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Freedom to Offend

By Patrick follow Patrick   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 528,937 views   548 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Patrick.net is an anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is exactly and nothing other than the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.


The least popular ideas are the censor's wedge.

I especially want people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

The goal is for patrick.net to be a place where anyone can amicably discuss anything with others, anonymously, without being subject to the PC police who have effectively eliminated free speech in the United States and many other countries. Deliberate offense is contrary to this goal. Please don't deliberately insult anyone. It may make you feel evil-good for a moment, but it is counterproductive.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is no problem. Enjoy your freedom on this site, but please try to keep it about ideas and not about the other users or the site itself. I love Texas Congressman Dan Crenshaw's philosophy about political debate:

https://patrick.net/post/1326765/2019-08-23-perfect-description-of-how-public-debate-should-be

There are many ideas that we will never agree on. The left and the right have different ways of approaching governance, based on contrasting philosophies. But many of the ultimate goals — economic prosperity, better health care and education, etc. — are the same. We just don’t share the same vision of how to achieve them.

How, then, do we live together in this world of differing ideas? For starters, let’s agree that the ideas are fair game. If you think my idea is awful, you should say as much. But there is a difference between attacking an idea and attacking the person behind that idea. Labeling someone as an “-ist” who believes in an “-ism” because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun.

Similarly, people too often attack not just an idea but also the supposed intent behind an idea. That raises the emotional level of the debate and might seem like it strengthens the attacker’s side, but it’s a terrible way to make a point. Assuming the worst about your opponents’ intentions has the effect of demonizing their ideas, removing the need for sound counter-reasoning and fact-based argument. That’s not a good environment for the exchange of ideas.


The primary moderation rule is to not attack other users or the site itself. Personal attacks solve nothing, and in fact get us further away from solving anything. Examine what is said, not who speaks, and try to acknowledge whatever truth there is in what the other person is saying before attacking the flaws in their argument.

If you don't like this site, go somewhere else. This site cost you nothing, was a lot of work for me, and doesn't even have advertising. If you can't resist insulting the other users or the site itself over and over, you'll be banned and your comments deleted.

To repeat, here are the rules:

1. Do not insult the other users.
2. Do not insult the site.

Flag personal attacks and attacks on the site with the "flag" link by each comment so that they will go into moderation where they will be reviewed by a moderator. Please do not flag comments just because you don't like them.

If you're wondering why your comment was flagged, please click the "edit" link on it. It should be pretty obvious when you read your own words again. If you think there was a mistake about the content's being flagged, please write p@patrick.net

If you don't have the "flag" link, please report personal comments to p@patrick.net by email.


Here are the original articles that made this site famous:

https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing

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To get another user's attention, mention him in a comment with an @ character prepended to his username ( for example @Patrick ) and then he will get an email of that comment.

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« First    « Previous    Comments 509 - 548 of 548    Last »

509   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 2:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Deleting DoofusRicky for insulting the site over and over instead of debating issues with good will like almost everyone else here.

Sick of it.


I had him on ignore. But I could see you and Wookie and others quoting him in your responses. It was hilarious.

Hilarious how? He was just FUCKING TROLLING YOU and you kept responding to him like he was engaging seriously. Yes, I know it doesn't look that way at first and thus you kinda get rope-a-doped in. Happens to me all the time as I am sure you have observed. But I compensated for that....and concluded that you still fell into that trap in the end.

I would just suggest that instead of wasting valuable time and cloud resources like that, you considering using the NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW! button earlier and more often. Try it for a month and see how it works. :)

NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
NUKE THIS FUCKER NOW!
510   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 1, 2:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

OccasionalCortex says
Hilarious how? He was just FUCKING TROLLING YOU and you kept responding to him like he was engaging seriously.

Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.
511   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 1, 3:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.


Ummm...every word you just wrote after 'Disagree' SUPPORTS my entire contention, actually.
512   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 1, 3:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

OccasionalCortex says
WookieMan says
Disagree. I'm almost positive it was an old user changing his writing style. Not that it's still not trolling I suppose, but there was another motive, likely childish. If there was a way to prove it, I'd bet good money on who it was, but I don't think that's possible.

I also shouldn't be talking about other users. Needless to say the whole "meetup" topic was a dead give away. He wanted the attention like he always has.


Ummm...every word you just wrote after 'Disagree' SUPPORTS my entire contention, actually.

True. I just wouldn't categorize it in the typical trolling category though. It's specific to this specific site. This exact type of trolling doesn't work on another site. Hard to classify it really. Surprised he's come back at all.
513   jazz_music   ignore (15)   2019 Nov 1, 4:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Onvacation says
Just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
No, you are heckling commenters who say things outside the alt right bubble. —not in any way related to government and whether or not it is idiotic.

As if you speak for the real world. You don’t. Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts, (lies) fantasies and conspiracies.

And that is virtue signaling to your brotherhood, all victims of the poor, the immigrants, the races and women. You sandbag personal comments using “we” to feign authority.

All marching to make the rich richer come what may.
514   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostakovitch   ignore (52)   2019 Nov 1, 4:17pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

CUNTS!

YOUR!

FUCKING! GOD! IS!

SUCH! A! BIG! FAT! EFFEMINATE! SNOWFLAKE! WHO IS! SO FUCKING ASSTUCKISH, THAT HIS PARENTS LOCKED HIM AWAY IN A MILITARY SCHOOL TO BEAT THE HOMO OUT OF HIM!

THEY! HAVE! TO! ASK! FOR! THEIR! MONEY! BACK!

YOU! STUPID! CUNTS!
515   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 1, 5:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
Onvacation says
Just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
No, you are heckling commenters who say things outside the alt right bubble. —not in any way related to government and whether or not it is idiotic.

As if you speak for the real world. You don’t. Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts, (lies) fantasies and conspiracies.

And that is virtue signaling to your brotherhood, all victims of the poor, the immigrants, the races and women. You sandbag personal comments using “we” to feign authority.

All marching to make the rich richer come what may.

No, just mocking idiocracy when I see it.
516   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 1, 5:10pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
Too many of you men are taken by right wing populist alternative facts

How dare you assume my gender. Next you will accuse me of having white privilege!

Anyone that wants to work can be successful in America. Even if you don't want to work the government will give you a cell phone and enough food to make you obese.

Idiocracy.
518   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 22, 7:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

There are backups every night at 3am California time. If it was from today after the backup then it's really gone.

From the date in the url it looks like it was from today. Sorry about that.

Maybe I should make deletions work differently.
519   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 22, 11:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dammit @Patrick, I did it again with the Trans Thread I had on Chicago PS 211. Maybe I gotta reposition my mouse and keyboard.
520   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 23, 12:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Ah, it really is a bug! Thanks for bringing my attention to it.

There should be a popup confirmation that you really want to delete. I will fix that.
522   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 30, 6:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@NoCoupForYou

OK, if you hold down the shift key and reload, the new javascript should give you a popup confirmation before you delete a post.

Let me know if it doesn't work. Sorry for the delay.
523   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Dec 3, 11:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Patrick another minor bug is that if you are reading a thread and a comment from an ignored person comes in then you will see that comment added by the dynamic refresh.
524   VINCENT   ignore (0)   2019 Dec 9, 9:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Any reason why I am not allowed to post new comments anymore?
526   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2020 Jan 21, 1:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Patrick

Pics in PatNet posts aren't viewable for non-members, it seems.

Example: https://patrick.net/post/1329826/2020-01-21-elon-musk-wants-to-send-you-to-mars-to-die

Buddy of mine can not see the pics. Nor can I see them in emails that include articles that people like, respond to, etc.
527   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Jan 21, 7:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@OccasionalCortex yes, this is true. You must be logged in to see any pictures.

This is because I was threatened by a copyright-troll lawyer, so I really can't make them visible anymore, at least not yet.

I do need to fix the emails so that actual users can see them though. I will work on that.
528   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2020 Feb 5, 8:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I'm sure I've brought this up before, but can't remember the discussion. If someone ignores me, why do I still see their comments? I'm fine seeing them as I'm not that petty, but sometimes I waste time replying to something that I don't know if the user has me on ignore or not, and therefore won't see my comment unless quoted by another user not on their ignore list.

I know it creates infighting and makes it about the users, but I think it would be nice to know who's ignoring you so you don't waste time responding to their comments. OR if someone ignores you, you no longer see their comments or posts at all. Basically they erase themselves from you outside of being quoted by another user.

I have a rough idea of who has me on ignore, but I really am not certain. Either I have really good points they're too afraid to rebuke or they have me on ignore.

@Patrick - Another quick suggestion. Could be stupid, but I think it's brilliant if you truly want to live by the "freedom to offend" mantra. Make it so you cannot ignore a user until they've marked a comment personal from the person they want to ignore and a moderator agrees it was personally directed (moderators cannot decide on their own flagged posts/comments).

The ignore function makes sense if someone is being personal towards another user. But if you are simply ignoring people because you don't agree with their thoughts, isn't that the opposite of freedom to offend? I've got 5 ignores, of which probably 3-4 are simply because someone doesn't like my point of view. I've made personal comments to maybe 2 people on this site that were actual users at one time or another. And those we generally in response to personal comments made towards me.

Basically I kind of dislike the blanket ignore policy with no justifiable reasoning. Feel like there needs to be a reason that you ignore someone, not just feelings or disagreement during a cordial argument. As long as people aren't attacking each other, there's no reason not to hear another persons point of view. There are other bubbles people can go to on the web and get their confirmation bias.
529   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Feb 5, 8:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Thanks @WookieMan

What do you think of my simply eliminating the ignore function? It's kind of a pain to get right technically, and if people are not being personal, you're right that there's no reason not to hear from them.
530   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 5, 8:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

What do you think of my simply eliminating the ignore function?

Or at least be able to see who has you on ignore. No point in wasting time responding to a post from someone who has you on ignore.
531   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2020 Feb 5, 8:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HeadSet says
What do you think of my simply eliminating the ignore function?

Or at least be able to see who has you on ignore. No point in wasting time responding to a post from someone who has you on ignore.

This was probably 1A of my comment. I make replies and get no response. I assume I'm on ignore I suppose, but have no idea. I enjoy my time here, but making a comment to someone that can't see it, is kind of a waste of time for sure.

1B is the fact that I've not directly attacked in a personal manner any user here except maybe 2 in all honesty. Yet I have 5 ignores (which is fine, I'm not butthurt over it). I just feel like the ignore function creates a bubble for the person clicking ignore. If you don't like what I'm saying, tell me why I'm wrong. It won't hurt my feelings.

Sorry, the Nancy rip is bothering me. I actually think most poster/commenters here have something to offer. We're not always going to agree, but I feel like ignoring someone (ripping up a speech) is the equivalent of the ignore function. We're all wrong or right on many things. Having a tantrum and running from an opinion or fact is stupid though. Sorry.
532   Fortwaynemobile   ignore (3)   2020 Feb 5, 9:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I think it works fine today and needs no changes.
533   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 5, 9:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says

What do you think of my simply eliminating the ignore function? It's kind of a pain to get right technically, and if people are not being personal, you're right that there's no reason not to hear from them.

You don't need a function to ignore people.

In general it seems to be the willfully ignorant who use the ignore button. Case in point, someone has ignored Patrick.
534   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 5, 10:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Thanks @WookieMan

What do you think of my simply eliminating the ignore function? It's kind of a pain to get right technically, and if people are not being personal, you're right that there's no reason not to hear from them.


Open up the pain gates!
535   Onvacation   ignore (6)   2020 Feb 6, 5:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HEYYOU says
The egotistical,simply minded,brainwashed can't respond to anything in any way that could be called facts.
They particularly resent the truth. Name calling is fun when it's the truth.

A favor? One of those that have few "ignores" pass the above to the rest of patnet.

It's just as easy to scan over as ignore. Heyyou has had some something worth listening to at least three times!
536   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 11, 1:38pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yo @Patrick! What jives with this? I get 404.

https://patrick.net/post/1330716/2020-03-11-more-winning-scotus-backs-remain-in-mexico

Happened right after I posted it.
537   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 11, 1:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Woah, no idea.

Will look into it.

Thanks
539   PMack   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 11, 2:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

There is a war on our Minds.
540   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 11, 2:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Woah, no idea.

Will look into it.

Thanks


Dunno.

541   covid_shmovid   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 11, 2:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

OccasionalCortex says
Patrick says
Woah, no idea.

Will look into it.

Thanks


Dunno.



Same here.
542   RC2006   ignore (2)   2020 Mar 11, 3:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I thought it was just me, wanted to read.
543   NoCoupForYou   ignore (4)   2020 Mar 11, 3:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Yeah, had trouble with that post - Really Good News, wanted to read.
544   VINCENT   ignore (0)   2020 Mar 11, 10:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Bombs for me as well.
545   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Mar 12, 12:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Haven't figured it out yet. So damn strange.

If you chop off or add one character to the url, it works:

https://patrick.net/post/1330716/2020-03-11-more-winning-scotus-backs-remain-in-mexic

but everything except for https://patrick.net/post/1330716/ should be ignored by the server. The date + title is really just a kind of comment.
546   OccasionalCortex   ignore (5)   2020 Mar 12, 1:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Patrick says
Haven't figured it out yet. So damn strange.


Here's another thing: Peeps are liking even though they can't open it. So, I get the email about the like. And the email displays the post in it.
547   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2020 Apr 11, 10:49am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

You say Hyper Bowl, I say Hi Pearl Bailey
I guess we can't get along.
548   Patrick   ignore (1)   2020 Apr 11, 11:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Lol, where does that come from?

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