patrick.net

Yes, but you're buying the land under and around your house. That's what is so expensive.

Dam - I need to seriously increase my budget on my next car.

But in reality, the uninsulated shell of a house with no utilities doesn't cost much more than a typical car. Apples to apples please.

tovarichpeter says

Your house shouldn't cost more than your car

Actually, your car shouldn't cost almost as much as your house. It isn't the uninsulated shell that is so expensive in a house but all the things that make it comfortable--HVAC, plumbing, etc., that are so cost intensive. In one of those Tiny Homes stories it was pointed out that the costs of those same things is what made them so expensive per cubic foot. I remember a young friend of ours in 1966 wanted his mother, who had been widowed the year before and was then running the family shoe business making good money, to buy a new Chrysler New Yorker. She could afford it and went ahead and bought it but she said she just couldn't imagine paying $6,000 ($44,000 in today's money) for a car because that's what they'd paid for their first house in 1946 ($77,000 today), a five room, one bath frame house with no amenities, so prices today are not so far out of line with earlier times.

tatupu70 says

Yes, but you're buying the land under and around your house. That's what is so expensive.

Depends on where you live.

zzyzzx says

Depends on where you live.

Not too much. If you have a 5000+ sq ft. mansion, then obviously the house itself is a larger % of the cost.

Ironman says

Notice the land price and the structure price for a 5100 sq. ft. home

Yep--so it backs up my original statement. Most of the value is in land in this case. Thanks for proving me correct.

This is probably very true if you are in Detroit.

Ironman says

No it doesn't, because you don't "buy" the land....

Of course you do, you idiot.

Tat, you don't buy land because the Gov taxes land.
You don't earn money, because the Gov taxes income.
You also don't own money, because the Gov taxes you when you spend it and steals value every year when you don't.
You don't own your body, b/c other people have patents on your genes, control your health care, shut down abortion providers and family planning services, tell you what you can ingest or smoke, etc.
You don't own anything.
If that depresses you, too bad. You can't even shoot yourself, b/c that is also prohibited.

Notice for the impaired: the above was a joke.

tatupu70 says

Yes, but you're buying the land under and around your house. That's what is so expensive.

Bull crap the county only apraises the lot at $42K that houses set on. The value in the land is when it's developed.

Tenpoundbass says

Bull crap the county only apraises the lot at $42K that houses set on. The value in the land is when it's developed.

Give me a zip and we can see what a vacant lot sells for--you could be right. I don't trust the country appraisals.

AdamCarollaFan says

 

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Comment 6

Mr. Rousseau makes his appearance at 4:47:

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Ironman says

Really???

So besides picking up your house and moving it to another location, you can do that with the land underneath it too??

Wow, amazing!!!

I think you need a refresher on what it means to "own" something. Mobility is NOT a requirement.

Ironman says

(what about mobile homes?)

When you own a mobile home in a trailer park, you pay rent to the landlord who owns the park. You can often make improvements to the land or the plot where your home sits, but stop making payments there and you lose your right to live there. The landlord makes the payments to the state for taxes, but you'd better believe that's a much lower payment than you'll pay in lease

Ironman says

Yep... exactly...

and when you own a home, you pay "rent" to the town (who is your landlord)...

No--if you don't understand the difference between owning and renting, you have no business posting anything to this website.

Just because you pay taxes on something doesn't negate ownership.

Tenpoundbass says

Bull crap the county only apraises the lot at $42K that houses set on. The value in the land is when it's developed.

Bullshit, the appraisal was from the county. If you look the location on Zillow you will see several smaller empty lots for sale for over $3 million. This is ocean front property and appears to be a highly desirable area, so the land is worth more than many of the houses put on it.

Ironman says

So, if you own the land, what's your last payment date when you own it free and clear and don't have to make any additional payments, just like your car, your boat, your RV, your flat screen TV......

Also, you can payoff your mortgage/house and own the structure free and clear (and move it if you like), what happens when you don't make your "tax/rent" payment to the town? Who owns it then?

Again, if you don't understand between renting something and owning something that is taxed, you have no business posting here.

Ironman says

You didn't answer the question, who owns your paid off house and land if you don't make the monthly payment to the town?

We can continue this discussion if you ever learn the difference. Until then, I'm done.

Ironman says

So, if you own the land, what's your last payment date when you own it free and clear and don't have to make any additional payments, just like your car, your boat, your RV, your flat screen TV......

Also, you can payoff your mortgage/house and own the structure free and clear (and move it if you like), what happens when you don't make your "tax/rent" payment to the town? Who owns it then?

Funny you mention cars and boats, last I checked, unless they are stored and not used you do indeed have to make a payment (in Florida to the County Tax Collector) to register them. It's just a tax not the government claiming ownership of them, just like your property taxes. If you don't pay to register you car and you drive it on public roads and you get caught you will be fined. Failure to pay could result in further civil penalties and possibly even jail time. Not paying taxes does incur penalties and the government doesn't take your land until after a period of non-compliance.

It's not like you pay property tax and don't get anything back. It's used for police, fireman, libraries, schools, roads, museums, parks, ... , things that most people consider important to modern civalizaiton.

Ironman says

Is that question too hard for you to answer?? Or are you just clueless, like with everything else you spew here?

No--I'm just not going to play your dumb games. Everyone else here understands the difference between renting and owning. Even if you have to pay taxes.

Cars shouldn't cost over 10 grand, 80% of the models available to the American consumer that is.

That other $20 grand goes to support their business model of Dealerships, Autoloans, and Salesman commisions.

Ironman says

So, if you own the land, what's your last payment date when you own it free and clear and don't have to make any additional payments, just like your car, your boat, your RV, your flat screen TV......

This question is nonsense. I pay taxes on my car each year as many people do. I would have to pay for a parking space for an RV too. As for a TV, who cares if you own a TV, but even that and similar posessions require you to pay rent for a place to put them.

Tenpoundbass says

Cars shouldn't cost over 10 grand,

If you weren't force-fed every convenience and power option as standard equipment, they'd probably cost $10K less. EVERY car except the very cheapest and smallest model in every brand is standard equipped with air-conditioning, power windows and door locks, most have cruise control. When you could still buy a full-size rear-wheel drive car in the 70's, you could go down a list of upgrades and check off the box--my mother's new '79 LTD had three options: AC, AM radio and 351 V-8. It could have had a whole host of additional add-ons that would have added another $2,000 to its $5,800 price. By the time they quit making Crown Vics some time in the 90's, every one that came off the line was equipped like a Lincoln from the 1960's used to be. That's why there was no more place for cars like Crown Vics and especially Mercurys which were really just rebadged Fords after 1978. Same with my '96 Roadmaster, it had everything standard--options were things like leather or sunroof.

Tenpoundbass says

Cars shouldn't cost over 10 grand, 80% of the models available to the American consumer that is.

That other $20 grand goes to support their business model of Dealerships, Autoloans, and Salesman commisions.

Sure cars could cost less, but also you're a little bit stuck on the inflation factor. 25K in 2016 is like 3800 in 1969.

Commissions and financing account for a small fraction of the price. I look at it in terms of supply and demand. A lot of people are willing to spend 275 to 500 a month on their car (not including insurance and gas). The car companies are competing to provide the best cars they can for that price.

marcus says

25K in 2016 is like 3800 in 1969.

If that were so, then your average car loan would only be 24 months instead of 72 months.

Look at all of the data folks, especially the NULLs.

Tenpoundbass says

If that were so, then your average car loan would only be 24 months instead of 72 months.

Actually the average car loan was 36 months for years. It wasn't until the mid-70's that the horrendous rate of inflation added $1,000 to the price of each car bewteen the end of 1973 and beginning of 1975 that loans began running for four years and have expanded ever since. In 1960, the least expensive Olds 98 cost $3,887 and had one of the most powerful engines in the industry. In 1970, it had increased to $4,451, which included as standard equipment a 370 HP 455 V-8, power steering and brakes. In 1980, its cost had risen 113% to $10,000 and that included a 150 HP 307 that could barely get out of its way and wasn't even rated for trailer towing, but it met every government emission and safety regulation. That's when we started having to pay out cars for 60 months.

Tenpoundbass says

and bought how many cars in 1969 ?

I traded a '63 Chevy SS convertible with a 327 for a '64 Pontiac Bonneville coupe with 25K miles on it.

anonymous says

And you were how old and bought how many cars in 1969 ?

I remember my dad thinking 48 month loans were a crazy idea.
P N Dr Lo R says

Tenpoundbass says

If that were so, then your average car loan would only be 24 months instead of 72 months.

Actually the average car loan was 36 months for years.

More people just paid cash for their cars as well. It was common for Kids working week end and summer jobs to save up and buy a car with cash after a Year.
It was considered imprudent to buy something you couldn't afford, and borrowing money is another form of ill-affordability. Not only did they not have enough qualified buyers for loans, there wasn't a lot of people willing to buy cars on a bank note. When the banks paid savers, people could save their money and have it go further by paying cash. Without supporting this whole layer of the economy that does nothing but leaches and sucks blood off of the consumer. Marketers, Investors and Bankers. Are killing innovation and competition, as they extinguish the small entrepreneur spirit in America before it can nurture into greater things.

Tenpoundbass says

I remember my dad thinking 48 month loans were a crazy idea.

That was probably back when an American car was already a piece of shit 48 months after buying it.

Tenpoundbass says

It was common for Kids working week end and summer jobs to save up and buy a car with cash after a Year.

What total bullshit. Not only was it not common, it never occurred, unless you were connected and had a ridiculously high paying job, like maybe a city garbage man, that could bring in maybe 10 to 12/hr in the 70s. If they worked all summer and a lot during the school year, maybe. But to suggest it was common ?

Hell no. More of your made up bullshit. Take from someone that's much older than you and was around back then.

marcus says

What total bullshit. Not only was it not common, it never occurred, unless you were connected and had a ridiculously high paying job, like maybe a city garbage man, that could bring in maybe 10 to 12/hr in the 70s. If they worked all summer and a lot during the school year, maybe. But to suggest it was common ?

We had a neighbor that saved up the $3700 in about two years of working while in School, and paid cash for a 77 Camaro.
And through out the years, many people who talk about the muscle cars from the 60's and 70's have said they paid cash for them when they bought them.
Banks weren't quick to loan money for a muscle car, and insurers wanted an arm and a leg to insure them with full coverage.

Even when I was 15 and got my first Short order greasy spoon kitchen job, working for Greeks. I got $175 a week, even that works out to over $8K for a kid living at home.
Of course I pissed it away on wine, women and song. I didn't have any bills, I could have saved up every cent I made and paid about 7 or 8 grand for a used bad ass Gold and Black Trans Am.
If I wanted to, I could have bought your average ecconomy range coupe for that much. I never did but my Dad sure always gave me crap for not taking advantage of the 80's high inflation rate banks were rewarding savers with. With earned interest, had I taken up the quest, I could have bought a touring edition new car.

You don't think that even if kids were making half what I was making at minimum wage in 82, and only making $75 a week. You don't think they could have bought a $3500 new car?

I'm not some kid that thinks life just started yesterday, I lived it.

I wasn't that prudent, but do you know who was?
The Jewish kids, ask a 60 year old Jew if he financed his first car at 16 or 17, or if he paid cash from working and saving money?

See that's anotherthing right there within its self. You were a loser if you weren't driving by the age 18.
Now people are blowing past 27 and being kicked off mom and dad's Obamacare insurance plan, and still don't have a drivers license.
What's up wid dat?

P N Dr Lo R says

In 1980, its cost had risen 113% to $10,000

Actually it was 83 it took a few years for the Ronie inflation to kick in.

Tenpoundbass says

Actually it was 83 it took a few years for the Ronie inflation to kick in.

The 1980 cost $10,193 against the 1970's at $4,793. By 1983, inflation had fallen to 3.3% from double digits in 1980 and 1981.