patrick.net

is the % over contribution of FICA receipts, i.e. how much the trust fund balance rose / total FICA payments

There's currently $2.7T sitting in the SSTF, for the General Fund to pay these bonds off as per the Greenspan Deal of 1986 has been framed as an incipient crisis by the right.

They think any tax rise is a crisis though, so there's that.

I thought internal debt was comprised of borrowing from things like the trust fund, intergovernmental "debt". The fund would get paid interest like any lender, except that the US is such a safe haven, that SSTF would get low interest in return for the AAA rating from the agencies (which I assumed was the only kind of transaction they'd be allowed to be involved in).

I still remember Reagan flipping the bird at student protesters at UC Berkeley during a Regents meeting. Maybe Nancy was blowing Frank Sinatra somewhere, but I still thought that was cool.

Bellingham Bill says

There's currently $2.7T sitting in the SSTF, for the General Fund to pay these bonds off as per the Greenspan Deal of 1986 has been framed as an incipient crisis by the right.

There is zero sitting in the the SSTF. There are 2.7T bits of paper saying IOU. Whether it's an incipient crises depends on how much people, especially foreign governments, are willing to buy tbills in the future. The Fed has soaked up 2.4T worth of tbills to keep the rate down but that can't go on forever. The most likely scenario is IRA's will be forced to put money into tbills. It's already started with Obama's mhRA.

FUCK! This means my trickle down voodoo economics check will come out of the SS trust fund. Some of that is my money.

bob2356 says

There is zero sitting in the the SSTF.

assuming the Treasury loses its power to tax the US economy, yes.

otherwise SSA owns $2.7T of money-good treasury debt.

Bellingham Bill says

bob2356 says

There is zero sitting in the the SSTF.

assuming the Treasury loses its power to tax the US economy, yes.

otherwise SSA owns $2.7T of money-good treasury debt.

It's been 15 years since the last surplus years and that was an accounting trick. The one before that was 1969 then 1960. The treasury has long since lost the power to tax the economy above and beyond the cost of running the government. What you are talking about is trading inter agency debt for market debt. A lot easier said than done.

A nice read until this point:

"The IOUs in the trust fund are not marketable, and they have no monetary value. They are worthless!"

That is off-the-rails opinion, but there is no factual basis to it. Non-marketable debt has value. Lots of legitimate debts are not marketable. The author reveals himself to be an illegitimate spokesperson with dubious motives.

Blurtman says

That is off-the-rails opinion, but there is no factual basis to it. Non-marketable debt has value. Lots of legitimate debts are not marketable.

Non marketable debt has value only if the debter has assets to pay the debt.

bob2356 says

Non marketable debt has value only if the debter has assets to pay the debt

You're talking about US treasury securities. If and when those can't be redeemed, or when they have no value which would be when U.S. currency has no value, we have a much much much much much much bigger problem than seniors not receiving their benefits.

The sun might go out too, or an asteroid could take out the planet. We have much more real things to worry about, such as growing wealth inequality and global warming. But the right wing propaganda machine and the moronocracy (such as Ann Coulter) want you to believe that Social Security is a ponzi scheme. It is messed up that we account for payroll taxes as part of the revenue side of our annual budget, rather than having it in a "lock box" (as an accounting matter), and it is Reagan's fault along with a congress that was happy to have more money to spend while taxes stayed lower.

bob2356 says

Non marketable debt has value only if the debter has assets to pay the debt.

Why is the money there to pay off marketable US Treasuries, but not the special or non-marketable US Treasuries in the trust fund? The "money-is-gone" argument would be true as well for marketable US Treasuries, and all bonds, and is a ridiculous argument.