will have to start making money the old fashioned way, by charging and paying interest.
And the only remedy for out of control inflation is just out of control wages.
Percentages will always be percentages. And right now, we're giving too much back to the corporations.
YES, FUCK YES especially Warren Buffets corporations, and even Starbucks, all of them. Not the fictitious invisible 1%. WE ARE THE 1%.
You better start getting vocal NOW, or you're just going be allowing the Right and Left do your thinking for you. And for now they want your money, not just the part timers, minimum wage earners money. Everyones money, they are fucking with all of our money. Shit they are counting that shit, and considering it when they give reports and pay the bills.
YES, FUCK YES especially Warren Buffets corporations
Yep, esp. esp. Buffet's corporations
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 4:17am
I would also say as with Darlag's post about the cost of a shipping container. Which is a manifestation of a huge over capacity in China. I read somewhere that China produced more cement in 2011-2012 than the US in the entire 20th century.
Point is the Fed is trying to push the economy with a rope.
FNWGMOBDVZXDNW
2014 Oct 11, 7:43am
FOOD, a Roof, and Health is NOT a Luxury!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People eat out more, eat more pre-packaged food, live in larger houses with more stuff, and consume more health care than at any previous time.
Eating at restaurants and eating convenience foods is a luxury. Living in a big house with a bathroom per person is a luxury. I'm all for a single payer health care system, so I'm with you there.
My point is that people tend to spend way beyond their means these days, because money is cheap and everybody else is doing it. They can ask for a raise and try to make more money, but the one thing that is in their immediate control is what they spend.
You can look back at the 1950s and assume everything was better back then, but meanwhile people are spending money on all sorts of things that just weren't available back then.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 7:55am
You just described why Tilapia is over $6.99 a lb, instead of the $1.99 lb what it was intended for.
You described why Chicken wings are the new Prime Rib, when it used to be meat that was added to making stock.
People aren't spending more on food, they are being forced to spend more for the food they get. Stop it.
FortWayne
2014 Oct 11, 8:07am
We need Wage inflation not voting on Minimum wage to be a certain figure.
We need across the board wage inflation.
I'd vote for that with my pocketbook.
But business knows how to reduce wages, it's easy. And I don't think wage inflation will occur any time soon, not with liberals only pushing for minimum wage. Big business knows that all they need to do is Just offshore, or train cheap labor. They haven't been able yet to reduce wages of professionals, because their work isn't something they can train day laborer in a week for. But who knows what the future holds.
Tenpoundbass
2014 Oct 11, 8:45am
Well then for every job outsourcing loses, we need to up the Tariffs to cover that lost from our economy. Lose a $25K job, tariffs across the board raise accordingly. Lose 2 $25K jobs, and it starts getting expensive, for those companies to import that cheap labor crap back into the states. The extra tariffs should go to funding, training and grants for small business how wish to create onshore jobs.
Or the investors can stop squeezing everyone else, and just be satisfied with enough profits instead of all of the profits.
Progressive protectionism is coming whether the Lefties and Commies and the Rightwing pig tanks like it or not.
indigenous
2014 Oct 11, 9:40am
e need to up the Tariffs to cover that lost from our economy.
Tariffs are not a good idea cuz they reciprocate.
Times are a changing as the article on China's labor force striking indicates. China has to stimulate their domestic markets or they are toast.
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Oct 11, 10:20am
What's wrong with the Capt'n, he's not an unhinged neoliberal who thinks low wages, unemployment, and free-trade-at-any-hazard are "Positive Goods"
Vicente
2014 Oct 11, 10:20am
Prices aren't going to go down, it's time everyone in America walks off their job to send a message. Not just McDonald's workers, but everyone.
I'd love to see minimum wage workers go on strike, and demand tariffs return and jobs be protected.
However the very people who need it worst, are the most thoroughly programmed. The 1% have so firmly entrenched the notion that collective action like strikes is COMMUNISM, that you have a steep uphill slog convincing anyone to join you. They don't need Pinkertons anymore to break pesky union skulls, they just brainwashed the people who need them to reject them.
See the Corporations forming all kinds of collectives like Chamber of Commerce etc. that is perfectly OK for them to have instruments to affect policy that affects workers.
Perhaps if I it were cast as being like gun control it'd make more sense to Southerners. ConglomCo want's all the machine guns in their armory, they don't want you to even have a slingshot.
FortWayne
2014 Oct 11, 10:37am
Well then for every job outsourcing loses, we need to up the Tariffs to cover that lost from our economy. Lose a $25K job, tariffs across the board raise accordingly
I like that idea. I thought of that a while ago, many folks have. It won't happen as long as wall street and profit margins are what controls the pay and jobs. My feeling is that "we the people" have very little say in this matter.
rooemoore
2014 Oct 11, 10:42am
The day when the tea party and occupy wall street realize they are two sides of the same coin, shit is gonna happen. It appears that day is not too far away.
Culturally, people were less interested in living on credit in the past. Part of this is due to lower interest rates today that make borrowing more attractive
That's the core part of the problem. The cheap credit can push down the wage increase and keep the consumption party going. In fact, this is true in a big way in all western countries except Germany.
If raising minimum wage solves the debt problem, the Denmark would have the least amount the household debt. The opposite is true. Denmark has the highest minimum wage as well as the largest household debt in the world. Around 57% of the mortgages there are interest-only.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5c0a5a76-d202-11e3-8ff4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3FtAPfjDG
zzyzzx
2014 Oct 11, 11:14am
There's no particular group that deserves more money while everyone else doesn't.
That's where the liberals will disagree with you.
Vicente
2014 Oct 11, 11:24am
That's the core part of the problem. The cheap credit can push down the wage increase and keep the consumption party going. In fact, this is true in a big way in all western countries except Germany.
People act like CITIZENS (never say consumers) are degenerates and the one who started the debt party. I disagree. The FIRE industry needed this debt orgy to keep their profits marching higher. So they cooked up ways to sell it to the public. Exactly like DeBeers and "a diamond is forever" they've seduced us all with the idea that a credit score is how you measure your status as a citizen. I remember in the 80's how all the credit card companies were outside our student center trying to sign kids up for cards. They were perfectly willing to "help" the marginal, oh you are a foreigner just claim your BF/GF is your "cousin" that we can list on the form>
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Yesterday as I was grocery shopping, I was wandering around the grocery store looking for items that didn't price shock me.
I guess grocers play the stock market too. So when the Dow loses a few hundred points, guess what, everything in store is about 20% more than they were your last grocery trip a few days ago.
Then as was muttering "I'll be so glad when this fucking maniac is out of office and prices resume back to normal..."
It was then that I had a revelation. The prices aren't going to go back to normal this is it. Profits are the biggest for companies ever in the history of American commerce for one very simple reason. Our Federal economic policy has been very complacent about the plight of those that are hurt the most by their policies or lack there of. One that is a policy of watch, collude and participate in corporate price collusion, fixing and gouging on every single item from energy to food. The cheap iPhones and other cheap toys are only a distraction to keep you from realizing everything in your life is turning into a big ticket expense item. It used to be, everyone could trim down the big ticket expenses in their lives, to just one. "Rent" that was it. That was the single most biggest expense in anyone's life.
Now it can be the third, and just one of many. Everything in life is turning into a big ticket item, but of course our distracting toys, that comes with hidden contract commitments, so they'll still get their big money out of you, in the long run.
We need wage inflation to match non official living inflation that the FED claims. They want an economy where everything is inflated while wages contract.
I am now starting to realize that I have been looking at this wrong.
It is time for $20.00 minimum wage. And your average middle class blue collar jobs should be around $120K a year.
Professionals should start at $250K or even more.
Then an only then would the standard of living be back to anywhere like it was in 1999.
We need Wage inflation not voting on Minimum wage to be a certain figure.
We need across the board wage inflation.
There's no particular group that deserves more money while everyone else doesn't.
The unofficial policy of ignoring inflation doesn't just affect the poor, it affects everyone.
Prices aren't going to go down, it's time everyone in America walks off their job to send a message. Not just McDonald's workers, but everyone.